Theory: Players dont know why they dislike or like an expansion anymore

[Vorkreist]

"There were never "bad expansions" of WoW."
Tell that to warlords of no content.

Or to Battle for Last remaining subs

[OreoLover]

Or to Battle for Last remaining subs

Dang, time traveler spoilers...

OP: You don't know why you dislike things?

[RoKPaNda]

I think that people have trouble forming their own opinions and just roll with whatever popular youtubers/twitch streamers/etc say. They just assume that because someone is popular in the community that they must be smart. Take the AP grinding and Titanforging complaints. Neither of those was an issue for 95% of the playerbase but people whined and screamed because their Youtube heroes whined and screamed.

As a Mythic raider the AP grind sucked because in Nighthold there were bosses tuned around having your artifact maxed out. This sucked because it was a pretty decent grind and you had to do it for each spec that you may raid on. Didn't affect anyone else and yet the forums is filled with screaming.

Titanforging was probably the biggest non-issue of the expansion and one of the most cried about things. Again because people not smart enough to understand basic probability blew the whole thing out of proportion. It's a pretty well laid out system. Nobody is running around decked out in Mythic level gear from LFR. Getting a decent piece that's even Mythic base from LFR is like hitting the lottery. Watcher said it himself, you can expect one piece of gear from Normal to Titanforge to Mythic levels per tier in a normal length tier. That's NOTHING. We can look at armories to see that on average you'll get 2-3 pieces from heroic in a normal length tier that are Mythic base or higher. Again not a huge deal. By far the biggest source of gear that's Mythic level outside of Mythic raids is from M+. Which isn't a titanforging problem.

The only time a problem exists is when we do exploitative behavior like splitfarming where we funnel gear and end up with more titanforged gear per character than intended. The system as it is designed is absolutely fine and anyone whining about it devaluing anything just don't understand it or are raiding for the wrong reasons. Thankfully with the death of split farming in the coming expansion (armor class stacking is going to happen for about 5 minutes before people realize it's not worth it with personal loot and ilevel trading restrictions.)

This community loves complaining about things that aren't issues or things they don't understand and that's been the case since at least BC. In BC people complained about "Welfare epics" from PvP that were pretty awful compared to their PvE counterparts. (Unless you were ret and then your S3 (or was it S4?) gloves were pretty great.)

In WLK it was "Heroic dungeons are too easy!" which didn't matter because in Burning Crusade people only ever did the easy Heroic dungeons with any regularity. Or when Blizzard changed how badges worked and people cried about how much casualization that was.

[kamuimac]

oh i know what i dislike. anything revolving around pvp, that's why im gonnna flip the finger at blizzard and give the warmode a big pass. if i get bored without the pvp bonuses i stop playing. its as easy as going to a movie and not liking it. i just get up and leave. not this isnt a rant or anything. just my 2 cents, not trying to influence anyone to do the same as me.

you should use it at least during leveling night due to how leveling is structured in BfA.

its literaly waste to not use it.

[Accendor]

So here is a theory of mine. Not exaclty a conspiracy theory, is more of a theory doubting human feelings towards something. In this case, WoW expansions.

Theory:
There were never "bad expansions" of WoW.
Every single expansion offered the basics of every single other expansion. (Dungeons, Raids, Transmogs, Bg's, Arena, Dailies, catchup mechanincs etc)

So the theory goes that when the majority of players hate on one expansion in particular is because they are tired of the same game they played for 10 years.
Thats it.
They tell you excuses as to why they hated the expansion but in reality they are just burned out of the same old game. (example: Cataclysm, MoP, WoD)

Which leads me to my next point: Legion
Why was legion so well received?

Because it made something *new* never before seen in any other expansion.
It offered change and countless new features. Making the game feel "fresh" again to all this people "who are tired of the same game"

It offered:
-World Quests
-Artifact Weapon
-Class Hall
-Followers NPC's in outworld
-Mythic + Dungeons and Weekly Chest in Class Hall
-New Transmogrification System
-War/Titanforge
-Legiondaries
-Scaling Zones
-Suramar
-PvP Templates
-PvP Talents
-Prestige System

Basically Blizzard overwhelmed us with *new things*.
Things that made us forget we are playing the same game.
Thats why legion was so well received imo
Because it seemed fresh and new compared to any other old expansion.

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TLDR:
People have no idea why they dislike one expansion.
The truth is they are just tired of the same old mechanics they have been playing for 10 years so they start balming random stuff.
Once Blizzard "overwhelms" us with *new stuff* it suddennly becomes a "good expansion"

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What do you guys think?
Its just a theory, im not saying its the truth

I think your theory is wrong.

[Swalload]

Here's why, for every xpacks:

TBC
While it didn't offer anything new really, it was just an expansion made of the things Blizzard wanted to put in the main game but couldn't because they bit much bigger than they could chew. Flying mounts were the only thing new basically. The xpack was well received because at this point in the game people wanted more of the same, most people were nowhere near done or burned out, nothing felt old yet, so more of the same with a little extra and class improvement was perfect at this time.

Wrath
This xpack introduced a bunch fo new features during it's time and it shifted the focus of the game from leveling to endgame heavily by making a leveling phaze overall not so exciting but very good raids. It timed well in the evolution of the game and people were happy about that.

Cata
This felt like a step back, the xpack contains the most work Blizzard has ever done but it was not where people wanted it. Revamping old zones? No one really gave a shit even if it was mostly a well done job. The leveling process was very cool but right after Wrath, that felt like regression, people were in the mood to turn their brain off during lvling and reach the new raids, which were mostly shit, endgame of Cata was bad and that's what the focus of the game became since Wrath, so people hated Cata.

MoP
While there was a lot of doubt about this and bad fir impression because Pandas are legit retarded and come from a joke drawing that was put in WC3 for the lols without real background lore o support them, it showed very badly in Pandaria, it was all duct taped together and forced into a universe where they don't really belong. It was a hard pill to swallow, but at least the game went back into focus: the most terrible leveling experience to date with shitty cutscenes and annoying Lorewalker Cho talking all the time, but counterbalanced with amazing class design and mostly very fun raids. This xpack went from hated to loved.

WoD
One of the most overhyped xpack ever, basically a reverse MoP. Best first impression, most hyped xpack, the return to outland was a big deal and very much welcomed. But once again an xpack with upside down focus: awesome lvling experience, terrible end-game. So it did the opposite of MoP, it was loved at first and is now considered the worst xpack ever.

Legion
Did surprising well after everyone was disgusted by WoD. Lots of new feature, okay leveling and actually nice endgame with a lot of content and very good pacing of new content release. While it has some glaring flaws, it also has some very awesome stuff, overall it was liked. M+ changed the game.

BfA
We shall see, so far it has potential, but this potential is being held back by scary flaws.

[caervek]

What do you guys think?
Its just a theory, im not saying its the truth

Put simply I think you're wrong.

When you look at the way WoW has evolved over the years there is a GIGANTIC disconnect between MoP and WoD. At that point the new design team switched from the concept WoW had had since it's inception (evolving the game to try and cater to what players want and make it the game people will want to play) to a new one (making it the game the new dev team want people to play). With this we saw the removal of 10m mythic, the removal of flight, the end of scenarios, less group content, less solo content, etc.

WoD and to a lesser degree Legion were not the same game we had played since 2004, they were a change of direction, an offshoot with many many popular things removed and that's why they caught so much hate (for the removal of those things, unlike WoD Legion was a good expansion just not on par with any of the pre-WoD ones from a high end raiding PoV or a solo exploration/questing PoV).

[Deleted]

You haven't read enough then, I've read it more than one time. And frankly they are getting the money from you, because if you don't buy it, they don't get it. Yeah it may not be out of your pocket, but you are still supporting it just as if it were.

I see where are you pointing to - your are all about supporting Blizzard. Personally, I dont care about support, whether they benefit or not. I am not emotionally involved like you, I just see myself as customer. If WoW dies tomorrow, I wouldnt blink an eye. Next day I would find some other fun for me.

[Justpassing]

My theory: Your theory is shit.
My suggestion: Stop trying to patronize masses of people you know literally nothing about.

[The Stormbringer]

Holy cow, when i was doing this thread i was 100% sure someone was going to say that.
I was typing and thinking exactly that.

Its just a theory. My theory.

I put a lot of thought into it...

A GAAAAAME theory!

Honestly I think you're onto something, but you're also missing part of the picture. Yes, lots of new things do help distract and pull people in, but there's more to it than that. Themes are important, as is consistent content, and a balance between grinding and unique features. More than that, too, and plenty of things I can't think of.

[owbu]

Telling people why they actually dislike something, either makes them dislike you, because you are wrong or because you attacked their belive, that they have total control over their action/thougts. Neither of those gets you anywhere.


Also, I think you are trying to prove that WoD wasn't shit, because it technically had all the base concepts of WoW. Using the same logic, I could prove that every single random asset flip survival game on steam is actually a good survival game, because they all have shooting, monsters and bars that tick down. WoD was shit, because it had less content than the other xpacs and also fucked up world content, one of the 3 important pillars of wow.

[Deleted]

What do you guys think?
Its just a theory, im not saying its the truth

I think you should define players with individual examples and then come the conclusion that you should not pluralize like that ever again.

[The Stormbringer]

Telling people why they actually dislike something, either makes them dislike you, because you are wrong or because you attacked their belive, that they have total control over their action/thougts. Neither of those gets you anywhere.

Also, I think you are trying to prove that WoD wasn't shit, because it technically had all the base concepts of WoW. Using the same logic, I could prove that every single random asset flip survival game on steam is actually a good survival game, because they all have shooting, monsters and bars that tick down. WoD was shit, because it had less content than the other xpacs and also fucked up world content, one of the 3 important pillars of wow.

World content-wise: It did introduce rare/vignettes in the world, though. I'm a fan of those, even if it seems like they've not put quite the same level of effort into making them post-WoD. It also added 'bonus areas', which were basically just another flavor of quests, but were still interesting. Oh, and grabbing treasures and things everywhere! Shame they killed my favorite part about it which was the XP bonus...

[ceall]

I can tell you exactly why I liked or disliked an expansion, here it goes:

-wrath, liked it because I am a wrath baby.

-cata, liked it for its iteration of shadow priest and (initially) hard heroic dungeons, hated it because of mini raids (FL and DS), dailies (esp. FL dailies)

-mop, liked it because of atmosphere, landscape, tot and soo, hated it because of the beginning of the downfall of shadow priest (which is still going on ever since), waaaay too many dailies (which were mandatory until the tot patch), 14 month of soo

-wod, liked it for leveling and some raid bosses (e.g. Hans and Franz), hated it for pretty much anything else, especially 14 months of HFC, the twitter patch, basically no new content (tanaan was only good for catch up and unlocking flying tbh)

-Legion, liked it for m+, Raiding, WQs, AP (after getting fixed) artifacts (I love my knaifu), disliked (not hated) for me being generally unlucky with legendaries (getting one every 3-6 weeks, while others get one a week) throughout the entire expansion


This was my 1000th post BTW

[owbu]

World content-wise: It did introduce rare/vignettes in the world, though. I'm a fan of those, even if it seems like they've not put quite the same level of effort into making them post-WoD. It also added 'bonus areas', which were basically just another flavor of quests, but were still interesting. Oh, and grabbing treasures and things everywhere! Shame they killed my favorite part about it which was the XP bonus...

Yeah, I agree that WoD had tons of new little inventions and system that helped make WoW better in the long run.

[The Stormbringer]

Yeah, I agree that WoD had tons of new little inventions and system that helped make WoW better in the long run.

Yay.

Honestly, I think the Garrison could've worked out better too, but it fell short. Maybe if they'd given us the 4th Tier that was datamined, or added more customization, or the ability to move it to different zones like they'd originally planned. I dunno.

[Kelathos]

OP, I know exactly what I like or dislike.

Cata was bad because Dragon Soul was a bad raid, and an even worse patch to follow up after the short Firelands and great Molten Front. What made Cata a disaster was the change to raiding. Soon as 10man loot equaled 25, many 25man guilds collapsed as the recruitment pool for their revolving door stopped. My guild collapsed on the first tier. I joined my friend's guild on another server (which only had an opening due to this issue) and they collapsed between the second and third tiers. Cataclysm crushed many raid guilds with the change from from WoTLK.

Warlords had great zones to level in, great raids, and nothing else to do. And it was a raid tier short. A great disappointment after Pandaria's pace of content and Island patches. Which, btw, Isle of Thunder remains the best patch in WoW history.

Blizzard fixed raiding with Flex, and Legion had the most content ever. Between World Quests and Mythic + dungeons, we had a lot more to do than login, raid, and logout. Vast improvement over Warlords. Legion's failures were in itemization and RNG.

[Deleted]

I really liked Mists, overall. It felt like there was always something to do- dailies, farming, the new pet battles- the zones told interesting (for the most part) stories, especially the stories related to the expansion's raids. It felt like it was trying to say something different to us than previous expansions- that there's value to holding on to the beauty of the world, and that when we fight for something, it shouldn't be at the cost of everything else. Many of my friends returned for Mists, and they stuck around... until, of course, the announcement of WoD and the drudgery of 13 months of SoO.

WoD.... man. Where do I even start. Totally spit on whatever story Mists had tried to tell. Gave us almost nothing to do at max level except... wait. In our Garrisons. Cut the things I'd been most excited for- picking a zone for your garrison, Karabor as the Alliance capital city- a second-tier raid that just felt like SoO all over again, and drove away the rest of my friends who'd stuck around. The first time I considered quitting the game, because I was no longer raiding... or playing, really.

But why did you like MoP and disliked WoD?
By what i am reading is all "subjective" stuff like "story" and "personal preference" and "the beauty of the world"

In WoD there were still dailies. There were still catch up mechanics.

AH, an inportant factor.
You were no longer raiding in WOD

That is huge

Maybe WoD was the expansion where you relized the game was almost all "raid or die"?
The rest of the things you pointed out seem to be very subjective like "story" and "world"

And ofcourse, another huge thing, you had your friends in MoP.
That is also huge in comparison to the expansion (WoD) where you had no friends.

TLDR: What im trying to say is:
Maybe, just maybe, isnt it possible that the reason why you hated WoD compared to MoP was all subjective and maybe you just started realizing the flaws of the base game (the same old game)?
Because you lost your friends in WoD and you stopped raiding...so you started realizing that the game for a "non raider" was not "fun enough".
What is the difference between MoP and WoD for a non raider?
MoP had Timeless Isle.
Isnt it all the difference?
Maybe the problem is that MoP and WoD were very similiar.

Maybe

[Nutrition]

But why did you like MoP and disliked WoD?
By what i am reading is all "subjective" stuff like "story" and "personal preference" and "the beauty of the world"

In WoD there were still dailies. There were still catch up mechanics.

AH, an inportant factor.
You were no longer raiding in WOD

That is huge

Maybe WoD was the expansion where you relized the game was almost all "raid or die"?
The rest of the things you pointed out seem to be very subjective like "story" and "world"

And ofcourse, another huge thing, you had your friends in MoP.
That is also huge in comparison to the expansion (WoD) where you had no friends.

TLDR: What im trying to say is:
Maybe, just maybe, isnt it possible that the reason why you hated WoD compared to MoP was all subjective and maybe you just started realizing the flaws of the base game (the same old game)?
Because you lost your friends in WoD and you stopped raiding...so you started realizing that the game for a non raider was not "fun enough".

Maybe

It's just rewards... if bad players are not given enough or given to much they quit. They play for rewards it's why titanforging and artifact appeal so much to them. No matter how much they suck they can keep " progressing".

[Deleted]

It's just rewards... if bad players are not given enough or given to much they quit. They play for rewards it's why titanforging and artifact appeal so much to them. No matter how much they suck they can keep " progressing".

Im just trying to understand why is MoP different to WoD.
What did MoP had that WoD didnt.

Because in my eyes it had all the exact same things...less timeless isle.