Trump's UK Visit

[JohnBrown1917]

I'm so glad that I grew up in a country that used to be part of Soviet Union. We had our revolution and now every 10 year old knows that communism and socialism is a plague.

Yes, everything that is not trickle down is communism.

[Gardoc]

You probably should watch a few movies about these topics.

As I mentioned above, my country used to be communist and we had to fix our economy after the revolution. I don't need to watch any movies and I really don't need to be lectured by leftists whose ideology is based on not understanding basic economy.

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Yes, everything that is not trickle down is communism.

No, thinking lowering the taxes for entrepreneurs (or "rich" how you like to call them) is a bad thing is communism/socialism/left (doesn't really matter, same thing)

[Mayhem]

As I mentioned above, my country used to be communist and we had to fix our economy after the revolution. I don't need to watch any movies and I really don't need to be lectured by leftists whose ideology is based on not understanding basic economy.

Yeah, it's pretty boring to argue with someone who doesn't want to know what he's talking about.

[Gardoc]

Yeah, it's pretty boring to argue with someone who doesn't want to know what he's talking about.

You just perfectly described leftists talking about anything economy related.

BTW I know what I'm talking about, I know what our right-wing governments did in order to fix the economy. What experience do you have besides your movies?

[Mayhem]

You just perfectly described leftists talking about anything economy related.

Did I? Well good, now let's hear some of your awesome economic knowledge, come on, blow us away!

Oh, wait, you already did with this gem:
"tax cuts for entrepreneur boosts economy, lowers unemployment rate and highers pay for workers"

Sooo do tell how do you think this works.

Cutting taxes for entrepreneurs makes them create jobs?

Or do you think subsidizing entrepreneurs is the way to give them a headstart, which might lead to the creation of jobs?

[Gardoc]

Did I? Well good, now let's hear some of your awesome economic knowledge, come on, blow us away!

Oh, wait, you already did with this gem:
"tax cuts for entrepreneur boosts economy, lowers unemployment rate and highers pay for workers"

Sooo do tell how do you think this works.

Cutting taxes for entrepreneurs makes them create jobs?

Or do you think subsidizing entrepreneurs is the way to give them a headstart, which might lead to the creation of jobs?

Both helps, but lowering the bureaucracy and taxes are the most important parts of political programs of every serious right-wing party. Are you from the USA? If so it might be hard for you to understand this as you have only two major political parties.
And no, cutting taxes for entrepreneurs doesn't make them create jobs, but it makes it easier for them to expand their company, which usually creates more jobs.

[JohnBrown1917]

No, thinking lowering the taxes for entrepreneurs (or "rich" how you like to call them) is a bad thing is communism/socialism/left (doesn't really matter, same thing)

Its bad for the working class, ye.

[Mormolyce]

You just perfectly described leftists talking about anything economy related.

BTW I know what I'm talking about, I know what our right-wing governments did in order to fix the economy. What experience do you have besides your movies?

You say that, and yet pretty much the only US President in living memory to deliver a surplus was a Democrat.

Here's a few scorchers from Politifact kek:


Recessions more frequent under Republicans than Democrats
The stock market does better when you have a Democratic president in the White House.
Since 1961 … our private economy has produced 66 million private-sector jobs. So what's the jobs score? Republicans 24 million, Democrats 42

And a few more:

The U.S. economy has performed better when the President of the United States is a Democrat rather than a Republican, almost regardless of how one measures performance. For many measures, including real GDP growth (on which we concentrate), the performance gap is both large and statistically significant.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-...b_9065112.html


https://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/the...ive_president/

I mean there's heaps of comparisons like these, at the end of the day there's a lot of circumstances you'd have to take into account but the upshot is that at best you'd have to say that there's no strong evidence the Republicans perform better.

This whole right wing claim to fame with the economy? Little factual basis. It's all a dog and pony show for the gullible.

[Mayhem]

Both helps, but lowering the bureaucracy and taxes are the most important parts of political programs of every serious right-wing party. Are you from the USA? If so it might be hard for you to understand this as you have only two major political parties.

No, our left increased the spending on entrepreneurs and made it much easier and better for new businesses to start, our right, on the other hand, started helping already established businesses to fuck everyone and their workers over.

And no, cutting taxes for entrepreneurs doesn't make them create jobs, but it makes it easier for them to expand their company, which usually creates more jobs.

Oh, it doesn't now? Well then why the fuck did you write just that 3 posts ago?

[Gardoc]

No, our left increased the spending on entrepreneurs and made it much easier and better for new businesses to start, our right, on the other hand, started helping already established businesses to fuck everyone and their workers over.



Oh, it doesn't now? Well then why the fuck did you write just that 3 posts ago?

Can't you read? It's one of the consequences. That's like saying eating food doesn't make you less hungry because it's digesting that makes you less hungry.

And about left spending on entrepreneurs, that's not the point of the right. Right wing is there to make it easier for entrepreneurs, not to spend other peoples money on them.

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You say that, and yet pretty much the only US President in living memory to deliver a surplus was a Democrat.

Here's a few scorchers from Politifact kek:


Recessions more frequent under Republicans than Democrats
The stock market does better when you have a Democratic president in the White House.
Since 1961 … our private economy has produced 66 million private-sector jobs. So what's the jobs score? Republicans 24 million, Democrats 42

And a few more:


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-...b_9065112.html


https://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/the...ive_president/

I mean there's heaps of comparisons like these, at the end of the day there's a lot of circumstances you'd have to take into account but the upshot is that at best you'd have to say that there's no strong evidence the Republicans perform better.

This whole right wing claim to fame with the economy? Little factual basis. It's all a dog and pony show for the gullible.

I'm not qualified enough to comment on that, but my experience is that left-wing governments usually brag about economy situation after right-wing governments started it. But it might be different in the US as your presidents are in the office usually for 8 years which is long enough to show results of their policies.

BTW isn't your economy doing great right now under Trump? At least our media are saying that.

EDIT: It seems it is doing great, "Fifty-four percent of Americans say the economy is good or excellent, the highest recorded by CNBC in the 10 years of the survey." Is CNBC considered biased or not?

[Mayhem]

Can't you read? It's one of the consequences. That's like saying eating food doesn't make you less hungry because it's digesting that makes you less hungry.

No it's not. It can be one of the outcomes, it is by no means one of the consequences. It still relies on the product those entrepreneurs are selling, no amount of tax cuts will lead to job creation if they aren't selling anything.

And about left spending on entrepreneurs, that's not the point of the right. Right wing is there to make it easier for entrepreneurs, not to spend other peoples money on them.

But you're in favour of reducing their taxes, that IS other peoples money spent on them. It makes no fucking difference if you reduce their taxes and they are left with more money or you invest upfront while keeping the taxes equal and they are left with the same amount of money as with a tax cut. Also part of the programs the left implemented is to accompany them and help them with the legal frame work and building their business.

[Gardoc]

No it's not. It can be one of the outcomes, it is by no means one of the consequences. It still relies on the product those entrepreneurs are selling, no amount of tax cuts will lead to job creation if they aren't selling anything.



But you're in favour of reducing their taxes, that IS other peoples money spent on them. It makes no fucking difference if you reduce their taxes and they are left with more money or you invest upfront while keeping the taxes equal and they are left with the same amount of money as with a tax cut. Also part of the programs the left implemented is to accompany them and help them with the legal frame work and building their business.

I have to agree that some of these things seem nice. I like that your left is supporting entrepreneurs, our left-wing parties are usually anti-entrepreneur, that's why I get really passionate when talking about right vs left.
About that lowering the taxes vs supporting entrepreneurs, I think both approaches have their strong sides. The thing is that my father is an entrepreneur that started his business after the revolution. Nobody supported him, he had to pay for everything and he struggled for years before his company became successful. So since I was a child I've been taught that hard-working people should be rewarded and that without working there is no reward. That's why I support lowering the taxes, it is a reward for people that worked hard. Giving tax money to starting entrepreneurs feels like "rewarding" them even thought they didn't do anything.
That's why I hate EU grants as well, it only created wannabe entrepreneurs that don't know the value of the money and they don't care about their companies and people who work in them. Which is one of the thing you guys criticize.

[Mayhem]

I have to agree that some of these things seem nice. I like that your left is supporting entrepreneurs, our left-wing parties are usually anti-entrepreneur, that's why I get really passionate when talking about right vs left.
About that lowering the taxes vs supporting entrepreneurs, I think both approaches have their strong sides. The thing is that my father is an entrepreneur that started his business after the revolution. Nobody supported him, he had to pay for everything and he struggled for years before his company became successful. So since I was a child I've been taught that hard-working people should be rewarded and that without working there is no reward. That's why I support lowering the taxes, it is a reward for people that worked hard. Giving tax money to starting entrepreneurs feels like "rewarding" them even thought they didn't do anything.
That's why I hate EU grants as well, it only created wannabe entrepreneurs that don't know the value of the money and they don't care about their companies and people who work in them. Which is one of the thing you guys criticize.

That's what i meant with when talking about left vs. right, you can't compare the left unison to ex-communist countries and what they considered left. Heck you can't even compare what the US consider left in their country to most of the rest of the western worlds left or right.

[JohnBrown1917]

I'm not qualified enough to comment on that

So all this time you had no idea what you where talking about?

EDIT: It seems it is doing great, "Fifty-four percent of Americans say the economy is good or excellent, the highest recorded by CNBC in the 10 years of the survey." Is CNBC considered biased or not?

lol, 'the economy' is not subjective, and are we talking about the economy for the rich.. or?

[Slant]

Do you realize that tax cuts for entrepreneur boosts economy, lowers unemployment rate and highers pay for workers? Oh I forgot you leftist only care about welfare.

The top 1% of your country are not entrepeneurs. You seem to be missing some basic understanding of economics. Trickle down is a myth. It never worked.

[Gardoc]

So all this time you had no idea what you where talking about?



lol, 'the economy' is not subjective, and are we talking about the economy for the rich.. or?

Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted to say when I said I'm not qualified enough to comment on history of 45 US presidents, their economy policies and the result of their policies...

And no, there is no economy for the rich. Economy is the state of trade, production and consumption.

[JohnBrown1917]

And no, there is no economy for the rich. Economy is the state of trade, production and consumption.

Ye, this is what I mean, you have no idea what you're talking about, the economy does not benefit everybody equally. The US has huge wealth gaps and high poverty rates.

[Gardoc]

The top 1% of your country are not entrepeneurs. You seem to be missing some basic understanding of economics. Trickle down is a myth. It never worked.

Where exactly does it say that Trump's tax cut is only for top 1%? I though he reduced corporate tax for all businesses.

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Ye, this is what I mean, you have no idea what you're talking about, the economy does not benefit everybody equally. The US has huge wealth gaps and high poverty rates.

What? Economy only describes how is country doing economically. It shows how much goods are companies producing, how much are they trading, how much are people spending on goods and services. Read some definitions first, even reading wikipedia page would be enough.

[Slant]

Where exactly does it say that Trump's tax cut is only for top 1%? I though he reduced corporate tax for all businesses.

As I said, you don't seem to understand economics. But I'm done talking with you, you've taken up entirely too much of the attention here.

[Gardoc]

As I said, you don't seem to understand economics. But I'm done talking with you, you've taken up entirely too much of the attention here.

I agree, there's no point talking to a person, that explains nothing and only acts smart.