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  1. #1
    Brewmaster Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Any particular reason Azerite gear doesn't have secondary stats?

    Way to go Blizzard fucking over specs that heavily rely on secondaries. I play an affliction lock, for example, and according to simcraft every secondary stat is worth over twice as much DPS per point than Intellect. Compare that to my rogue alt, where Agility sims higher than all secondaries. This is gonna really hurt a lot of specs.
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  2. #2
    Brewmaster Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    You do realise they are heavily reducing the power of secondary stats in BFA?
    There always has been and always will be specs that rely far more on secondaries than others.
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  3. #3
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    because of azerite traits.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  4. #4
    If they had both secondary and the traits it'd give us "too much power" in a single piece of gear.

    Gotta balance is out somehow ;0
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  5. #5
    Brewmaster Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    because of azerite traits.
    ...that's not a good reason. Artifact weapons and legendaries still had secondary stats despite having other effects, so as to, ya know, not fuck over specs that rely on them heavily.
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  6. #6
    Brewmaster Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sastank View Post
    If they had both secondary and the traits it'd give us "too much power" in a single piece of gear.

    Gotta balance is out somehow ;0
    See my last post
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    You do realise they are heavily reducing the power of secondary stats in BFA?
    Lowering the ease of getting secondary stats doesn't make them less valuable it just makes it much more challenging to stack them. The lack of secondary stats mostly crit or haste is why so many classes are playing so much slower in the beta/ptr than they do on live now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Your primary will ALWAYS be better in BFA, according to Blizzard anyways
    They aren't better, they are just acquired easier.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wvvtayy View Post
    ...that's not a good reason. Artifact weapons and legendaries still had secondary stats despite having other effects, so as to, ya know, not fuck over specs that rely on them heavily.
    Obviously they will factor the power of abilities into being in a certain window of a secondary stat. It will certainly play slower, but a class that wan'ts haste isn't going to be left for dead for something that wants strength just for kicks.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sastank View Post
    If they had both secondary and the traits it'd give us "too much power" in a single piece of gear.

    Gotta balance is out somehow ;0
    It is also because they want people swapping those items based on the traits on them. Having multiple trait options to balance on top of tossing stats on them would make that significantly harder on the Devs and the players side. The only possible way it could work would be if say a chest piece always had crit/mastery or something like that limiting variables to some degree.
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  9. #9
    They wanted it to be easy so you only care about the traits and not the stats as well.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    No I mean Blizzard have said secondary stats won't literally be as powerful as they are on live, of course this might change but as it stands they have said that having more strength or intellect will always be the best choice
    Point to point secondary stats are going to be far more powerful in many cases, there are just less of them and they are harder to come by. It is their last ditch effort to make people pick item level over stats.
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  11. #11
    Brewmaster Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Point to point secondary stats are going to be far more powerful in many cases, there are just less of them and they are harder to come by. It is their last ditch effort to make people pick item level over stats.
    So how about instead of fucking people over with slow feeling classes, why can't they just, ya know... BALANCE the secondary stats?
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Wvvtayy View Post
    Way to go Blizzard fucking over specs that heavily rely on secondaries. I play an affliction lock, for example, and according to simcraft every secondary stat is worth over twice as much DPS per point than Intellect. Compare that to my rogue alt, where Agility sims higher than all secondaries. This is gonna really hurt a lot of specs.
    That's not how the dps balancing works.

    If a spec does too much damage it gets nerfed. If it does too little it gets buffed. It doesn't matter one bit if some pieces don't have secondary stats. They'll just balance dps output for the given gear.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wvvtayy View Post
    So how about instead of fucking people over with slow feeling classes, why can't they just, ya know... BALANCE the secondary stats?
    They have never been able to do that though, certainly not across all specs. They might get some correct but others are so out of control they just end up changing how much of a raw stat is needed for a percentage like they did 2 weeks into ToV.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Not in BFA there won't be
    Well to be fair they are still there. They are just total trash until 8.1

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    They wanted it to be easy so you only care about the traits and not the stats as well.
    They really just want it to be ilvl is what matters most. Really thats about it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wvvtayy View Post
    Way to go Blizzard fucking over specs that heavily rely on secondaries. I play an affliction lock, for example, and according to simcraft every secondary stat is worth over twice as much DPS per point than Intellect. Compare that to my rogue alt, where Agility sims higher than all secondaries. This is gonna really hurt a lot of specs.
    because we are going through a stat squish. to make the answer as simple as possible. as the inflation kicks in during the expansion those will probably reappear again?

  16. #16
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wvvtayy View Post
    ...that's not a good reason. Artifact weapons and legendaries still had secondary stats despite having other effects, so as to, ya know, not fuck over specs that rely on them heavily.
    unlike artifacts and legendaries you arent gonna keep azerite gear for the entire expansion.

    they want you to change the gear depending on ilvl and what traits you need, that'd be harder with secondaries.


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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    They really just want it to be ilvl is what matters most. Really thats about it.
    That does not preclude them from using secondary stats on items, they kept them on other gear as well and azerite traits alreay scale with iLvl, so the effect would be the same as on other pieces. The only difference is that they didn't want people to be confused by secondary stats and traits at the same time because they probably think they already live in an idiocracy-like world.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    That does not preclude them from using secondary stats on items, they kept them on other gear as well and azerite traits alreay scale with iLvl, so the effect would be the same as on other pieces. The only difference is that they didn't want people to be confused by secondary stats and traits at the same time because they probably think they already live in an idiocracy-like world.
    It doesnt HAVE to. But it is. What is in the end IS what matters. They just decided to put all the weight on primary stats. It is just how it is. It is possible in later tiers they will add some on to make them "better" than before outside of item level but thats it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    because we are going through a stat squish. to make the answer as simple as possible. as the inflation kicks in during the expansion those will probably reappear again?
    That answer would only be correct if gear still worked on the vanilla basis of %based stats like 2% crit chance. We have ratings for this exact reason, every level you gain requires higher rating to reach the same % levels, this is what stops people wearing the same gear from expansion to expansion, it has absolutely nothing to do with a stat squish, we have had squishes before and nothing changed, the squish is because of ilvls once again being over inflated too quickly.

    It is entirely because of what Haidaes and Yggdrasil said, they want traits and ilvl to be the deciding factor when you compare gear upgrades, too often you get an "upgrade" ilvl wise but because of secondaries it is actually a downgrade that you only know by math calculations which they deem as not fun for the majority of people, and while i agree with them on it i most definitely do not agree with their solution of just removing the stats completely.

    @Haidaes @Yggdrasil

    You're both correct, it is entirely due to ilvl and traits, think of it like NLC relic paths, some ilvl upgrades were downgrades because of the traits, the same thing happens with gear a 320 ilvl item with 2 of your worst secondaries is probably a downgrade to a 315 ilvl with your 2 best stats.

    Now for a bfa example, Hypothetically my bis stats are Haste Mastery, My worst are Versatility and Crit. Azerite has secondaries.
    1 azerite chest has my BIS trait but has my 2 worst stats on it
    1 azerite chest has a pretty poor trait but has my 2 best stats on it

    What one do i go for? the one that math tells me to pick, that is boring and defeats the purpose of the azerite traits being completely personal choice, this is why they do not have secondaries, they want it to be as easy as possible to determine an upgrade

    Ilvl upgrade? No - Better trait? yes - Pick it!
    Ilvl upgrade? Yes - Better trait?yes - Pick it!
    Ilvl upgrade? Yes - Better trait?no - Make a decision based on what one has the best overall traits
    Ilvl upgrade? No - Better trait? no - Vendor

    In these examples non ilvl upgrades are the same ilvls
    It's not a perfect system but throw in secondary stats into it and you can imagine how more mathy it becomes, in their ilvl and trait only option 3 out of the 4 scenarios make it easier for you to personally work out what is best for you without having to sim it and use math, that is what they are aiming for as they've said in a couple interviews, again i disagree with the removal of secondaries but that is what their thought process is.

    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    3 words: HoA
    This is also a pretty valid part of it, the necklace does in fairness give pretty hefty boosts to secondaries, it retains the stats whilst removing the secondaries issue from actual gearing upgrade choices, i never even gave this a thought because you are so used to it being on the gear itself.
    Last edited by mmoc1448478633; 2018-07-13 at 09:41 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wvvtayy View Post
    See my last post
    Why? What you say or think doesn't influence or change the reasoning moving forward from expac or content update to update? Comparing what we had in Legion has no relevancy in what we get or have in BfA. Things change. They change for various reasons. Accept it and move on.
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