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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    its a decent enough expansion if you just like chasing after fluff like mounts I guess but class design is the crux of the argument and I saw none of that from a poster who is a streamer soo.....
    Not allowed to give out relevant PVE gear progression unless it's from raids, enjoy your mounts and cosmetics!

    Ion needs to be fired.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    Not allowed to give out relevant PVE gear progression unless it's from raids, enjoy your mounts and cosmetics!

    Ion needs to be fired.
    Cause M+ doesn't exist? :Thinking: Where exactly did you get "Relevant PVE progression" outside of raids in previous expansion? Oh right, fucking nowhere.

  3. #83
    My main problems with the game is:
    >Doing world quests feel really unrewarding, even less so than in Legion, because of so little reward, if it didn't feel a chore before, now it is definietly one. On top of that they made it more tedious without WQGF.
    >Azerite seems like a really bad design because you barely get anything from it to the point where it would be better to just get normal gear pieces instead, well not exactly, but I know they had to put something in the game that sells as an ongoing "content" until new patches come, I don't think this is a good way to promote replayability. It just feels like a cheap way to make people stay subbed. A worse version of Artifacts basically.
    >Island expeditions and Warfronts are all AI based as far as I know and it seems like they are not challanging and gets boring quick. I know it's hard to make repetetive content engaging, it's a nice addition, but I hope it isn't one of the main thing of this expansion, as a little addition it is decent.
    >Pruned classes/specs that just doesn't feel right at all right now. Priests, Shamans mainly. Changes will come with 8.1 but who knows if they will be good. After 14+ years I feel this is really bad. The only exception that I feel really good and worked well is Demo warlock, I hope to see such changes to other classes in the future patches.


    Positives:
    >Cool zones with good graphics, the zones have good vibe
    >Good dungeons with Mythic+ optimalisation (this is the one thing I'm mostly looking forward to)
    >PvP looks promising again
    >New sub races



    Overall it feels like the game takes away more than it adds to the fun.
    Last edited by Dizson; 2018-07-14 at 12:53 AM.

  4. #84
    Deleted
    I just have to comment on one thing. The dungeons are not unique. A lot of stuff is copypasted from Legion, e.g the slimes. There is a lack of new models and animation as well, and the boss emotes / voice acting are uninspiring. Damn, wow fans have become so easy to please....

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    And a zone and meaningful reps. Yet when meaningful reps were brought back for Allied races people bitch. Garisons were the least of the problems for WoD. The lack of content for players who played a lot, the optics of missing/cut content and only 2 raid tiers is what really hurt the game. However, if you ignore the nostalgia peak that got a bunch of players back just before and shortly after launch, WoD was a pretty stable game sub wise for those that care about it.

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    Might be a Suramar in 8.1.

    The meaningful rep grind isn't the problem, the grind being attached to races and to an expansion new and returning players will not be playing is where the argument comes in. If they had been stuck on something BfA based people would have been fine, because it was something advertised with BfA. It's the fact that they are attached to Legion reps, even though they are being sold as a BfA product that is creating the problem.

    People don't mind doing rep grinds, but it needs to be something they plan to be playing, not something from the previous expansions content, which Allied races are not a Legion feature.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Siglius View Post
    Cause M+ doesn't exist? :Thinking: Where exactly did you get "Relevant PVE progression" outside of raids in previous expansion? Oh right, fucking nowhere.
    nice rude reply, are you being paid to defend blizzard?

    let's see:
    Valor in WOTLK/CAT(Mop? didnt play) gave you raid quality gear/tier sets.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    nice rude reply, are you being paid to defend blizzard?

    let's see:
    Valor in WOTLK/CAT(Mop? didnt play) gave you raid quality gear/tier sets.
    "Everyone who disagrees with me is a shill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" *autistic screeching ensues*

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    nice rude reply, are you being paid to defend blizzard?

    let's see:
    Valor in WOTLK/CAT(Mop? didnt play) gave you raid quality gear/tier sets.
    Pointing out flaws in your (lack of) logic doesn't make me rude.

    Valor gear usually only amounted to a few offpieces of NM raid quality gear. Hardly an equal to M+ being an entierly parallel progression path to raiding.

    Also no. I'm not a defender of blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupidity. Unfortunately those often end up being the same thing on this forum.
    Last edited by Siglius; 2018-07-14 at 12:55 PM.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    The meaningful rep grind isn't the problem, the grind being attached to races and to an expansion new and returning players will not be playing is where the argument comes in. If they had been stuck on something BfA based people would have been fine, because it was something advertised with BfA. It's the fact that they are attached to Legion reps, even though they are being sold as a BfA product that is creating the problem.

    People don't mind doing rep grinds, but it needs to be something they plan to be playing, not something from the previous expansions content, which Allied races are not a Legion feature.
    People farm old shit all the time for what they want. I see this as no different than Ashes, or Invincible. Instead of mount it's a new race option. Do I think a campaign style line of quests would have been a better option, that way you pop in do a few quests and unlock it over a few weeks would have been better? That way, like all other campaign quest lines, once it's old news you could do them all in a day. That would have been a better option for people buying BfA at or post launch. But we have rep grinds and people have to do them if they want the Allied races.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    People farm old shit all the time for what they want. I see this as no different than Ashes, or Invincible. Instead of mount it's a new race option. Do I think a campaign style line of quests would have been a better option, that way you pop in do a few quests and unlock it over a few weeks would have been better? That way, like all other campaign quest lines, once it's old news you could do them all in a day. That would have been a better option for people buying BfA at or post launch. But we have rep grinds and people have to do them if they want the Allied races.

    Yeah but you are talking about old items, things that have always been random drops and require a bit of luck. That stuff was also obtained originally by doing that expansions content. No one had to go back and farm AQ40 just to unlock the drops for Tempest Keep.

    Grinds are fine, but they need to be contained within the expansion they are advertised as at least. I've had the rep for these the minute they opened, but I'd be pretty ticked if I was a new or returning player and came back expecting to play one of the races, only to find out I gotta go grind content that is useless from the previous expansion, even though it was sold with this one.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    Yeah but you are talking about old items, things that have always been random drops and require a bit of luck. That stuff was also obtained originally by doing that expansions content. No one had to go back and farm AQ40 just to unlock the drops for Tempest Keep.

    Grinds are fine, but they need to be contained within the expansion they are advertised as at least. I've had the rep for these the minute they opened, but I'd be pretty ticked if I was a new or returning player and came back expecting to play one of the races, only to find out I gotta go grind content that is useless from the previous expansion, even though it was sold with this one.
    No they don't and and we are seeing just that. Allied Races are not just given to everyone, they are earned by going through the requirements. It matters not what people want to think, becasue Blizzard said this is how they want it to be. To be fair, if they add a new class next expansion and it is not a hero class and you have to start from one, are you going to say similar things about how you should have to go back to previous expansions to play something that advertised in the current one? Requirements are requirements, doesn't matter where you have to do them.

  12. #92
    Deleted
    The azerite system does not add anything of value. Very underwhelming. It will be the Windows Vista of expansions.

    As an old man with arthritis, bad eyesight, no skill, and reaction speed of a tree in winter I love the GCD changes though

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    I just have to comment on one thing. The dungeons are not unique. A lot of stuff is copypasted from Legion, e.g the slimes. There is a lack of new models and animation as well, and the boss emotes / voice acting are uninspiring. Damn, wow fans have become so easy to please....
    Really slimes? Lack of new model? Sethrak, Drustvar, Zandalari. As for bosses I dunno I can think of a few..lord stormsong, gorak tul, waycrests. Need a beta key to play?
    http://twitch.tv/towelliee TowelRapaport #WoWsheet

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Siglius View Post
    Pointing out flaws in your (lack of) logic doesn't make me rude.

    Valor gear usually only amounted to a few offpieces of NM raid quality gear. Hardly an equal to M+ being an entierly parallel progression path to raiding.

    Also no. I'm not a defender of blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupidity. Unfortunately those often end up being the same thing on this forum.
    The people in the M+ tournament competing literally complained about mythic raiders having too big of an advantage in m+. Saying it's parallel to mythic raiding is flat out WRONG and borderline trolling.

    Going to call tournament competitors stupid too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thenatural View Post
    "Everyone who disagrees with me is a shill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" *autistic screeching ensues*
    Spamming multiple exclamation marks and calling someone else autistic. Classic.

  15. #95
    I respect your opinion Towelliee but quite often you paint new WoW features with rose colored glasses to a somewhat obnoxious degree. With that said you are part of why I am currently playing the game so we will call it even. I know this from being a long time viewer and respect your stream greatly.

    For me the hype on the ground and from Blizzard is disconcertingly low in comparison to Legion. The features about BFA you posted may not matter if people go in unexcited. Momentum won't be there to get past any bumps early which could be a large problem for the roll out/success of this xpac. It feels all around like Blizzard distanced themselves either on purpose or not in hyping/selling this xpac. This has my skepticism at a very high level. Going in very cautiously optimistic that BFA will be as fun as Legion. Preparing myself mentally that it may be a good xpac to go grind out old achieves etc if it becomes filler.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    It was? I wasn't aware there was some law decreeing "expansions must have at least 3 raid tiers to be considered long enough". That whole "it would cost us a raid tier" meme needs to be scorched with a flamethrower.
    blizzard never defined how many, but every expansion prior had had at least 3, often with multiple raids added within a tier later. If you spend 10 years training your customers about what to expect, then you can expect them to continue expecting it until you say otherwise.

    Additionally, Ray D. Tear was found buried in the garrison as I understand it. This can be interpreted any way (including the official blizzard interpretation, which was that the fact only 2 raid tiers in the expansion is merely a coincidence).

    Understandably, given that netherstorm was also cut from planned and originally mentioned content, people concluded a planned raid tier had been dropped.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  17. #97
    Shocking. WoW shill shills for WoW. Also, this just in, water is wet.

  18. #98
    People are just desperate for ways to shit on the game, as per usual. They've resorted to turn positives around into negatives as a result. It's amazing just how many people stick around this game despite being incapable of admitting that they enjoy and like it.

    You probably represent the vast majority of players, and BfA will carry on the new design philosophies as of Legion (thanks Ion!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Would have respected this more
    As if your "respect" is something inherently worth having.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    This. Especially coming from someone like OP, who plays for a living. B4A may have its strong points, but the OP is biased af.

    Towelliee is pretty damned vocal about things he doesn't like. The fact that he's mostly a positive-minded kind of dude just stings in the eyes of the Negative Nancy-crowd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    I just have to comment on one thing. The dungeons are not unique. A lot of stuff is copypasted from Legion, e.g the slimes. There is a lack of new models and animation as well, and the boss emotes / voice acting are uninspiring. Damn, wow fans have become so easy to please....
    Damn, WoW haters have become so void of imagination...

    The very first datamine alone had enough new models to fit 2 previous expansions. Try again.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by SensationalBanana View Post
    People are just desperate for ways to shit on the game, as per usual. They've resorted to turn positives around into negatives as a result. It's amazing just how many people stick around this game despite being incapable of admitting that they enjoy and like it.

    You probably represent the vast majority of players, and BfA will carry on the new design philosophies as of Legion (thanks Ion!).

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    As if your "respect" is something inherently worth having.

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    Towelliee is pretty damned vocal about things he doesn't like. The fact that he's mostly a positive-minded kind of dude just stings in the eyes of the Negative Nancy-crowd.

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    Damn, WoW haters have become so void of imagination...

    The very first datamine alone had enough new models to fit 2 previous expansions. Try again.
    Towelliee's not gonna fuck you, dude.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Going by experience in the beta, BFA looks a lot like WoD.

    The only positive thing is that in Legion we got 2 game systems that directly cure 2 major flaws in WoD:

    Dungeons being useless after you outgear them = Mythic+ system.
    No reason to go out into the world and just stay in your Garrison = World Quest system.

    BFA will be as successful as WoD was if it had WQ and M+ basically.
    I mean, if WoD had that then it woul dhave been a much better expansion

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