[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Granyala]

Modest being a loose term.

You can be capped on tomes within a few days.

Irrelevant, it is still farming, a.k.a. grind.

No way to weasel out of this one, I'm afraid.

[Eleccybubb]

Irrelevant, it is still farming, a.k.a. grind.

No way to weasel out of this one, I'm afraid.

Not attempting to. I don't consider it a grind personally.

[Melsiren]

Not attempting to. I don't consider it a grind personally.

I call it playing the game.

Recently I have not been able to dedicate much time to MMOs but just playing ff14 casually I find myself capping.

[lawow74]

That's cos the real definition of grind is 'something I force myself to do in order to get something I want'.

[Eleccybubb]

That's cos the real definition of grind is 'something I force myself to do in order to get something I want'.

HAH.

I love you Lawow

- - - Updated - - -

I call it playing the game.

Recently I have not been able to dedicate much time to MMOs but just playing ff14 casually I find myself capping.

Same.

You are playing the game to upgrade your characters stats in an RPG. Sounds pretty much like every RPG out there.

[Rogalicus]

Then farm some gear.
-snip-

I appreciate your attempt to help, but I'm already higher than 350 and I never said that gearing up in FFXIV is hard. I just don't like sudden gear walls in story content for no apparent reasons, especially if said content doesn't even drop gear making the requirement absolutely pointless. It's like if you watch Empire Strikes Back, finally reach the moment when Luke confronts Darth Vader on Bespin and then Vader says "Hey, Luke, you are not worthy to face me, go farm AT-ATs on Hoth Anemos and then come back here".

[Eleccybubb]

I appreciate your attempt to help, but I'm already higher than 350 and I never said that gearing up in FFXIV is hard. I just don't like sudden gear walls in story content for no apparent reasons, especially if said content doesn't even drop gear making the requirement absolutely pointless. It's like if you watch Empire Strikes Back, finally reach the moment when Luke confronts Darth Vader on Bespin and then Vader says "Hey, Luke, you are not worthy to face me, go farm AT-ATs on Hoth Anemos and then come back here".

So you're 350. Aka the walls don't affect you?

And please there are god knows how many sources outside of Eureka. Use them. Farm the gear.

Stop pinpointing Eureka as a lone source. It's a starting source and nothing more. Takes a few hours at most to get the 335 weapon and armor.

You wanna come back? Fine but play the catchup game just like in nearly every other game of this genre.

[Rogalicus]

So you're 350. Aka the walls don't affect you?

And please there are god knows how many sources outside of Eureka. Use them. Farm the gear.

Aka I'm 350 long after I've killed Tsuyu, when I reached that part of the story I was around 328.

[Eleccybubb]

Aka I'm 350 long after I've killed Tsuyu, when I reached that part of the story I was around 328.

So 7 ilvls below it?

Seriously you are complaining about SEVEN item levels?

Literally TWO off the new dungeon?

Yeah I would have told you to go farm gear at 328 as well. That is not that far behind. I would have said get to 330, unlock the new dungeon, get some 345 pieces and voila. Hell I probably would have given you a spare 350 HQ since for some reason I bought loads and never levelled most of the jobs intended for them.

[Eleccybubb]

I don't know why you keep making this personal. Just discuss the topic, stop coming at everyone personally.

Nobody is making it personal. Stop playing the victim card for others.

Although why I responded to you after ignoring you is beyond me. My own fault there I guess.

[Rogalicus]

Tsuku requirement: 335
Skalla Drops: 315
Hells Lid (Not even actually MSQ technically) Drops: 325

Swallow's Compass drops 345 gear, but it's very hard to get anything for obscure jobs like NIN and DRG since they have dedicated suffixes.

[Eleccybubb]

Swallow's Compass drops 345 gear, but it's very hard to get anything for obscure jobs like NIN and DRG since they have dedicated suffixes.

You have just as much chance to get a Scouting/NIN piece as you do a Fending piece. The fact the NIN pieces are more restricted to jobs doesn't change that.

I've seen a boatload of Scouting/NIN pieces drop from that place.

Hell I'd have happily run you through it but I'm not sure if you are on EU servers.

[Rogalicus]

You have just as much chance to get a Scouting/NIN piece as you do a Fending piece.

I've seen a boatload of Scouting/NIN pieces drop from that place.

Probably RNG hates me, since around 80% of drops there were Healing or Fending.

[Eleccybubb]

Probably RNG hates me, since around 80% of drops there were Healing or Fending.

I know the feeling.

But the lower job affixes still have the same chance to drop. I know it feels like it might be because Scouting gear has less jobs associated with it but it isn't.

I'm farming the Ballad Set for BRD in LOTA. I have to deal with belts dropping from Bone Dragon because ARR raids only drop 1 piece per boss.

[lawow74]

I guess they figure requiring them for Expert is enough? I'm happy not to bother with them, personally. To reiterate, I do agree the 20 ilvl jump there seems excessive, but I suspect it's to try and rope people into playing more (increased sub time, more use of content added, to-may-toe/tow-mah-tow) instead of spending a day during a free login event catching up on the MSQ and not playing again until a new one pops up.

[Soluna]

You have just as much chance to get a Scouting/NIN piece as you do a Fending piece. The fact the NIN pieces are more restricted to jobs doesn't change that.

I've seen a boatload of Scouting/NIN pieces drop from that place.

Hell I'd have happily run you through it but I'm not sure if you are on EU servers.

The way you defend that stupid FF XIV decision makes me think of Slipmat, the guy you fight with about Rift, you are no better than him at this poijt. Just accept that others have different opinions bro. Dont be the Slipmat of FF XIV.

[Eleccybubb]

The way you defend that stupid FF XIV decision makes me think of Slipmat, the guy you fight with about Rift, you are no better than him at this poijt. Just accept that others have different opinions bro. Dont be the Slipmat of FF XIV.

You do have as much chance to get the NIN piece as any other job. It literally is just poor RNG on Rog's side. I'm not saying that to be rude to him it's just the way the game can be.

I know what Rog is feeling. He's feeling that because RNG isn't on his side it might be lower. We all feel that.

And I do accept others have opinions. Just like I'm allowed to disagree with them. However when someone pulls some victim card bs with it then I just stop conversing with them. Simple as that. As I did with the fellow in here.

I'm not defending the decision. Personally I'm not fussed. I'd happily help players get the gear needed and it's really not much of a grind. It's literally playing the game. Hell I give players HQ 350 gear every so often to help them out. And new 50s the 115 stuff from Ishgard since they can't go there yet. And new 60s HQ 255 gear.

Swallows isn't an MSQ dungeon because the Four Lords this time are like the Warring Triad. A side story. However they could have done the same thing with Byakko and have it branch off to that side story during the MSQ. The decision being stupid is subjective. Could it have been better handled? Probably.

And please I've been plenty critical of this game as of late. Especially Eureka. I mean if you want I could throw down all my critique now?

[StrawberryZebra]

I don't mind a lot of buttons, if all of those button presses have meaning and take a decision, the combo system in FFXIV doesn't require decision making at all.

More people need to be aware of this I feel. It's not that extra buttons are bad, if there's never a time where you'll ever decide to use the finisher part of the combo without first using the other two attacks. You will never choose to stop the combo after the first or second hit. You're always locked into the same 1-2-3 pattern, even when it's not really interesting gameplay.

The fact that you have extra buttons to press, but no extra choices to make with them means they're not adding anything of value.

For combos, they don't necessarily have to be 1-button per combo. They could do like fighting games, where A-A-B gives one combo, and A-B-B gives a different combo. You can compress almost all FFXIV combos down to 3 buttons or so, but still have up to 27 different combos if you want.

It's certainly one idea around the problem. Embracing the idea completely and allowing you to combo your weaker attacks into any of your stronger ones would lead to some interesting decisions not only with your current set of combo skills, but also opens up combo routes including all of your most powerful attacks and cooldowns.

I do worry though that such a system could end up being a little bit too complicated. There would be a pretty significant burden of knowledge placed on the player to learn those optimal combo routes based on what's available at any one time. It would undoubtably end up with massive flow charts detailing how to play your job perfectly over 3 minute intervals that everyone would be expected to learn and execute.

Some of you guys here seem completely incapable of having a discussion without feeling as if the game is somehow under siege by extremists. As far as I've followed this thread, only @Wrecktangle, and to some degree @Faroth are occasionally able to have intelligent discussion without getting defensive and making passive-aggressive remarks. This thread, imo, is FAR more engaging when people have disagreements on game design, nobody is out to kill the game. Relax.

I do try keep things both civil and productive. I'm aware that I may not always come across that way, but I make sure I'm addressing points people have brought up rather than resorting to personal attacks.

I'm always open and honest when it comes to my thoughts and ideas on the game. I know those aren't always going to line up with what others want, but I'm going to keep putting them out there anyway. I'm not going to take it personally if you disagree with me, and I hope no one else takes me disagreeing with them to heart either. At the end of the day, those disagreements wouldn't be happening if we weren't all so invested into the game to begin with.

I realise that has led me to having pages long disagreements with others here in the past, most notably with @Faroth. I don't have any problems with him as a person, but I do disagree with some of what he would like FF14 to be in the future. I'm fine with that, I like that he offers different ideas and opinions to my own. I hope he's okay with it too.

If that has upset anyone then I appologise. I'm not trying to foster an environment of negativity, only one of discussion. If I cross the line then please let me know.

[Eleccybubb]

More people need to be aware of this I feel. It's not that extra buttons are bad, if there's never a time where you'll ever decide to use the finisher part of the combo without first using the other two attacks. You will never choose to stop the combo after the first or second hit. You're always locked into the same 1-2-3 pattern, even when it's not really interesting gameplay.

The fact that you have extra buttons to press, but no extra choices to make with them means they're not adding anything of value.



It's certainly one idea around the problem. Embracing the idea completely and allowing you to combo your weaker attacks into any of your stronger ones would lead to some interesting decisions not only with your current set of combo skills, but also opens up combo routes including all of your most powerful attacks and cooldowns.

I do worry though that such a system could end up being a little bit too complicated. There would be a pretty significant burden of knowledge placed on the player to learn those optimal combo routes based on what's available at any one time. It would undoubtably end up with massive flow charts detailing how to play your job perfectly over 3 minute intervals that everyone would be expected to learn and execute.



I do try keep things both civil and productive. I'm aware that I may not always come across that way, but I make sure I'm addressing points people have brought up rather than resorting to personal attacks.

I'm always open and honest when it comes to my thoughts and ideas on the game. I know those aren't always going to line up with what others want, but I'm going to keep putting them out there anyway. I'm not going to take it personally if you disagree with me, and I hope no one else takes me disagreeing with them to heart either. At the end of the day, those disagreements wouldn't be happening if we weren't all so invested into the game to begin with.

I realise that has led me to having pages long disagreements with others here in the past, most notably with @Faroth. I don't have any problems with him as a person, but I do disagree with some of what he would like FF14 to be in the future. I'm fine with that, I like that he offers different ideas and opinions to my own. I hope he's okay with it too.

If that has upset anyone then I appologise. I'm not trying to foster an environment of negativity, only one of discussion. If I cross the line then please let me know.

Meh I'm just full on blunt here.

I'm not going to tiptoe around people. I'm honest even if it's a bit brutal sometimes. I mean feel free to be honest about me in return.

[Resiak]

Dynamic buttons that change to the next attack in the combo like in PvP would help. But the number of buttons would be completely fine to me if the combo system didn't feel so...mundane. If you could use different parts of the combo with any kind of effectiveness outside of the combo, that would be cool, and have a proc that activated a higher potency effect that would make the decision making more dynamic, more meaningful.

Pressing 1-2-3 every time, because that's just how the combo works and there's no reason to ever do it differently isn't any different than pressing 1-1-1. It's the exact same number of button presses and therefore has the exact same effect as having to press 3 different keys. Having a button dynamically change to the correct attack based on what the first button in the combo was, would also be nice so you'd have 2+ starter attacks, with a single button that would update to the appropriate attack in the combo chain so you'd only have ~3 buttons instead of 5+. Or maybe a stance like ability could be used to change which combo is used.

I don't mind a lot of buttons, if all of those button presses have meaning and take a decision, the combo system in FFXIV doesn't require decision making at all. That said, why is "I don't enjoy a lot of buttons" a valid reason? Why is it selfish? Some people literally can't play a game with that many buttons for a variety of reasons. I'm confident that the only reason I can is because I have peripherals that give me easy access to them. Not many people are willing, or should have to, spend that kind of money just in order to play the game effectively.

I kind of like the WoW teams take on making changes to the game. They always ask is this fun? Now I will say they have gone a bit too far on some of those decisions.

I've been leveling up dragoon lately, and the amount of abilities required for the full rotation is pretty ridiculous. And I don't necessarily see it as "fun". I think wow and ff14 are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. I would say 10-12 abilities commonly used in combat would be a good medium. Enough to keep you busy without developing carpal tunnel. I would also prefer, if they insist on this combo system for melee, that it be a true combo system with branching paths and you have to decide what combo you want to pull off for the situation your in. If i'm just hitting 1,2,3,4,9,5,6,7,8,9,4 (the base dragoon rotation) over and over again, well then yeah, you might as well just put them all in one button. Theres nothing interesting about that.