Trump calls the European Union a 'foe' of the United States

[Ashnazg]

Yes, probably not. But as we know Russia does not understand what independent country making it's own decisions means, or why are they even making those decisions in the first place (or want to).

I think the problem is that Russia does not believe that those decisions are being made by an independent country (and frankly, neither do a lot of people outside of Russia).

In other words, for countries like Ukraine, the choice is whether your president is selling himself and his country to US and the pro-Western block, or Russia (and in the near future, perhaps China as well). Russia is, of course, disadvantaged there because US and co have a lot more clout and monetary resources - they can outbid Russia quite easily.

[Slant]

I think the problem is that Russia does not believe that those decisions are being made by an independent country (and frankly, neither do a lot of people outside of Russia).

In other words, for countries like Ukraine, the choice is whether your president is selling himself and his country to US and the pro-Western block, or Russia (and in the near future, perhaps China as well). Russia is, of course, disadvantaged there because US and co have a lot more clout and monetary resources - they can outbid Russia quite easily.

Isn't that the point? I mean, people don't make decisions based on what gets them the least money. People want to live carefree lives. Usually, more money makes that a simpler goal to achieve. People aren't flocking to the West because we suppress them better. They're flocking to the West, because for some reason, enlightenment and free people seem to perform better. What a radical thought...

[akris15]

Full well expecting Trump to announce the sanctions being dropped during the joint press conference they last minute announced would now be held. Something about strengthening the bond between our countries, the EU being bad, etc.

And watch every Republican donor shit a brick in the process...

[Thekri]

tanks don't take the freeway though

Yeah we do. We take any route we damn well please. The two Gulf Wars made it painfully obvious how damn fast Armored forces can go in the modern era once they crack the defensive line. The problem is logistics...


"Amateurs talk tactics, professionals study logistics"

[Ashnazg]

Isn't that the point? I mean, people don't make decisions based on what gets them the least money. People want to live carefree lives. Usually, more money makes that a simpler goal to achieve. People aren't flocking to the West because we suppress them better. They're flocking to the West, because for some reason, enlightenment and free people seem to perform better. What a radical thought...

The bigger point is that in places like Ukraine, the wealth that the president might receive for his "pro-west" stance, does not trickle down to the people. It specifically benefits him and his circle of friends - the oligarchs and the well-connected. The commoners are shafted either way.

[alexw]

With this and the NATO attacks constantly, I don't think many Trump supporters even realize why it's so good for us to stay involved. You see so many comments about why we should go isolationist but the only fucking people who benefit from that is Russia.

NATO and our EU relationship are not only for mutual defense but also ensure the US has long lasting power on the world stage. We invest more into shit like NATO than other countries, but we also end up with the loudest and most important voice in the room on more issues than just defense. It ensures that in pretty much any matter between us and western allies, we get to keep the biggest dick in the room and be allowed to keep swinging it.

So what happens if we leave? Oh man we get a couple billion that goes back into our defense funding that mostly goes to line the pockets of defense contractors and their shareholders. Meanwhile, Russia gains influence and gets emboldened and we have to go sit at the kids table while the rest of the world prospers.

Correct. The whole point of NATO is that it allows the United States to maintain "Pax Americana" which benefits not only the US but also its allies.

The US benefits because its the dominant power so has the most say on the world stage, and with the help of its allies dominates all rivals meaning it doesn't have to fight big stupid costly wars with them (whether it itself decides to wage big stupid costly wars is another matter entirely). Its allies benefit because they get peace and wars aren't fought on their territory, while they also don't have to spend excessive amounts of money on their militaries.

So if NATO is torn up not only is the US very much weakened, but it also sets the stage for a rival to itself being created via the EU, while they also have to waste lots of money on armies and weapons which are only good for blowing stuff up when they'd much rather spend it on something else.

[Slant]

The bigger point is that in places like Ukraine, the wealth that the president might receive for his "pro-west" stance, does not trickle down to the people. It specifically benefits him and his circle of friends - the oligarchs and the well-connected. The commoners are shafted either way.

Well, yes. But corruption isn't influenced much by where the money comes from. Just that it flows. So West or East isn't going to solve that problem. The country has to solve it from within. This is a problem we encounter in some of the Eastern European EU member states. The EU can't tell them to not be corrupt and expect them to just do it. They have to want to do it. Democratically. All by themselves.

[Deleted]

High stake game that he is playing at. Piss off the world in the hopes that it will help with support at home.

[Jastall]

The prime concern of the Baltics is Russia. They are not concerned about the immigration happening in Italy, Greece and Spain - because they are on the other side of the continent. Just one example.

Just as the Spanish don't care about the Russian problem - they are very keen on hosting their submarines in their ports for replenishment.
If you think there is any kind of unity in this ''Union'', you are painfully delusional. The asymmetry of interests is palpable.

That sounds like any country in the world. People here in Quebec or in Ontario mostly don't give a shit about oil spills as we have few pipelines, people in BC care because the pipelines going to Asia are on their turf, and people in Alberta would rather see more pipelines everywhere because Albertan oil-related jobs depend on them. Democracy, discussion and diplomacy is the fine art of making these interests cooperate for a greater good of everyone involved.

You can find countless more examples in the US, Russia or any large country. Hell even smaller ones; water rationing is a non-issue in northern France, but a large concern in southern Côte d'azur for instance.

[Realitytrembles]

NATO and our EU relationship are not only for mutual defense but also ensure the US has long lasting power on the world stage. We invest more into shit like NATO than other countries, but we also end up with the loudest and most important voice in the room on more issues than just defense. It ensures that in pretty much any matter between us and western allies, we get to keep the biggest dick in the room and be allowed to keep swinging it.

The US should not be a part of anything unless we are in control of it.

I don't give a single solitary crap if we "have power on the world stage". All that matters is this: can we defend the 50 states/territories/commonwealths from any possible attack?

With the US nuclear arsenal, the answer is yes.

So: f this ungrateful, whining world. Without the US's intervention, most of you would now be saluting 1 of these three flags: the swastika, the hammer & sickle, or the rising sun.

[Daelak]

.............

Where are all the cowardly Trump supporters and their spineless conservative accessories to this shitshow?

- - - Updated - - -

So much love from our ally...

Hes just priming his throat for some more authoritarian dictator cock gobbling.

[Deleted]

the rising sun.

lol u say that as if it was a bad thing, japan has always been a good and honorable country

[Low Hanging Fruit]

So much love from our ally...

I think Trump is a piece of shit. But how much love does America really get from these allies? Even before Trump? Let us be frank for a bit... with me stating again Trump is a piece of shit... Europe has really looked down upon and whenever it could taken a giant piss on the United States minus a couple nations that actually have been for the most part friendly.

[Wyrt]

I think Trump is a piece of shit. But how much love does America really get from these allies? Even before Trump? Let us be frank for a bit... with me stating again Trump is a piece of shit... Europe has really looked down upon and whenever it could taken a giant piss on the United States minus a couple nations that actually have been for the most part friendly.

Um, Europe followed the US into war with under NATO article 5.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Um, Europe followed the US into war with under NATO article 5.

Yeah and then talked total shit about the US constantly. Even about that war. Takes next to no responsibility and just blames the US for all its issues. Some nations followed the US right on in with 25 troops taking a vacation in the sun at the airport. Once you get past the symbol you see it was just that... a lot of lookie lookie and talkie talkie but when it came to actual action only a couple nations were even worth the plane ticket.

[pathora44]

Can Trump be removed from office already he is clearly harmful to America. He shits on, antagonizes, and berates our allies many for close to or over a century and yet he props up our enemies. Yes Trumpsters Russia is our enemy no matter how much you love the Motherland she is our enemy. Funny how back in the 50's and 60's Republicans were leading the charge in trying to take down Russia and all the Communist. Yet no matter how much you protest you seem to love Russia and the Communist now.

[Bakis]

I think Trump is a piece of shit. But how much love does America really get from these allies? Even before Trump? Let us be frank for a bit... with me stating again Trump is a piece of shit... Europe has really looked down upon and whenever it could taken a giant piss on the United States minus a couple nations that actually have been for the most part friendly.

How much love:
More intelligence information sharing than any other country or partner
Some join US wars when asked to
Trading agreements
Counter terrorism agreements
Western culture and shared values
Tons of people with relatives thriving in US/EU
Bilateral arms development
Joint military excercises

Just throwing stuff out there since I'm busy but the US and EU always thrived and always should thrive from being close allies.

[Wyrt]

Yeah and then talked total shit about the US constantly. Even about that war. Takes next to no responsibility and just blames the US for all its issues. Some nations followed the US right on in with 25 troops taking a vacation in the sun at the airport. Once you get past the symbol you see it was just that... a lot of lookie lookie and talkie talkie but when it came to actual action only a couple nations were even worth the plane ticket.

Because Bush was a fucking moron. Obama did a lot of work to repair the damage that Bush did. Now Trump is undoing all of that.

And don't act like the US wasn't insulting Europe either.

[Deleted]

Yeah and then talked total shit about the US constantly. Even about that war. Takes next to no responsibility and just blames the US for all its issues. Some nations followed the US right on in with 25 troops taking a vacation in the sun at the airport. Once you get past the symbol you see it was just that... a lot of lookie lookie and talkie talkie but when it came to actual action only a couple nations were even worth the plane ticket.

the us gets everything it deserves, we havent forgotten about their "freedom fries" insults, there will come a day on which the us will pay dearly for it all

[Thekri]

Yeah and then talked total shit about the US constantly. Even about that war. Takes next to no responsibility and just blames the US for all its issues. Some nations followed the US right on in with 25 troops taking a vacation in the sun at the airport. Once you get past the symbol you see it was just that... a lot of lookie lookie and talkie talkie but when it came to actual action only a couple nations were even worth the plane ticket.

I have stood at ramp ceremonies for both Romanians and Poles as they left Afghanistan in body bags. Over 1/3 of all coalition dead in Afghanistan were from European nations. Take a look at this list, and tell me our allies don't back us. Your narrow world view does not reflect reality.


Outside of war this is even more evident. Sanctions against rogue nations like Iran, Russia, or North Korea would be completely toothless without our allies participating. The block of allies that the US leads (or at least used to lead until 2016) was capable of shutting a rogue nation completely off from world trade. Our alliances don't just allow us to be the balance for nations like China and Russia, they allow us to completely eliminate threats from those quarters with words and trade. That block of alliances has prevented major wars on domestic soil for every one of those allies for nearly 80 years. We have been living under Pax Americana, and one moron can collapse it, just as Commodus destroyed Pax Romana.