Leveling in WoW is pretty meh - discussion

[Jtbrig7390]

They just have to make Dungeons "interesting"

And by interesting i mean "hard"

Hard doesn't equal interesting even more so for a vast majority of people.

[Deficineiron]

You read it accurately.

Also remember that maximizing player fun is not Blizzard's goal! They benefit when you are having sufficient fun to keep playing. Beyond that, the fun is all consumer surplus that is of no benefit to Blizzard.

So, if too many people are having too much fun in some part of the game, Blizzard's incentive is to trade off that fun vs. other goals they have. Fun detected!

Also, modern blizzard equations have a separate component involving value-added as a separate calculation related to the fun level.

If they keep the fun level low, and provide insufficient rewards (returning a poor FUN quotient since participation/completion is poor, and that is what FUN is), there is a kicker in the Value-Added side equation where it begins to offset low fun and FUN for leveling content.

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Unfortunately this is probably the reason why leveling never be made better, especially with the obscene price Blizzard charges for level boosts. In GW2 I can buy a level boost for $20; 3x less than WoW.

a boost is 60 bucks?

that is really impressive. kudos to blizzard marketing for having the guts to go with such an aggressive price-point.

[shise]

Just buy 3 elixirs of the quick mind and go from 80 to 110 in about 3/4 hours.

[Osmeric]

I think all these years of account services has given them a pretty solid picture of what is acceptable and how far they can go.
60 bucks is a lot of money for inserting some rows into a database, but it seems we've accepted this reality :-)

Price is not determined by cost, it's determined by what the market will bear.

[Deficineiron]

I think all these years of account services has given them a pretty solid picture of what is acceptable and how far they can go.
60 bucks is a lot of money for inserting some rows into a database, but it seems we've accepted this reality :-) There are stray threads about the pricing, but no huge protests. We're OK with it, it seems.

In many cases, server changes end up being more expensive (main + couple of alts to a new server/faction is 50 bucks per toon)
I have guildies who shuffle races and names of their 10+ toons almost monthly because they're bored (15 bucks per toon)

this suggests there is a small % of players (not accounts) who are a very disproportionate % of revenue. I would love to see a graph describing revenue/account to see the far end you are talking about.

what do these players do in-game? do they provide a more rational justification for keeping very hard difficulty options in the game, because the players who play them tend to spend a lot more money with blizzard in wow than other players who don't play them?

there is something of an egalitarian bias here that blizz is doing wrong in making the super-hard levels for an extremely small group of players (presumably true) but it may not paint a complete picture - those players overall may spend multiples more on the game services etc. than other players.

[Deleted]

Hard doesn't equal interesting even more so for a vast majority of people.

What type of stimulation does your brain get from a "rofltomp"?

Plz tell me.

What in the actual hell does your brain get out of brainlessly doing a dungeon without thinking.

I say to IGNORE every person in the world that does get stimulated by a "roflstomp"
Just ignore those people exist.

Brain dead content is braindead content.

There is no way around that. Brain dead = Braind dead

Brain dead is stupid design.

Difficult = interesting

Not "hardcore difficult" but at least a challenge where you need to use your brain.

[Osmeric]

What type of stimulation does your brain get from a "rofltomp"?

Expressing outrage at a fact isn't actually an argument against said fact.

Most people do not like difficult content. This is demonstrated by stats. Deal with it.

[Deleted]

Expressing outrage at a fact isn't actually an argument against said fact.

Most people do not like difficult content. This is demonstrated by stats. Deal with it.

And i say ignore those people because its worth ignoring those people.

Give content for them if you want. Make a difficulty called "crying baby difficulty"
Problem solved.

Every single decent game has a chance to mess up aka die.

What are you trying to tell me?
Make the game brain dead because the majority of people enjoy braindead content?

[Deficineiron]

Expressing outrage at a fact isn't actually an argument against said fact.

Most people do not like difficult content. This is demonstrated by stats. Deal with it.

this is correct - the poster you respond to may not have realized that (bleeding edge $$$ customers aside) wow is not being made primarily for challenge-oriented gamers in most aspects. It is made to be a game that (at least in pve) everyone can beat.

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And i say ignore those stupid people because its worth ignoring those people.

Give content for them if you want. Make a difficulty called "crying baby difficulty"
Problem solved.

Every single decent game has a chance to mess up aka die.

What are you trying to tell me?
Make the game brain dead because the majority of people are stupid?

you are missing the single key element here - 'those people' you refer to have money as well, pay 15$/month like you, and there are a lot more of them, one assumes.

This is the market a/b chose to go after, and this is who they want. This is what 'make it more accessible to a much larger group of players' means, in implementation.

so you end up with a kind of pyramid, with a very large group of 15$ payers who do not want a hard game, then a narrowing field of increasing difficulty demands, BUT the revenue/customer varies also based on what kind of player they are. So it is hard to speculate about who is worth more to blizzard - because blizzard obviously wants all of them as customers.

[Flurryfang]

Leveling in WoW is broken beyond repair.
Blizzard needs to auto boost every new character to the minimum level of the current expansion.

Sorry to say, but i think people will not really connect to their characters if that is done. People in general need time to adjust to new classes and specs, and dumbing them right in the new expansion with all the tools already on your bar, is not gonna be a good experience.

[Deleted]

this is correct - the poster you respond to may not have realized that (bleeding edge $$$ customers aside) wow is not being made primarily for challenge-oriented gamers in most aspects. It is made to be a game that (at least in pve) everyone can beat.

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you are missing the single key element here - 'those people' you refer to have money as well, pay 15$/month like you, and there are a lot more of them, one assumes.

This is the market a/b chose to go after, and this is who they want.

Im sorry but there is a huge difference between "stupidly hard" and "interesting"
"Interesting" leaves oportunity to mess up and is possible to die.

Im not saying to make low level dungeons "stupidly hard".

Im saying to make them "interesting"

What? You think "brain dead" is interesting?

[Broken Fox]

Sorry to say, but i think people will not really connect to their characters if that is done. People in general need time to adjust to new classes and specs, and dumbing them right in the new expansion with all the tools already on your bar, is not gonna be a good experience.

I used to think this way but I boosted a Hunter last week for the Mage Tower and I connected with her just fine haha. Leveling as an "experience" died with Wrath for me.

[Flurryfang]

Hard doesn't equal interesting even more so for a vast majority of people.

While they are not totally equal, i will say that difficulty and interesting content have a link. If you are not challenged or stimulated during your play, you will find your mind drifting and your interest going other places. Feeling a sense of danger if you are not paying attention does keep people on their toes and creates enticing experiences.

[The Stormbringer]

I'd love it if we could at least make everyone at level 56, same as Death Knights.

[Flurryfang]

I used to think this way but I boosted a Hunter last week for the Mage Tower and I connected with her just fine haha. Leveling as an "experience" died with Wrath for me.

Well does that hunter then mean something for you? Do you have a relationship with them in anyway?

When i see people boost a character, they more than not discard them quickly afterwards if they are not in constant use, because people have not build up the "affection" for that character.

Also, i do think that there is a group of people, which this does not apply to completly, the people who have boosted characters and who sees the leveling as an obstacle instead of a gameexperience. You might be one of them.

[Deficineiron]

Im sorry but there is a huge difference between "stupidly hard" and "interesting"
"Interesting" leaves oportunity to mess up and is possible to die.

Im not saying to make low level dungeons "stupidly hard".

Im saying to make them "interesting"

What? You think "brain dead" is interesting?

You and I are talking from 2 very different perspectives.

You are talking like a player, and I can agree with your frustration. I started complaining in 3.0.8 about how easy wotlk heroics were. i can even link the thread. All this is fine, i am not a customer anymore, though I do play 1.12.

My viewpoint in these threads is the fortune 500 company making wow. they want as much money from as many customers as possible, and they make the game in the way that best achieves those goals.

[Deleted]

You and I are talking from 2 very different perspectives.

You are talking like a player, and I can agree with your frustration. I started complaining in 3.0.8 about how easy wotlk heroics were. i can even link the thread. All this is fine, i am not a customer anymore, though I do play 1.12.

My viewpoint in these threads is the fortune 500 company making wow. they want as much money from as many customers as possible, and they make the game in the way that best achieves those goals.

Im only interested in making low level dungeons "interesting".

The rest of the game is fine. There is an option for everyone. Easy and Hard.

But in the case of low level dungeons there is no option. Its braindead for everyone.

[Flurryfang]

Im only interested in making low level dungeons "interesting".

The rest of the game is fine. There is an option for everyone. Easy and Hard.

But in the case of low level dungeons there is no option. Its braindead for everyone.

Well, its not really brain dead completly, people can die if they make mistakes, actually quite easily if you don't have heirlooms. The problem is just that it is boring as hell, all fights are tank and spank, and some even take way too long.

[Deleted]

Well, its not really brain dead completly, people can die if they make mistakes, actually quite easily if you don't have heirlooms. The problem is just that it is boring as hell, all fights are tank and spank, and some even take way too long.

I didnt experience leveling after the "famous patch".

But before, i leveled from 15 to 70 without facing one single difficulty.
Only at level 70 i experienced one difficulty in one boss.
And it was amazingly fun. So fun i still remember it today.

I explained the tactics after the first wipe.

Everyone understood what had to be done and we cleared it at second try.

And it was amazing seeing the players doing the mechanincs.
Now that is "interesting" IMO.

[Broken Fox]

Well does that hunter then mean something for you? Do you have a relationship with them in anyway?

When i see people boost a character, they more than not discard them quickly afterwards if they are not in constant use, because people have not build up the "affection" for that character.

Also, i do think that there is a group of people, which this does not apply to completly, the people who have boosted characters and who sees the leveling as an obstacle instead of a gameexperience. You might be one of them.

Well like I said I used to feel that way during Wrath and maybe a bit after. A never liked boosted characters in any game, but it feels like such a slog now and the story is a complete mess anyway so the experience doesn't hold much weight anymore. It was just a giant chore. This time around, gearing up to 900ish and completing the Mage Tower was the bonding experience