Is the attack on teldrassil really that unjustified?

[Mehrunes]

But thats wrong. The story didn't get changed at all. So the story in Aszuna happened before Stormheim. Your Nostradamus is wrong as well. What they said was that the intended LEVELING-path was Aszuna first. The scaling only changed were we could start leveling. Not the story itself.

How about you stop lying for once? Go ahead and pretend the story path and leveling path are completely separate all you want. But in that case the video you keep using as proof doesn't support your argument whatsoever. Because Blizzard hasn't mentioned what the intended story is or ever has been in that video. Or used the word story. At least in the time period you keep quoting. So you can't use it to claim that the story, intended or otherwise, started with Azsuna. Because they don't talk about story in there. Words, how do they work?

You can't have your cake and have it too. Which is what you're trying to to here. On one hand you're trying to push the narrative that the story path and leveling path are separate, so Blizzard talking about leveling path doesn't mean the story path changed because they haven't mentioned the story path. But on the other hand you're also trying to push the narrative that just because before the change they had a set leveling path, then the story path was also set - and remains that way to this day - despite them still not talking about the story in that video.

Either they are completely separate and them talking only about the leveling path means nothing to the story path, or they aren't separate and them talking about only leveling path still has repercussions for the story path. You don't get to arbitrarily choose when their remarks about only the leveling path mean something for the story path and when they don't.

Your argument is illogical and simply wrong.

Your Nostradamus is wrong as well. What they said was that the intended LEVELING-path was Aszuna first. The scaling only changed were we could start leveling. Not the story itself.

I'm not wrong just because you couldn't bother reading what I actually read. Because you're acting as if I didn't address this argument. Would you look at that, I already addressed this argument in what @Super Dickmann quoted in reply to you. Paragraphs 2-4.

Why do you think Azsuna is the zone were Khadgar is coming with us? It's his first impression of the Broken Isle as well as your PC. Why do you think 9 of 10 profession quests starts in Aszuna?

Because at some point they had a set zone order and didn't bother to change every mundane thing?

I don't give a fuck all about the story you guys discuss, but provided you with a source, which you said Tabrotar pulled out of his ass.

Then try to give a fuck about it, because context is a thing. The context is the story in Stormheim. Which disproves the claim that Azsuna happens before Stormheim, because if that was the case, Genn wouldn't repeatedly claim he doesn't know what Sylvanas is up to.

[Doffen]

Fantasy and reality often blur and meld together for some ppl here.

Yeah, it's not really comparable, though I get it, it's easy to just compare to real life. Next time we can compare WoW to Teletubbies as well. Lots of morally grey there. And better story.

[Primemrip]

hmm you're right friend that's exactly the same thing

perhaps the real monsters were all of us

It's almost like the winners of war right history.

[Doffen]

Then try to give a fuck about it, because context is a thing. The context is the story in Stormheim. Which disproves the claim that Azsuna happens before Stormheim, because if that was the case, Genn wouldn't repeatedly claim he doesn't know what Sylvanas is up to.

You talk about context is me talking about environment and economics, no clue. So spare me.

Because at some point they had a set zone order and didn't bother to change every mundane thing?

That's what I wrote though, if you read it. The story was already done, in zones, quests etc. The scaling came after, wich they said.

Words, how do they work?

I should ask someone else, because you have the same issue as me I guess.

[Primemrip]

Fantasy and reality often blur and meld together for some ppl here.

Ironically people in this thread that hate Sylvannas probably think America was justified in starting the wars in the middle east and were doing it for the right reasons.

A war is always unjust in the defeated's eyes and the history books will always read as though the victor was in the right for doing what they did.

[Minikin]

Yeah, it's not really comparable, though I get it, it's easy to just compare to real life. Next time we can compare WoW to Teletubbies as well. Lots of morally grey there. And better story.

-horde invades darkshore
-emergency UN council called to deal with the threat of sylvannas
-anduin flies unicorns to Thailand to save lost lacrosse team from antartica
-NATO meeting to discuss goblin and gnome military training in the Pacific. Gnomes and goblins join to form their own faction.
-gun violence at goldshire lions pride inn. Many casualties.
-global warming causes massive fucking sword to appear in silithus
- blizzard: new patch: the Geneva convention can be found at every warfront now. Copies mailed to players to keep in their backpacks.

[Dartz1979]

ignores all the bad shit sylvanas is doing. The state of the horde

Sylvanas is a super sexy waifu warchief though can't ask for anyone better.. who else can we have there aint no more stronger females left.

[Doffen]

-horde invades darkshore
-emergency UN council called to deal with the threat of sylvannas
-anduin flies unicorns to Thailand to save lost lacrosse team from antartica
-NATO meeting to discuss goblin and gnome military training in the Pacific. Gnomes and goblins join to form their own faction.
-gun violence at goldshire lions pride inn. Many casualties.
-global warming causes massive fucking sword to appear in silithus
- blizzard: new patch: the Geneva convention can be found at every warfront now. Copies mailed to players to keep in their backpacks.

Thats a good story, I like it

[Mehrunes]

Does the list actually go on though? At taurajo the allaince let the civs go so that doesn’t fit on a list though the orc one does.

And they cared so much they let them go directly into Quillboar territory where they all got killed.

Stop perpetuating this lie. The quest texts makes it very clear that Greymane knew nothing about Eyir until the very last minute. The quests are there for anyone to do, you thinking you can bend the truth is an insult to everyone.

Is it though? Like 90% of regular Alliance posters also spread this lie. And many, many other common lies that are easily disproved by actual quest text and other easily found canon lore *cough* Alliance is never the aggressor *cough* It'd be weird if they were all constantly insulting each other.

That's my take as well. As a military target, sure, Teldrassil is an Alliance stronghold. As a way to deny Azerite when the thing is sprouting all over the world? Yeah, fat chance. And hoping the Alliance just gives up if you kill Malfurion? Say what? Hasn't Sylvanas learned from the last time she killed an important leader of a nation she attacked?

You mean Liam? Worgen did give up. Before Cataclysm ended Gilneas was already officially abandoned. And then Forsaken blockaded it til Legion.

[Minikin]

Ironically people in this thread that hate Sylvannas probably think America was justified in starting the wars in the middle east and were doing it for the right reasons.

A war is always unjust in the defeated's eyes and the history books will always read as though the victor was in the right for doing what they did.

Lol I am trying to imagine a christie golden history book.

All I can come up with is, Anduin beautiful Anduin, Sylvannas' red eyes.

Narrated by Chris metzen

[Cucultlan]

Doesn't matter who would get troops in faster, considering the Alliance had already man troops on the continent as well. The capitol was lost, orcs BTFO as well as trolls. Taurens had barely any reason to fight as well since Baine was anyways more for peace. Only ones who could be dangerous were the Forsaken, besides that nothing. Alliance had the chance to dismantle the Horde, just as Jaina said. Obviously Blizzard can't push that narrative since it would mean the end of WoW as it is.

it does matters because at i said we dont know who much troops were there and to do the back up and until garrosh fight who much they lost of them, but because it doesnt fits you it doesnt matter ok.
same can be said of garrosh horde since he rolf stomped the alliance since cata but the devs didnt let the alliance be disvanded so i can do that argument too.

so i will not respond another of your replies since its like talking to a wall since you are so bias but w/e

[Doffen]

Lol I am trying to imagine a christie golden history book.

All I can come up with is, Anduin beautiful Anduin, Sylvannas' red eyes.

Narrated by Chris metzen

I got Before the Storm audiobook, man that Manduin's voice is melting me.

[Mehrunes]

Do you really think the warcheif with the backing of all of the horde is the same as one general in command because every one else is dead or a zombie with litteraly no one backing him but the men he has with him?

Garithos had support of the Alliance member states. Even Dwarves and Gnomes sent support to him.

He didn't know anything about Eyir, he did know she was there to steal power.

It's obvious at this point that the Horde wants something in Skold-Ashil. Unfortunately we still don't know what they're after.

We think the secret lies with the shieldmaidens here, so we need to find out more about them. Some early scouting revealed that they have a method of carving their shields to tell their stories.

Go into the city and find as many of these shields as you can. With luck, we will find what Sylvanas seeks.

Explain this then. If Alliance knew about Sylvanas being after some power at the very start of Stormheim, why does Lorna admit they still don't know what Forsaken are after in Skold-Ashil, the last subzone of Stormheim related to Sylvanas vs Genn storyline?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And they cared so much they let them go directly into Quillboar territory where they all got killed.

and???? the alliance force would have no reason to know how the cows and boars saw each other and would have no reason to know they would run into the boars and all die. the alliance let the civ's go they didn't stop to murder them like who easily could have it was in no way shape or form a warcrime.

- - - Updated - - -

Garithos had support of the Alliance member states. Even Dwarves and Gnomes sent support to him.

they sent support to the only guy not a zombie they didn't support him in the same way all of the horde marched with garrosh to thereamore or backed garrosh for all of cata.

[Minikin]

Garithos had support of the Alliance member states. Even Dwarves and Gnomes sent support to him.






Explain this then. If Alliance knew about Sylvanas being after some power at the very start of Stormheim, why does Lorna admit they still don't know what Forsaken are after in Skold-Ashil, the last subzone of Stormheim related to Sylvanas vs Genn storyline?

I can't recall complete (feel free to correct if iam wrong) but don't they find out she's trying to get valkyr in the quest after this one? That's in skold ashil itself no?

Like, they know she is after something but don't find out exactly what until skold ashil sequence. Where those statue shield maidens are in stormheim, by the village.

[Doffen]

Explain this then. If Alliance knew about Sylvanas being after some power at the very start of Stormheim, why does Lorna admit they still don't know what Forsaken are after in Skold-Ashil, the last subzone of Stormheim related to Sylvanas vs Genn storyline?

This is where I agree with you. Because they didn't know. They only knew she was in Stormheim. But how did they know she was there, or on her way there? There is nothing else ingame or outside the game except that one quest in Aszuna that could tell. Explain that then? How did they know? Context right?

Why do you think people go with that explanation? How can the alliance only players know there is another quest for Horde with another twist on the story? If you only play Horde, you wouldn't know the Alliance got a quest with intel, wich the Worgen NPC himself tell us that is it when we deliver it. You have done both sides yourself right?

You can blame blizz for that misunderstanding, if there is one.

[Jastall]

And they cared so much they let them go directly into Quillboar territory where they all got killed.




Is it though? Like 90% of regular Alliance posters also spread this lie. And many, many other common lies that are easily disproved by actual quest text and other easily found canon lore *cough* Alliance is never the aggressor *cough* It'd be weird if they were all constantly insulting each other.




You mean Liam? Worgen did give up. Before Cataclysm ended Gilneas was already officially abandoned. And then Forsaken blockaded it til Legion.

Because the place was getting overrun by feral Worgen who forced the Forsaken out as well. Killing Liam certainly did nothing to break the spirits of the Gilneans and earned her a most bitter enemy.

[Mehrunes]

There's more money in war than there ever is in peacetime.

If you can sell to both sides of the war? Sure. Gallywix can't in this case, being one of Horde's leaders. Peace would open half the world's markets to him.

Operating in neutral territory, around the site where the planet just got fucking stabbed by a Titan, where they have just as much right to be as the Horde do.

Just because Silithus is neutral doesn't mean Horde mining camp is neutral. Just like Vanilla Alliance camp in Silithus was not neutral. Horde camp is Horde territory. It really boggles my mind how Alliance-leaning posters on this forum struggle with this preschool level concept.

Sorry, that's not a justification to kill them on sight, and if you do the faction the spies were a part of have every right to retaliate against you for it.

That they have a right to retaliate you does not change they instigated the conflict in the first place.

This is silly. A foreign power comes up to see what another foreign power is doing in a neutral region, therefore it's perfectly okay to murder those agents on sight? The miners were hostile and attacking anyone that even came up to their operation.

Horde camp isn't neutral region. And Silithus being a neutral region is nothing more than a game term. It's not neutral in a political term. It's not a neutral zone, it's not a neutral territory and it most certainly is not a neutral state. It's an area that belongs to neither the Horde nor the Alliance. In general. Because like with most neutral zones in WoW, Alliance and the Horde still set up camps in there. Which they can defend. Any time some Horde player walks into Alliance camp in Desolace and is attacked by the guards, is the Alliance starting a war? No. Because the camp belongs to them and the Horde player has no right to enter it as they please.

An analogy that may help brilliant Alliance minds grasp this completely uncomplicated matter. If I park my car in a public parking, is a lunatic Alliance player entitled to get into just because the parking as a whole is public? No, because that'd be as lunatic as the hypothetical Alliance player.

Just as it was said many many times before Sylvanas didn´t want any freethinking Forsaken all she wants are mindless yes sayer and bootlicker and anyone with even a spark of free will will be disposed off.

See Koltira and what happend to him after he didn´t do as she told him.

You mean after he betrayed the Forsaken by making an unauthorized truce with the enemy, which ran contrary to his orders and which cost Forsaken lives when Alliance decided to suddenly break that truce? Which, by the way, he was capable of choosing to do in the first place precisely because he had free will?

Yeah, no. Free will does not equal lawlessness. I'm still not sure why Alliance posters have trouble fathoming this either.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree then. To me they are acting totally in character.

Given what she did he is well within his rights to hold her hostage and feed her hozen poo for the rest of her days lol. Genn is not Anduin. And ull notice that Rogers has exactly the same motivation as Genn but less authority. Rogers lost her family in South shore to sylvannas.

Yeah, no. Rogers' family died in the Second War attack on Southshore. She says her parents are buried there. After Forsaken attacked it there was no human left to bury anyone and Forsaken sure as hell would not bother with it either.

[Bigby]

Wait. There’s lore attached to Ashran? I thought the place was just a thinly-veiled excuse to try large scale PvP again. Zero story repercussions, like Tol Barad and Wintergrasp before it.

I mean, personal opinion here, but “you attacked at Ashran” carries about as much story weight to me as “you challenged me to a pie eating contest.”

Doesn't change that it happened. Horde fans can't just move the goal posts because they can't accept their pet faction is the aggressor again.

[Leodric]

it does matters because at i said we dont know who much troops were there and to do the back up and until garrosh fight who much they lost of them, but because it doesnt fits you it doesnt matter ok.
same can be said of garrosh horde since he rolf stomped the alliance since cata but the devs didnt let the alliance be disvanded so i can do that argument too.

so i will not respond another of your replies since its like talking to a wall since...

Dunno man, they got entirly BTFO by us the players, garrosh himself before that + the Alliance. I don't know how much more you need to get handed on a silver plate to figure out the Alliance let the Horde live and could have ended them there.

you are so bias but w/e

That's amusingly ironic