Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Druid astral powers

    So , i did looked back at the chronicles's powerchart that list all the sources of power that exist in the wow universe but i couldn't find a single mention of astral power that balance druid use

    most of the spell of the balance druid use are either arcane or nature type so astral could be the fusion of the two ?

    but the better question is why having moon and sun powers is even remotly druidic ? when i think of powers that come from space i think of cosmic force like the light or the void , not life/druidic magic

    can someone explain this to me ?

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral MrSaggins's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,200
    Chlorophyll makes sun magic inherently Druidic (:

    Stars are suns so it isn't a far stretch, but stars aren't generally arcane, so that's a bit off. As to why Elune is represented as a moon, and a moon that grants boons of Arcane magic at that, has been speculated upon for as long as anyone can remember. Perhaps she is a mini-Titan, a demi-world soul in one of the moons of Azeroth, and has Arcane blood just like the Titan Azeroth herself. Though if she created Naaru by bending Light with her Arcane magic that is worrisome, as Naaru can easily become entities of the Void.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "There is another person on the other end of the chat screen. They're our friends; they're our brothers and sisters; they're our sons and daughters. Let's take a stand to reject hate and harassment, and let's redouble our efforts to be kind and respectful to one another, and let's remind the world what the gaming community is really all about."

    Mike Morhaime CEO of Blizzard Entertainment, Blizzcon 2014 (view)

  3. #3
    the 'astral' power was just another part of nature.

    I've always viewed that it was 'arcane' in the game entirely due to how fucked a player would be if they had only spells with cast times and got locked out of their ONE school with a kick/counter spell/spell lock

    think about it. Druid healer had 2 instant spells... Moonfire and Rejuvenation. Wrath was 2 seconds, Starfire 3, entangling roots 1.5.... any of those get hit and you can't do shit cause shapeshifting was also counted in there for some reason?

  4. #4
    "Cosmic forces" in WarCraft are already defined and they include Life and Death thus Nature magic and Necromantic magic. Druidism is a discipline not a type of magic. They practice mostly nature magic but are not limited to it.

    My headcanon is simply that their mastery over the cosmic force of life allow them to harness the astral power. The same way a mage's mastery over arcane allows him to manipulate the elements. The cosmic forces govern over the physical universe anyway, so I can't see why they can't be used to reach various results.

    The two astral powers are just druids's way of burning faces. They generally can't communicate directly with the elements like shamans, so they just harness the energy of the sun and the moon that reach Azeroth. Since, both objects are pretty damn huge so they should emit plenty of energy for druids to utilize. Blizzard labels their damage types strangely in the first place. It makes sense for X spell to be derived from nature magic but it does not make any sense to me to label it nature damage. What is that even supposed to mean? It could be burn damage, freeze damage, crush damage, etc.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2018-07-14 at 12:07 PM.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    the 'astral' power was just another part of nature.

    I've always viewed that it was 'arcane' in the game entirely due to how fucked a player would be if they had only spells with cast times and got locked out of their ONE school with a kick/counter spell/spell lock

    think about it. Druid healer had 2 instant spells... Moonfire and Rejuvenation. Wrath was 2 seconds, Starfire 3, entangling roots 1.5.... any of those get hit and you can't do shit cause shapeshifting was also counted in there for some reason?
    Like how every healer spec has resurrection but lorewise that isn't used when someone important dies. It is necessary for gameplay to take some liberties with lore.

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    The Lookout
    Posts
    20,979
    Elune (Mu'sha) and An'she are meant to be what powers Druidic Magic. Both are "Celestial" entities representing the Sun and Moon. Moon is Lunar Sun (which is a Star) is Astral.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Balager View Post
    Like how every healer spec has resurrection but lorewise that isn't used when someone important dies. It is necessary for gameplay to take some liberties with lore.
    exactly.

    also spell schools is something that we really shouldn't look too closely at. Death and shadow magics deal the same damage type for the most part if you're looking at them in the game files, but remain entirely different schools in the current storyline.

  8. #8
    okay , so there no clear explanation of what is really going on with astral powers canonicaly , how can i shoot mini moons and devastating concentrated rays of sun and moon to incinerate my ennemies or sling shooting stars at their faces

    will have to build some rp headcanon as to what my balance druid is actually doin then ^^

    i have another question : how does druids call upon their powers ? do they manifest it like mages , do they ask for it like chamans or do they bound it to their will like warlock or something completly different ? i assume that for calling sentient and intelligent nature beings( treants ,wisps) they ask for it , but do they have to pray elune or an"she for using sun and moon related spells ?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by naeblis495 View Post
    okay , so there no clear explanation of what is really going on with astral powers canonicaly , how can i shoot mini moons and devastating concentrated rays of sun and moon to incinerate my ennemies or sling shooting stars at their faces

    will have to build some rp headcanon as to what my balance druid is actually doin then ^^

    i have another question : how does druids call upon their powers ? do they manifest it like mages , do they ask for it like chamans or do they bound it to their will like warlock or something completly different ? i assume that for calling sentient and intelligent nature beings( treants ,wisps) they ask for it , but do they have to pray elune or an"she for using sun and moon related spells ?
    Using Malfurion as an example, he performs his spells more or less just like mages do. He just has different attitude toward the source of power. Also, wisps and treants are different. The wisps are not concious. They have almost robotic nature. They need someone with sufficient mastery to direct them if they are to become something useful in battle.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2018-07-14 at 12:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Using Malfurion as an example, he performs his spells just like mages do. He just has different attitude toward the source of power. Also, wisps and treants are different. The wisps are not concious. They have almost robotic nature. They need someone with sufficient mastery to direct them if they are to become something useful in battle.
    ok great , i like being the master of my powers and notbeing at the mercy of the source of power

    didn't know that wisps were retarded by themselves thanks for clarifying , they certainly dropped in my esteem haha

  11. #11
    Druids have astral powers because they are connected to the night elves - children of the stars whose very essence is arcane and they are made elves from an arcane well.

    The arcane enhances nature so the two would work very well hand in hand.

    You see night elf priests, druids AND mages use a lot of astral spells i.e moon and star. Just look at all the spells Priestess of the Moon units use, Balance druids units and Nightborne knighthood units use - it is a common theme across board.

    Now the magic type from moonlight and starlight is arcane, one could argue sunlight should be too, which lends to the blood elves full of sun references hinting at sun arcane magic, however just as chlorophyll converts sunlight energy for the plants to grow naturally, it could be druids using nature to convert sunlight makes the arcane energy of the sun they then blast with nature as they have filtered it through nature or channel it through nature and not directly, they are night people, wielding sun arcane magic might be less of a thing for them, this process does not exist for moonlight and starlight night elf people live by, the light produced an insufficient and inefficient conversion from nature (no chlorophyll for moonlight, so it is handled directly and more their flavour of light anyway), hence the energy utilised is arcane.

    Notice utilising arcane energy is not necessarily the same as wielding the arcane. If the stars and moon light captured are arcane energy, amplifying focusing it is not actually manipulating it, you are not changing or fiddling with magic, you are simply directing the energy something else produces. Since the stars are up there, they are the source of the energy you direct, and you don't necessarily have to do so via arcane means, note a highborne/nightnorne/Moonguard mage may use the arcane to direct the energy of the stars and sun, but a druid might use certain nature secrets, while a priest would call on Elune who answers via that energy. The Well of Eternity is a source of arcane energy from Azeroth itself, mages may use it to link to the stars, but Moonkin do not need it to focus the moonlight arcane energy from the moon, they do it through non sorcery means(ie arcane manipulation) as do druids.

    The fact that it is so star/moon focused is because they are night elves, children of the stars (Kal) or night (shal)'Doris

    These guys have been handling arcane energy since they existed, regardless of their group, they have had wells of arcane energy handled it's power (Pre-sundering kaldorei/post sundering highborne/nightborne/Moonguard ) or it's properties (post sundering kaldorei priests and druids).

    How they handled it changed based on which group you were with and at what period, for the Hyjal survivors, using the arcane energy of Azeroth's well of eternity was prohibited, as it made Azeroth light up like a beacon in the nether, however the stars and moon are not Azeroth, directing their energy to wherever you are draws attention to the stars and moon, not to where you are, besides, it is just an energy, not an actual source of the arcane like the well, you can only focus , direct or amplify it's energy you can't use it to do spells, because it is not a source of magic, like the well.

    Now the ban on using the arcane is not in effect in any night elf group, we should see new stuff making use of knowledge from both
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2018-07-14 at 02:41 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Using Malfurion as an example, he performs his spells more or less just like mages do. He just has different attitude toward the source of power. Also, wisps and treants are different. The wisps are not concious. They have almost robotic nature. They need someone with sufficient mastery to direct them if they are to become something useful in battle.
    In fact, in the War of the Ancients, Malfurion almost always ask clouds/wind /etc about something
    He asked the wind to set up a small hurricane so that the Highborne could not support the portal for the Legion and he asked the clouds to strike Hakkar with lightning
    In that book, he is almost indistinguishable from the shaman.
    Also, it's pretty funny that in none-game sources (comics, books, stories) the druids do not use astral magic, so we do not know how it works

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post

    Notice utilising arcane energy is not necessarily the same as wielding the arcane. If the stars and moon light captured are arcane energy, amplifying focusing it is not actually manipulating it, you are not changing or fiddling with magic, you are simply directing the energy something else produces. Since the stars are up there, they are the source of the energy you direct, and you don't necessarily have to do so via arcane means, note a highborne/nightnorne/Moonguard mage may use the arcane to direct the energy of the stars and sun, but a druid might use certain nature secrets, while a priest would call on Elune who answers via that energy. The Well of Eternity is a source of arcane energy from Azeroth itself, mages may use it to link to the stars, but Moonkin do not need it to focus the moonlight arcane energy from the moon, they do it through non sorcery means(ie arcane manipulation) as do druids.
    I hadn't realised this, it could explain why they use arcane damage type spells without necessarily actually using the arcane. They're merely focusing the energy/light who's type is arcane not actually manipulating the arcane. Druidsm was borne out of an arcane wielding race afterall, and it would explain how they could wield this under an arcane magic ban.

    But the high use of arcane energy throughout their disciplines we cannot ignore underlies their deep tie to the arcane, as well as nature and Elune, something which @Techno-Druid tends not to factor in or ignore.

    I still think my old theory might be the case or at least bears some weight - this is that, the night elves only banned using the well of eternity for arcane spells, although the distinction isn't always made in the time line of WC3 and later, WotA specifically states the ban is on sorcery using the Well of Eternity. For a race at which time all magic use was done only through the well - unlike post implosion where high elves figure out how to use arcane that is blasted through Azeroth from that implosion. Also if the term "using arcane magic" and using the well of eternity were the same thing to the night elves, the ban might only have referred to using the Well in actual fact as this was thought to be the main prize of the legion, and the beacon that lit up on the twisting nether drawing them to Azeroth, exactly what the ban is to prevent. Let me rephrase: if when a night elf says "wielding arcane magic is banned on penalty of death" he actually means "wielding arcane magic of the Well of Eternity is banned on penalty of death" because to him, they are one and the same, since using it without the well is unknown to them and for a people who do great works of power, also un-noticeable, we may not fully understand what they meant - because we think it means any use of arcane magic. We don't know what arcane magic to them looks like, they were wielding and doing stuff on a scale that is often remarked as not even haven been dreamt off, to them what we would call normal arcane spells like arcane blast might actually be nothing especially since it is not used from a well, it iis too insignifcant, it doesn't light up anything.. for all we know they may not even consider it real sorcery.

    It makes sense, because during their hay day, all magic wielding came from the well as a source, the thought of using the arcane without the well wasn't known to be possible, and when the Rhonin/Krasus fiasco happens, the few who noticed are surprised and puzzled by this if I remember, Rhonin's spells are far more powerfull too because of hte proximity to the Well and all the arcane energy charging them up.

    IT is the energy signature using the well for magic that lights up Azeroth. Small spells? No! If you think about it, the night elves were wielding great spells of magic and power, it would be these that drew the legion and lit Azeroth up, it stands to reason it is utilising the well that they guard against and banned, and they consider any other wielding of magic so tiny it bears no relevance. Arcane spells like moonfire/starfire would fall nder that terogry, especially if the arcane drawn on is from the stars and moon and not from Azeroth, so while actaully arcane spells, they would have been okay, because they weren't Well of Eternity fuelled and thus no lighting up of Azeroth.

    THe high elf exile story shows the high elves using the Well power to create an arcane storm that goes badly wrong, again, Well use, so without Well use there is nothing. It could be the druids do use arcane spells, but as the source is not Azeroth but the stars and moon, this has never been a problem because it has no chance of drawing the legion from the twisting to Azeroth. It's stopping people from developing large scale magical usage who's signature they can sense. But to a night elf, what future races like humans call large scale is normal or even small scale, and petty incantations ..well they are nothing.

    ~THe reason the high elves and shen'dralar and nightborne night elves got away with far larger scale magic use, was because each of these groups successfully shielded their magic usage from the twisting nether and from powerful spellcasters (in an attempt not to draw the legion - something all these groups would be aware off, and eager to avoid, especially the Shen'dralar who are bold and clever enough to delve into the nether, trap a powerful power battery demon, then successcfully seal off their world and shield their magic, the druids atop stonetalon mountains couldn't detect them, none of these groups. The high elves used the Ban'dinoriel, the nightborne had the shield, the shen'dralar had those pylons all over their city. Night elves blisffully unaware of the full raw power being wielded by their kin, that they could have been a part off, not registering at all, and therefore not attracting the legion.

    Darth'remar, was right, but i think Malfurion suspected he was, he just didn't want to risk his people getting into the state they were pre-sundering, they have a natural affinity and draw to the arcane, and I think he didn't want to risk it. I wonder what Ceanrius' motives were, he had to be aware of this too - perhaps he just let the elves decide what they would do, and backed that play.
    Last edited by Mace; 2018-07-14 at 07:34 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I hadn't realised this, it could explain why they use arcane damage type spells without necessarily actually using the arcane. They're merely focusing the energy/light who's type is arcane not actually manipulating the arcane. Druidsm was borne out of an arcane wielding race afterall, and it would explain how they could wield this under an arcane magic ban.
    And that's assuming there is any Arcane magic involved at all. The ingame damage types are purely for the sake of game mechanics and have no connection to the cosmology beyond some shared names, so we don't have any actual evidence for this.

    Also, Druidism was taught to the race, not borne out of it. It was also taught to Tauren, who were never Arcane users to begin with.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And that's assuming there is any Arcane magic involved at all. The ingame damage types are purely for the sake of game mechanics and have no connection to the cosmology beyond some shared names, so we don't have any actual evidence for this.

    Also, Druidism was taught to the race, not borne out of it. It was also taught to Tauren, who were never Arcane users to begin with.
    Yes it is an assumption arcane magic is involved indeed, but it is safe to assume it is, given how blizzard has gone out of their way to make everything you see in game part of the lore. I am warming up to the concept that those arcane damage spells are merely arcane energy of the stars/moon rather than arcane magic, so you could both be right. nothing definite.

    However however I pretty sure druidsm was borne from the night elves. It was Malfurion who developed the teachings of Cenarius on nature and it's power to the advanced level that became known as druidsm, and the the night elves were the first to master and operate at this level, surpassing that of the both the first generation of night elves CEnarius tutored including the primitive druidic wing of the valewalkers, and the early Tauren, none of htem advanced that far. I feel it was in a similar way the night elves also developed the study of arcane magic to the level of what they first called Mage or Magister, prior to that, I'm sure other groups had experienced, utlised even some arcane spell work, but none again took it to the advanced level and detailed study known as mage craft that the night elves did. Hence why it was said they were the first to study arcane magic.

    Everyone has their thing, in warcraft, magic is the elves' main thing. When they introduced night elves in WC3, the way the wrote aobut the level of their arcane mastery in their wonder empire and then the level of nature mastery during their long vigil, they were like Elves on steroid, they were deeper, more primal, in all the elements that made elves different from humans vs the high elves. i.e. longer lifespans (immortal), higher greater magical affinity and mastery both in the arcane when they wielded it, and now in nature - it made what we knew about the high elves seem like the kids version, both in the arcane and in nature. They were painted as more agile and deft too with all their moving around the forest whether as huntresses or even taking animal form, they had the magic glowing eyes, filled wih the original source of elven power - the Well of Eternity, also more decisive too and threatening, unlike the noble human type portrayal we saw of high elves.

    This made sense to us, because their introduction was that of the original elf, therefore they had to embody the typical elven characteristics more prominently. The story of how the night elf became high elf also correlated and seemed to more or less confirm they were more like a watered down version of the elves - they get exiled and lose some of the typical elven traits - immortality or near immortal lifespans, reduction in magical prowress - for all their cleverness, the high elves were never able to achieve what their ancestors did as night elves in the arcane, nor did they come close with what they did with nature during the long vigil either. The high elf was weaker, more frail, shorter, more humanised, losing the special enhanced intelligence, lifespan and intellect being filled and connected ot the welll of eternity gave them, they were later hooked up to the sunwell enhancing them again, but it not being as powerful a source meant they never quite got backck there, however because the main kaldorei group stopped using the arcane for sorcery, and the high elf group started using again, their intellect would have been boosted further from it's devolved state to a level higher than a night elf who wasn't utilsiing the arcane which boosts intellect. .

    To me this expalains why the only are high elves surpass non-arcane wielding night elves is in intellect. They won't surpass arcane wielding ones like highborne or nightborne though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's also why it is very annoying to see night elves humanised so much in stormwind, the high elves were made for this, the more human elves humans could relate too. Night elves should have as much a superior complex to high elves as high elves have to humans, although druids and priests are humble because of their wisdom and devotion to beings like Elune and nature - however we do have sentinels, highborne, moonguard, wardens, demon hunters - where humility is not part of their make up.. we should see more of this there.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    In fact, in the War of the Ancients, Malfurion almost always ask clouds/wind /etc about something
    He asked the wind to set up a small hurricane so that the Highborne could not support the portal for the Legion and he asked the clouds to strike Hakkar with lightning
    In that book, he is almost indistinguishable from the shaman.
    Also, it's pretty funny that in none-game sources (comics, books, stories) the druids do not use astral magic, so we do not know how it works
    They are quite different when you contrast Malfurion with Thrall in Lord of the Clan. Malfurion's "askings" are not very literal. They are described as something like for example, he "asks" the wind to blow then rouse them to blow harder. There is not a single instance where all these parts of nature actually talk back in the books. They are almost metephorical. There also are many instances where he just does it like when he grow a tree out of an arrow on Xavius for example. Thrall on the other hand, has real conversations with the spirits in Lord of the Clan. The sort of conversation that you would have with a person.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2018-07-14 at 11:37 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Now the ban on using the arcane is not in effect in any night elf group, we should see new stuff making use of knowledge from both
    you still have a higher opinion of arcane using night elves than any of the mainsteam in game Keldorei that survived the sundering and weren't holed up among the Shen'dralar.

    They get treatment similar to that of a void elf in the Cathedral in Stormwind. Remember you're talking about the group that holds 10,000 year long grudges because someone was part of a love triangle.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And that's assuming there is any Arcane magic involved at all. The ingame damage types are purely for the sake of game mechanics and have no connection to the cosmology beyond some shared names, so we don't have any actual evidence for this.
    Such is the case with so much in Wow and Warcraft, many things not explained, we have to either use our imagination and the things already in the lore to try and guess how they work until blizzard actually explicitly shows us.

    And they may never, sometimes it is such a small thing it isn't even on the radar, sometimes to them it is so obvious by putting two and two together they may feel it isn't necessary to explain, but what seems obvious to me might not be to someone else, and if I give an explanation, even drawing from the lore, without direct confirmation, can't really say for sure and it can be argued over.

    Sometimes they like this, who's to say the cloth cuts only one way? Other times it gives players room to grow their fantasy, which can be a lot of fun for them. And a plus in this genre, and if excellent fanatic, that is really cool and fits into the lore comes out of it, they have been known to incorporate it. Sometimes though something isn't directly said, it's pretty obvious there is only one way it can be taken if you consider the lore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    you still have a higher opinion of arcane using night elves than any of the mainsteam in game Keldorei that survived the sundering and weren't holed up among the Shen'dralar.
    Probably because i like that part of their fantasy too. The dark elf caster in world of warcraft is very different from its counterparts in other games, i like the noble good night elf arcane users, something theyy aall were before addiction compromised that.

    I also like how integrated the arcane is in the night elves throughout the Long vigil, and love the details of the fantasy too, elves filled with arcane power with glowing eyes, a well of arcane power that nourishes nature, (in other fantasies, your dark elf caster arcane power was the antithesis, of nature, in wow, it was different, they complimented nature, and wow's dark elves also loved nature too, it was a core part of them in the arccane era even though practice became marginilised, and vice versa the arcane was still a core during the vigil era even though it wasnt used for spellwork - different and rich) even their restriction on then use of their arcane power for spells i always viewed as a temporary thing and one of the great things to look forward to about the night elves was when they would start embracing it again.

    You have to have things to look forward to in a race, it brings exciteplant and boosts your immersion and attachment to your character and the world. WC3 ended with legion returning and the need for a ban no longer necessary. Since these guys were portrayed as being the most naturally gifted and attuned to it, with the ban lifted I expected they would rise up in the arcane once more and build their beautiful cities.

    In truth I was very excited to see advanced night elf architecture, to see the pre-sundering wonders. I like seeing wonders, So I loved the moving tree houses, the cholera dragons, the star calling Priestesses, the elves that could change into animals, I loved that, and it only what my appetite for more, having seen the nature wonders, I wanted to see the fabled arcane ones they spoke of about the pre sundering empires.

    I loved their uniqueness, these guys had a full on nature aspect to them, but it had the arcane fully part of it , included and visible, not vague like other fantasies, this was unique, druids that called on the stars and moon, an arcane well.

    I also lived that they tried to make them a purer elf, reflecting that these were the original elves as @Mace explains above. All elven traits, outside humanities reach or capability were amplified in the night elves, from character, perfectionism, magical aptitude and display...whether arcane power in a wonder pre sundering empire or nature power through world trees, walking and talking trees and animals, covering a continent in mist etc. Blizzard did not shy away from letting loose on their imagination, I especially after seeing those ruins, I couldn't wait to see what they would do when the night elves started building again with the arcane pre-sundering cities. Silvermoin did not disappoint when they did it, it gave me such hope. Didn't realise I would wait Over 10 years to see Suramar, but it did not disappoint either.

    To be honest I really like all the different facets of warcraft elves love the most recent addition, void elves, can't wait to see what they do with them. Why do you think I get so passionate about them and so annoyed when they don't write them playing out well or according to how they designed them.

    It's because when they do it well it is so nice, you really want them to do everything concerning them with the same level of excellence they are supposed to be as in game too, so when that doesn't come of well it is annoying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    They get treatment similar to that of a void elf in the Cathedral in Stormwind. Remember you're talking about the group that holds 10,000 year long grudges because someone was part of a love triangle.
    That is like saying in 8 years time after blizzard has shown the u understanding of void and light much greater in humans, and intolerable humans even now u understand you can wield the void without being evil and accept the void elves, that they are still marginalised because of the cathedral response.

    Their initial welcome was tough, same as the DKs or DHs, but this was in the pre-cata patch, dude. Wolfheart showed Maiev was whipping up highborne hate and only a handful of night elves followed her. It showed Malfurion AND Tyrande wanted those highborne back in the fold appreciating night elf society has evolved since the Long vigil. I mean why do you expect them to forever hate every highborne caster even those who are responsible and UNCORRUPTED? It's gotta change sometime, and as greater clarity cones of the highborne and the different groups of them, especially as cata quests show you night elves keen to embrace the arcane and only Maiev hating it...why would you continue to think the treatment in the pre-cata scene still stands and the situation hasn't long since progressed from they.

    Surely by now you should see the problem was not with the highborne for being highborne - no, that is irrational, and elves are not like that, humans can be, but elves on the whole are not unless they go crazy (cough Maiev), nor is the problem with the arcane itself as you know even in the nature filled long vigil they are infused and surrounded by the Wel of Eternity and export it's waters all over the place as moonwalk. The problem was always with reckless and abusive use of magic, and anger was against the highborne caste that abused the magic and brought the Legion.

    What happens when they meet a bunch of highborne who are corrupted and do not abuse their magic? Even if they hated the casrpte for its role, do you think it will last forever? No. And this is precisely what Wolfheart and Cata actually showed.

    Most night elves don't hate their highborne or marginkise them, a lot of night elves opted to study the arcane again, do not forget it is in their make up, they are drawn to it by nature, this should not surprise you. Their druids and priestly sides will ensure those who go that arcane wield it with the respect it deserves and do not abuse it in the way that destroyed them, but they will wield it and it is a key and growing part of them.

    I don't know how much it's grown, but it was growing, the Moonguard, nightborne and Farondis appearances in Legion should further increase that share
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2018-07-15 at 10:29 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post

    I also like how I integrated the arcane

    just want to highlight this part... thing is the in game portrayal doesn't really mesh up with your version of events. the rift between the dedicated arcane users and practitioners was a bit wider than you describe for your version of including arcane usage. Maybe subsitute 'arcane' with 'magic' and spot on... but specifically arcane has some other baggage tied to it in Keldorei culture. The exile might be ended, but the new mages coming up in Darnassus aren't getting sunshine and roses... their treatment might be more comparative to warlocks in Orgrimmar, hell I think Orcs were more open to new mages than night elves.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    just want to highlight this part... thing is the in game portrayal doesn't really mesh up with your version of events. the rift between the dedicated arcane users and practitioners was a bit wider than you describe for your version of including arcane usage. Maybe subsitute 'arcane' with 'magic' and spot on... but specifically arcane has some other baggage tied to it in Keldorei culture. The exile might be ended, but the new mages coming up in Darnassus aren't getting sunshine and roses... their treatment might be more comparative to warlocks in Orgrimmar, hell I think Orcs were more open to new mages than night elves.
    You mean you don’t think the arcane is ingrained i them that even though they ban its usenfornspells, they don’t hate it, continue to be filled with it, and when it is no longer banned they flock to it. Or that being infused by an arcane well, focused on it is not ran indidcation that it is a core part of them. I mean that is blizzards presentation. They aren’t nature elves without the arcane. You could perceive their highborne and the high elves as arcane elves without nature, but nightbrlves aren’t elves without the arcane. It is there whether it is used or not.

    As for Druid stuff. We think too much. It’s there, I accept it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Such is the case with so much in Wow and Warcraft, many things not explained, we have to either use our imagination and the things already in the lore to try and guess how they work until blizzard actually explicitly shows us.

    And they may never, sometimes it is such a small thing it isn't even on the radar, sometimes to them it is so obvious by putting two and two together they may feel it isn't necessary to explain, but what seems obvious to me might not be to someone else, and if I give an explanation, even drawing from the lore, without direct confirmation, can't really say for sure and it can be argued over.

    Sometimes they like this, who's to say the cloth cuts only one way? Other times it gives players room to grow their fantasy, which can be a lot of fun for them. And a plus in this genre, and if excellent fanatic, that is really cool and fits into the lore comes out of it, they have been known to incorporate it. Sometimes though something isn't directly said, it's pretty obvious there is only one way it can be taken if you consider the lore.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Probably because i like that part of their fantasy too. The dark elf caster in world of warcraft is very different from its counterparts in other games, i like the noble good night elf arcane users, something theyy aall were before addiction compromised that.

    I also like how integrated the arcane is in the night elves throughout the Long vigil, and love the details of the fantasy too, elves filled with arcane power with glowing eyes, a well of arcane power that nourishes nature, (in other fantasies, your dark elf caster arcane power was the antithesis, of nature, in wow, it was different, they complimented nature, and wow's dark elves also loved nature too, it was a core part of them in the arccane era even though practice became marginilised, and vice versa the arcane was still a core during the vigil era even though it wasnt used for spellwork - different and rich) even their restriction on then use of their arcane power for spells i always viewed as a temporary thing and one of the great things to look forward to about the night elves was when they would start embracing it again.

    You have to have things to look forward to in a race, it brings exciteplant and boosts your immersion and attachment to your character and the world. WC3 ended with legion returning and the need for a ban no longer necessary. Since these guys were portrayed as being the most naturally gifted and attuned to it, with the ban lifted I expected they would rise up in the arcane once more and build their beautiful cities.

    In truth I was very excited to see advanced night elf architecture, to see the pre-sundering wonders. I like seeing wonders, So I loved the moving tree houses, the cholera dragons, the star calling Priestesses, the elves that could change into animals, I loved that, and it only what my appetite for more, having seen the nature wonders, I wanted to see the fabled arcane ones they spoke of about the pre sundering empires.

    I loved their uniqueness, these guys had a full on nature aspect to them, but it had the arcane fully part of it , included and visible, not vague like other fantasies, this was unique, druids that called on the stars and moon, an arcane well.

    I also lived that they tried to make them a purer elf, reflecting that these were the original elves as @Mace explains above. All elven traits, outside humanities reach or capability were amplified in the night elves, from character, perfectionism, magical aptitude and display...whether arcane power in a wonder pre sundering empire or nature power through world trees, walking and talking trees and animals, covering a continent in mist etc. Blizzard did not shy away from letting loose on their imagination, I especially after seeing those ruins, I couldn't wait to see what they would do when the night elves started building again with the arcane pre-sundering cities. Silvermoin did not disappoint when they did it, it gave me such hope. Didn't realise I would wait Over 10 years to see Suramar, but it did not disappoint either.

    To be honest I really like all the different facets of warcraft elves love the most recent addition, void elves, can't wait to see what they do with them. Why do you think I get so passionate about them and so annoyed when they don't write them playing out well or according to how they designed them.

    It's because when they do it well it is so nice, you really want them to do everything concerning them with the same level of excellence they are supposed to be as in game too, so when that doesn't come of well it is annoying.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That is like saying in 8 years time after blizzard has shown the u understanding of void and light much greater in humans, and intolerable humans even now u understand you can wield the void without being evil and accept the void elves, that they are still marginalised because of the cathedral response.

    Their initial welcome was tough, same as the DKs or DHs, but this was in the pre-cata patch, dude. Wolfheart showed Maiev was whipping up highborne hate and only a handful of night elves followed her. It showed Malfurion AND Tyrande wanted those highborne back in the fold appreciating night elf society has evolved since the Long vigil. I mean why do you expect them to forever hate every highborne caster even those who are responsible and UNCORRUPTED? It's gotta change sometime, and as greater clarity cones of the highborne and the different groups of them, especially as cata quests show you night elves keen to embrace the arcane and only Maiev hating it...why would you continue to think the treatment in the pre-cata scene still stands and the situation hasn't long since progressed from they.

    Surely by now you should see the problem was not with the highborne for being highborne - no, that is irrational, and elves are not like that, humans can be, but elves on the whole are not unless they go crazy (cough Maiev), nor is the problem with the arcane itself as you know even in the nature filled long vigil they are infused and surrounded by the Wel of Eternity and export it's waters all over the place as moonwalk. The problem was always with reckless and abusive use of magic, and anger was against the highborne caste that abused the magic and brought the Legion.

    What happens when they meet a bunch of highborne who are corrupted and do not abuse their magic? Even if they hated the casrpte for its role, do you think it will last forever? No. And this is precisely what Wolfheart and Cata actually showed.

    Most night elves don't hate their highborne or marginkise them, a lot of night elves opted to study the arcane again, do not forget it is in their make up, they are drawn to it by nature, this should not surprise you. Their druids and priestly sides will ensure those who go that arcane wield it with the respect it deserves and do not abuse it in the way that destroyed them, but they will wield it and it is a key and growing part of them.

    I don't know how much it's grown, but it was growing, the Moonguard, nightborne and Farondis appearances in Legion should further increase that share
    So in other fantasies dark elves arcane magic don’t mix? It might explain why some people struggle with seeing the very blatant arcane elements of the . It won’t feel natural to them if that is the norm for their ode of nature amongst elves.

    I don’t know fantasy genre very well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •