is blizzard serious about shadow priest on beta or is it a joke?

[Bigbazz]

he's right though

He's not right at all, it's the kind of response you get when your class isn't the best overall spec in the game so therefor it must obviously be garbage. While I was playing I played with arguably one of the best shadow priests in the world, I'm sure he'd have plenty to moan about to but his performance was still crushing and dominant, the logs for the class over legion also show clearly that it was very strong without having to highlight the hilarious instances (like in EN).

My SP buddy is rerolling lock in BFA, but that's another matter. In Legion Shadows had nothing to complain about when you look at the big picture, but if you're in your own little closed loop circuit of shadow priest of course you're sensitive to issues, but you're deaf to how those issues compare relatively when looking at all classes as a whole and considering their issues too.

So like I said, he's not right at all. For sure you have something to whine about for BFA, but Shadow was amazing for Legion.

[Deleted]

My SP buddy is rerolling lock in BFA, but that's another matter. In Legion Shadows had nothing to complain about when you look at the big picture, but if you're in your own little closed loop circuit of shadow priest of course you're sensitive to issues, but you're deaf to how those issues compare relatively when looking at all classes as a whole and considering their issues too.

So what is the big picture then? because to me reading your post it seems like you're the one in a little closed loop only looking at raid numbers performance whilst completely skipping over how poorly the class played in all other aspects of the game.

[Rhaxus]

He's not right at all, it's the kind of response you get when your class isn't the best overall spec in the game so therefor it must obviously be garbage. While I was playing I played with arguably one of the best shadow priests in the world, I'm sure he'd have plenty to moan about to but his performance was still crushing and dominant, the logs for the class over legion also show clearly that it was very strong without having to highlight the hilarious instances (like in EN).

My SP buddy is rerolling lock in BFA, but that's another matter. In Legion Shadows had nothing to complain about when you look at the big picture, but if you're in your own little closed loop circuit of shadow priest of course you're sensitive to issues, but you're deaf to how those issues compare relatively when looking at all classes as a whole and considering their issues too.

So like I said, he's not right at all. For sure you have something to whine about for BFA, but Shadow was amazing for Legion.

so, because your spriest friend, whos probably completely decked out in gear is strong at 1 aspect of the game, everything else we say is irrelevant? spriest was shit in open world, lacking aoe, hot garbage at m+ below 20 and even then not taken, because why would it, needed at least 1 minute of ramp to get into gear and then a prolonged execute phase to really shine, while being incredibly haste-focused as to not benefit from any gear that didn't have haste on it.

fyi, i play almost all classes and i am certainly not blind to their problems, but shadow is so egregiously shit designed as the only dps spec priest have access to, that it is almost insulting.
nobody cares that spriest was strong in raids because of surrender to madness, everyone here cares that spriest is completely borked and only gets weird bandaid fixes that solve nothing and just confound the real issues with new ones created by those fixes.

just look at bfa: players actually want to drop out of voidform again as fast as possible just to cast Voiderruption again in aoe.

[Cytraz]

Then compare Shadow and Aff on Portal Keeper and Immonar. Those highlight the problem. Despite being comparable on other bosses, mechanics fuck over Shadow far more. This is not about rankings. It's a design issue, which is obvious to anyone that has raided on it...

But, unsurprisingly, it's mr fresh 110 talking shit again

It still doesnt invalidate anything I said, when the post I quoted said this: "Terrible AoE, terrible burst damage, hideous ramp-up time on damage, very little mobility, no cooldowns...Spriest was garbage."

And believe me when I say I have achieved much more than you ever will in WoW. The fact is that overall, Shadow Priests were among the best specs overall in Legion. Then you have a few bosses where Shadow Priests werent great. Then you have other bosses where Shadow Priests were slaying everything DPS-wise.

You're just looking for a reason to bash on your own class to make you feel better about yourself. Fact is, you are most likely a below average player, making you do below average DPS, when you could have (and should have based on warcraftlogs) performed way better throughout Legion. But since you're unable to identify your own mistakes, you're also unable to become a better player. So you bash your own class to make you feel better about your below average performance.

How am I doing so far?

[Excessu]

Most classes can't take on more than 1 mob at a time.
In fact this is the case at the beginning of every Expansion. Nothing new. You're just used to being overgeared in Legion plowing through mobs.

The spec is fine, you're complaining about nothing. The core of the spec is there (minus SWeath) and plays exactly the same. The biggest issue is Void Form and that is hardly breaking the spec as you and lots of people are suggesting.

If you don't like it, you can reroll and complain on that classes forums about the very same thing.

have u tried boomkin leveling?

[Bigbazz]

So what is the big picture then? because to me reading your post it seems like you're the one in a little closed loop only looking at raid numbers performance whilst completely skipping over how poorly the class played in all other aspects of the game.

What, because I'm considering that other classes have problems too and that calling one of the most valuable and high performing specs of the expansion "garbage" is unreasonable? Every spec has issues, every player of every spec has concerns and frustrations about their specs. I'm sorry but having concerns and frustrations or subjective differences in taste/desires doesn't equate to an objectively strong/valuable spec being "garbage".

so, because your spriest friend, whos probably completely decked out in gear is strong at 1 aspect of the game, everything else we say is irrelevant? spriest was shit in open world, lacking aoe, hot garbage at m+ below 20 and even then not taken, because why would it, needed at least 1 minute of ramp to get into gear and then a prolonged execute phase to really shine, while being incredibly haste-focused as to not benefit from any gear that didn't have haste on it.

fyi, i play almost all classes and i am certainly not blind to their problems, but shadow is so egregiously shit designed as the only dps spec priest have access to, that it is almost insulting.
nobody cares that spriest was strong in raids because of surrender to madness, everyone here cares that spriest is completely borked and only gets weird bandaid fixes that solve nothing and just confound the real issues with new ones created by those fixes.

just look at bfa: players actually want to drop out of voidform again as fast as possible just to cast Voiderruption again in aoe.

Way to miss the point and take it out of context. Either way see above, every spec has issues that they too feel are equally valid. As for BFA that's a different matter entirely, Legion is history and we know what happened in history. History shows Shadow in Legion had a massive showing, it was probably one of the best expansions for the spec in terms of highlighted performance in WoW history, and when you're complaining if you do it without considering the issues, concerns/frustrations and performance of other specs all from a relative point of view you're blind.

Ya kno go tell the Survival Hunters and Outlaw Rogues just how bad your spec was in Legion.

[Deleted]

What, because I'm considering that other classes have problems too and that calling one of the most valuable and high performing specs of the expansion "garbage" is unreasonable? Every spec has issues, every player of every spec has concerns and frustrations about their specs. I'm sorry but having concerns and frustrations or subjective differences in taste/desires doesn't equate to an objectively strong/valuable spec being "garbage".

Ok so i am taking it your "bigger picture" is in comparison to other classes then? If that is the case could you enlighten me what parts of what he said was wrong in comparison to other classes?

• What class had less mobility than spriests in legion? I find myself lagging behind even death knights in dungeons when people just plow through and i am literally going out of mana spamming my only mobility option i have and still struggling to keep up.
• What class had worse aoe than spriests in legion? We didn't have anything other than void eruption after it was given a massive band aid of an extra 1050% damage added on to its damage to make it do 1200% spell damage, yes a one thousand and 50 percent damage increase.
• What class had more ramp up time than spriests in legion? We required 40+ stacks of voidform to start doing competitive damage of other classes.
• What class had worse or less cooldowns than spriests in legion?

What part of what he said was wrong exactly?
If shadow priests were so strong in legion why were they omitted from both high and low m+ keys to be the lowest participating dps spec?
If shadow priests were so strong in legion why were they the number 1 target for every single melee in the game because they knew they were so easily killable?
If shadow priests were so strong in legion why are they the only class that requires external help from their team in pvp to function in arenas?

[Bigbazz]

Ok so i am taking it your "bigger picture" is in comparison to other classes then? If that is the case could you enlighten me what parts of what he said was wrong in comparison to other classes?

• What class had less mobility than spriests in legion? I find myself lagging behind even death knights in dungeons when people just plow through and i am literally going out of mana spamming my only mobility option i have and still struggling to keep up.
• What class had worse aoe than spriests in legion? We didn't have anything other than void eruption after it was given a massive band aid of an extra 1050% damage added on to its damage to make it do 1200% spell damage, yes a one thousand and 50 percent damage increase.
• What class had more ramp up time than spriests in legion? We required 40+ stacks of voidform to start doing competitive damage of other classes.
• What class had worse or less cooldowns than spriests in legion?

What part of what he said was wrong exactly?
If shadow priests were so strong in legion why were they omitted from both high and low m+ keys to be the lowest participating dps spec?
If shadow priests were so strong in legion why were they the number 1 target for every single melee in the game because they knew they were so easily killable?
If shadow priests were so strong in legion why are they the only class that requires external help from their team in pvp to function in arenas?

You know what you're right, SP's were complete garbage in Legion. I'm sorry for the 2 years of suffering you had to go through.

[Onyd]

Yep, I'm sure that's Blizzard's goal as a game company- to frustrate their customers until they stop giving them money. That's the kind of business model I'd expect from a company which has been around for nearly three decades with several highly successful franchises. I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the spec's identities being hard to pin down and every player having a different idea in their head of what the optimal and perfect shadow/feral/ele playstyle looks like.

You've cracked the code.

You have quite the attitude there, son. I like it.

[Deleted]

You know what you're right, SP's were complete garbage in Legion. I'm sorry for the 2 years of suffering you had to go through.

Answer the question.

[Bigbazz]

Answer the question.

I'm not answering the question because it completely misses the point of what I was saying earlier, maybe you should address my posts first? You're posting from the perspective of "me me me" and blowing your issues out of proportion. If my buddy SP heared some of the stuff you're saying he would literally tell you to L2P, like I already said I'm sure he has concerns about SP too (especially in BFA since he's rerolling after playing SP forever) but none of these were issues that stopped him from performing at an exceptional level, even in relation to most other classes.

You're ignoring all of the good points of the spec, ignoring all of the issues that other specs in the game have and just focussing on "poor old me" by shouting about the issues you have. Who cares what the individual issues are when it's the sum of all the parts that matters, especially when comparing relatively to other specs. If you think Shadow Priest was garbage in Legion then I struggle to see you as anything other than a garbage player stuck in a closed loop of self pity.

[Deleted]

@Bigbazz If you cannot answer the question how can you say he is wrong? I am not ignoring anything, you blatantly stated he was wrong for saying shadow priest had terrible aoe, terrible mobility, huge ramp up times and terrible cooldowns. I am asking you to back up that claim and explain to me how he is wrong.

You then stated that he is not looking at the bigger picture of other classes, i have asked you to give me an example of a class that has worse aspects than spriest in any of the categories you are saying that he was wrong on. You are now refusing to back up your claims because you were talking nonsense.

You're the one who said he is wrong, prove it, tell me how he is wrong, stop backtracking and running away from the question.

Since being asked to back up your claims you have made 2 posts avoiding the question and resorted to sarcasm and "oh you must be bad at the class", put up or shut up, tell me why he is wrong.

[Bigbazz]

@Bigbazz If you cannot answer the question how can you say he is wrong? I am not ignoring anything, you blatantly stated he was wrong for saying shadow priest had terrible aoe, terrible mobility, huge ramp up times and terrible cooldowns. I am asking you to back up that claim and explain to me how he is wrong.

You then stated that he is not looking at the bigger picture of other classes, i have asked you to give me an example of a class that has worse aspects than spriest in any of the categories you are saying that he was wrong on. You are now refusing to back up your claims because you were talking nonsense.

You're the one who said he is wrong, prove it, tell me how he is wrong, stop backtracking and running away from the question.

Since being asked to back up your claims you have made 2 posts avoiding the question and resorted to sarcasm and "oh you must be bad at the class", put up or shut up, tell me why he is wrong.

He's wrong because he's focusing inward and highlighting issues without looking at the big picture of how it all pieces together. Your singular issues and gripes may be valid bit it's disingenuous to ignore the reality of the overall performance in relation to others by instead swiping it aside and focusing on "oh look how bad this is" as if it gives any validity to what you're saying.

Like I've said and like you seem to clearly not want to hear, every spec in the game has genuine issues that contribute to the overall performance of their spec in various situations, a lot of those specs perform considerably worse than Shadow Priest, which is objectively (as can be seen by objective data tracking like combat parses) a very strong spec that has for Legion had a very strong showing.

Stop asking me to tell you that your issues don't exist when I don't even doubt you have issues. It's like someone who wins a race and then spends the celebration period complaining about how bad everything was, completely ignorant to the fact that all of the other competitors have issues too (that may be different but equally problematic from their perspective) combined with the fact that they are also losing to you.

[Rhaxus]

History shows Shadow in Legion had a massive showing, it was probably one of the best expansions for the spec in terms of highlighted performance in WoW history

show me all those m+ spriests with their massive numers and great performace in the MDI. we know spriest was good in mythic raiding, but the design behind it was shit for everything else in the game, maybe save pvp. survival and outlaw have alternate specs to choose for dps, priest doesn't so their problems are way more serious in comparison. survival shit? go mm or bm; outlaw garbage? there is sub and assa for you

[Deleted]

@Bigbazz Again, you seem to be confusing me with someone who is arguing that spriest raid damage was not good, there hasn't been a single instance here where i have said this, literally every post in this thread to you has been asking you to justify why this player is wrong when he says spriests have terrible aoe, mobility, burst damage, huge ramp up times and terrible cooldowns. He is not wrong in a single thing he said, spriests do have the worst aoe, the worst cooldowns, the worst mobility and the worst ramp up. But because they do good (not even the best) overall dps in raids that is totally fine?

Each and every time your reasoning is that other classes have problems and your justification is that spriests do good in raids, so it's fine they suck at everything else how is this justifiable? No other class does so poorly in every other content of the game and no class does THAT poorly in raid content that they are excluded from outside of high end progression raiding.
Hey joe the pvper, sorry your class sucks in the content you play but your class does pretty good damage in content you don't play.
Hey bob the dungeoneer, sorry your class sucks in the content you play but your class does pretty good damage in content you don't play.
Hey clearcut, sorry your class sucks in all the content you do outside of your progress raids and then the 1 day 3-4 hour farm sessions but at least you do good damage in those few short hours you play a week.

wut?

[Cytraz]

He's wrong because he's focusing inward and highlighting issues without looking at the big picture of how it all pieces together. Your singular issues and gripes may be valid bit it's disingenuous to ignore the reality of the overall performance in relation to others by instead swiping it aside and focusing on "oh look how bad this is" as if it gives any validity to what you're saying.

Like I've said and like you seem to clearly not want to hear, every spec in the game has genuine issues that contribute to the overall performance of their spec in various situations, a lot of those specs perform considerably worse than Shadow Priest, which is objectively (as can be seen by objective data tracking like combat parses) a very strong spec that has for Legion had a very strong showing.

Stop asking me to tell you that your issues don't exist when I don't even doubt you have issues. It's like someone who wins a race and then spends the celebration period complaining about how bad everything was, completely ignorant to the fact that all of the other competitors have issues too (that may be different but equally problematic from their perspective) combined with the fact that they are also losing to you.

You, sir, are spot on.

[Kilee25]

Sounds like a very long-winded way of saying that mythic raiding is the only thing that matters, so anyone who cares about anything else doesn’t matter, and is probably bad at the game anyway.

[NeximEU]

He's wrong because he's focusing inward and highlighting issues without looking at the big picture of how it all pieces together. Your singular issues and gripes may be valid bit it's disingenuous to ignore the reality of the overall performance in relation to others by instead swiping it aside and focusing on "oh look how bad this is" as if it gives any validity to what you're saying.
...

So from the big picture perspective, answer Clearcuts questions. Clarify some, instead of sweeping politician-style non-answers.

The problem being that you can't give any good answers because he's absolutely correct. Legion for shadow priests can be summed up with one word, imbalanced. The single DPS spec of a class can't be so far thrust into a pigeon hole as shadow priests were. While the play style was fun, it was too much hit and miss. While the aggregate of Antorus show shadow above average that is the result of either being at the top or bottom. All while lacking tools to handle fight specific mechanics, which aren't shown in those logs.

Looking at aggregate statistics for shadow priests in raids is like looking at someone with one foot in a bucket of scalding water and the other in a bucket of ice water and saying that on average they are fine, maybe a little on the hot side.

The breaking point for me were the random stuns on Garothi, with midfight breaks and target switches to undoted targets. So I just swapped to one of my alts, and alts I had had to level up to be able to do M+. While the 60 second rotation was fun, and I liked the entire legion play-style, it simply didn't work, it was imbalanced.
"What are we doing? Oh some high level keys? Wait, lemme log my alt..."


Now with BFA prepatch coming online soon there doesn't seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel. I'd like to compare it to the devs being on a 12-step program. The first step is admitting they got it wrong. The much lower void form durations and frontloaded AOE damage is the first step there, but they got stuck in the breaking apart stage of remaking the class, and doesn't even seem to have decided what type of class they want shadow to be, DOT-class or nuke class. The current "mastery: madness", could easily be renamed "mastery: versatility" because that's basically what shadows mastery currently is on the BFA beta, and I half expect to see that name change in a patch note soon.

Frontloaded AOE damage through void eruption, which was the damage buff in the latest hotfix, makes no sense what so ever with void form. The class needs an alpha and beta with major changes to make sense, and that chance was just wasted by the devs who made barely any changes over the last half year.
With the current toolset there can be a numbers pass and shadow can do reasonable numbers. But I've tried both shadow and balance on the BFA beta, and the difference in "polish" is absolutely staggering in everything from basic abilities, through the talent tree, to azerite traits.

If you're the type of person who can ignore the glaring flaws in the priests mechanics you can probably deal decent damage in BFA. But you have to be able to accept that, and the fact that you have no idea what the direction the class will take in 8.1. Oh, and you got to have some crazy trust in a group of people who just finished an alpha and beta where they completely neglected the spec.

[ttylol]

It still doesnt invalidate anything I said, when the post I quoted said this: "Terrible AoE, terrible burst damage, hideous ramp-up time on damage, very little mobility, no cooldowns..."

Nor do "bigger picture" rankings invalidate design issues, which was my point.

Let's agree that "Spriest was garbage" was hyperbolic... So now what are your thoughts on the rest of that quote?

[Cytraz]

Nor do "bigger picture" rankings invalidate design issues, which was my point.

Let's agree that "Spriest was garbage" was hyperbolic... So now what are your thoughts on the rest of that quote?

I don't care about your point lmao. I commented on someone else's post, and you begin quoting me. I was only commenting on HIS post. He was talking about Spriests being garbage in Legion, which is NOT true. You're taking this conversation elsewhere. Just stop talking to me.