Blood in BfA - How do we compare?

[Faradin]

Bloodworms attacks can crit, at least. And if they can, they probably should also be affected by versatility.

My fault, I'm sure I could have written and formatted that post a lot better if I gave it time. For the section you quoted, I was referring to the healing of Bloodworms, not their damage (which *does* scale with everything, as you say). Bloodworm healing doesn't seem to scale with much of anything from better gear other than increases in stamina and haste (for more worm generation).

[Toore]

If the heaL is % based ten i recon some time ago (like begining of Legion or earlier even) was an anouncment that % based heals wont scale of crit and vers anymore?

[kran1um]

BFA how does it compare. upon my testing of all the tanks: the same. still god-mode M+, still cant kill them in pvp. same utility.

If you liked any tank in Legion, you'll like them in BfA - You'll have the sky is falling people who are used to pushing a button or bitching they lost a passive they really never thought about until it was posted on wowhead it was gone.

[msdos]

Yeah you hit the nail on the head, Faradin, about Voracious scaling and what not.

When I start doing 5 mans, I'm probably going to take Bloodworms. The beginning of xpacs are their own entity so to speak, you basically have a build just for this moment (Will of the Necrop is really good when you have bad gear and don't know the encounters well). Who knows, maybe Bloodworms will just stay better than Voracious given they offer a DPS component and everybody is wise to min/maxing DPS now. Tanks didn't always used to care/think about damage this much. It was either irrelevant or handed out like candy with Vengeance.

[Raiz]

"Better than complete garbage" doesn't say much, Legion launch blood was one of the worst specs in the entire game (generally the whole DK class was). It got better over time, but Legion launch dk was utter trash. Let's hope never again.

I feel like people were overexagerating. I didn't feel "weak" when I started Legion. And still feel nice at the end. I just don't understand what you are all saying when you all say it's weak. Clearly I don't play the same game.

Rune Tap even got nerfed from the live version according to the tooltips I'm seeing, did anyone even pick this before in Legion? Then we have Bloodworms and their history of being the literal definition of 'sucks', could they finally be any good now?

Yes. This talent was a godsend against Kil'Jaeden and Maiden of Vigilance.

[msdos]

I feel like people were overexagerating. I didn't feel "weak" when I started Legion. And still feel nice at the end. I just don't understand what you are all saying when you all say it's weak. Clearly I don't play the same game.

Yes. This talent was a godsend against Kil'Jaeden and Maiden of Vigilance.

If you really look at the state of tanks back then, Blood was actually just adequate, while the other tanks were overpowered or underpowered. Warriors and Druids got gutted mid-way through and BrM had to be propped up until Tomb.
The only time things really felt bad for me when the xpac came out, was Cenarius, Xavius and really big pulls in dungeons. So Cenarius was the only legit broken encounter for BDK.
Everything else was kinda just a matter of gear and not pulling the entire dungeon as soon as everyone loads up.

I remember everyone was crying about our mobility back then, but you could do Odyn perfectly fine when that fight came out, same with Helya. Speed was never actually a concern in Legion, which is really funny when you consider the amount of crying that when on about it.

[Frolk]

How big is the loss of leech aura for M+15 and up, is it worse or not as bad as i fear it might be?

[Nayami]

Yes. This talent was a godsend against Kil'Jaeden and Maiden of Vigilance.

Oops sorry I meant Mark of Blood ^^ Was referring to the Lvl 90 talents

[Marrilaife]

If you really look at the state of tanks back then, Blood was actually just adequate, while the other tanks were overpowered or underpowered. Warriors and Druids got gutted mid-way through and BrM had to be propped up until Tomb.
The only time things really felt bad for me when the xpac came out, was Cenarius, Xavius and really big pulls in dungeons. So Cenarius was the only legit broken encounter for BDK.

Before the hotfix to bone shield ICD / not depleting stacks from dots and re-adding IBF back to Blood, yes, Blood was underpowered.

[msdos]

Before the hotfix to bone shield ICD / not depleting stacks from dots and re-adding IBF back to Blood, yes, Blood was underpowered.

Yeah I meant we were just adequate AFTER they fixed Boneshield. Before that we were just broken, I wouldn't even call it under-powered.
I think they thought we would scale too well at the end of the expansion, so they didn't want us to have IBF at first, just my guess.

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Oops sorry I meant Mark of Blood ^^ Was referring to the Lvl 90 talents

I think they nerfed it because of PVP, the only real place it has more than a niche application, I could be wrong on that though.

[Marrilaife]

Yeah I meant we were just adequate AFTER they fixed Boneshield. Before that we were just broken, I wouldn't even call it under-powered.

Yeah originally I replied to someone saying "blood at start of BFA will be better than blood at the start of Legion". Well duh, it should be, because start of Legion there were glaring design issues like the bone shield not being able to be upkept in aoe packs in dungeons. I really don't think it should be a point of comparison.

It's hard to make good tank comparisons from early Legion, because Warrior was broken OP, and monk and dh were just not played at all. Both druid and paladin did better than dk though.

[Khain]

The BDK design probably benefits the most from gear scaling more than any other tank, Blood will inevitably move up the ranking 1-2 spots because its actual strength (self-sustain) scales exponentially with more health, armor and better secondary stats. with smaller health pools and less haste blood will start off weak but as those increase from tier to tier Blood self-sustain will overtake most tanks actual mitigation.

[Deleted]

Legion launch was the worst of the specs in the whole game - absolutely agree with you. How could he have come to this. This is a complete slag.

[msdos]

So apparently Bloodworms are doing as much damage as my heart strikes???? Ridiculous.

I gotta try a larger and longer sample size. But so far, Voracious feels better for consistent survival, Blood worms feel spiky as hell, but the damage is not a joke. Very interesting.

P.S. Death's Advance and Wraith Walk together feels soooo good. I never want to let go of Wraith Walk now (even though you can't glyph it anymore which royally pisses me off)

[Deleted]

I've seldom followed recent class change news but I did read that Blood is seemingly doing good as a tank in the Alpha, but how do we fare against others? Has much changed at all or are we still basically the DPS/Leech tank that prot warriors/pallies will overshadow in Heroic/Mythic? Is the playstyle still similar to Legion?

How we compare?

Mass Grip is the only reason you need to play Blood DK. That alone is better than anything, all the other tanks can provide with all combined.

[Deleted]

How we compare?

Mass grip is the only reason you need to play Blood DK. That alone is better than anything all the other tanks can provide with all combined.

Yup this.
As much as I love Mass Grip I would not be upset if Blizzard removed it because it is clearly imbalanced. Everytime I want to switch from my Blood DK I always find myself not being able to because no other tank has anything comparable to Mass Grip. Even without Mass Grip I think Blood would still be the best dungeon tank just for because of the toolkit of the normal Grip, ranged interrupts, self sustain..

[Deleted]

First time I'm actually looking at the new tree. Looks pretty awful. There's a clear "5 man build" and then there's a clear "raid build". The choices seem even more narrow now.

Runestrike looks like ass. I know a lot of testers are picking it and whatever and it has throwback appeal, but I'm not ditching Blood Drinker for that, especially not with how Bdrinker will scale with Voracious.
Hemo looks like it would be better for AOE than consumption will according to the wording "for each enemy hit", wtf? I would literally never pick Consumption, even Rapid Decomp is better paired with Voracious.
Foul Bulwark in the same row as Tombstone kills synergy (retard move). Nothing in that row competes with Ossuary whatsoever (GJ Blizz, exact same situation as last time), at least until the first raid tier and you can actually use Tombstone. Tombstone might be useful later on when you actually have health and charges to spend.
Row 60 is the most interesting row, imo, especially with that buffed AMS talent, that baby is going to be so sweet. But again, you really have zero choice here: it's WotN when the game launches and you do your first dungeons, then it's AMB the moment you get gear. Runetap will probably remain niche, but I could be wrong on that because I don't know what any of the encounters look like, mandatory or niche depending on encounter designs? Runetap is also extremely good for PVP, so that is something else to consider for that row.
Tightening Grasp. Enough said. (WW for PVP)
One word: Voracious. It's bread and butter. They should just remove the other two talents before launch. No one will pick them. In fact, the last 3 rows are a straight up noob trap.
Row 100 can be summed up with "rest in peace Bonestorm". Outside of raid I will always have Purgatory picked and inside of a raid I will always have Red Thirst picked, with Purgatory for progression. I also plan on picking Rapid Decomp because it scales well with Voracious (once again.), Bonestorm is even less of a necessity after that. But again, hard to tell how useful Bonestorm will be at first without knowing the PVE content!!

Conclusion: Looks like I'll never need to respec. That's how narrow the tree is. Simply switch out Rapid Decomp (if you even pick it, most people probably won't even need to switch this, less choice) for one of the other 2 before Mythic+ and that's it, MAYBE Bonestorm if it's Lower Kara tier AND MAYBE Runetap if it's like KJ 2.0, uber whammy hit combo Cenarius man.
That's great design, Blizzard, bravo!!!!!! (I do not see this tree going live in it's current state.)

Edit: Soulgorge went live, nevermind. This tree will probably go live.

Play before you comment.

So stupid. What is the pen and paper game?

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Yup this.
As much as I love Mass Grip I would not be upset if Blizzard removed it because it is clearly imbalanced. Everytime I want to switch from my Blood DK I always find myself not being able to because no other tank has anything comparable to Mass Grip. Even without Mass Grip I think Blood would still be the best dungeon tank just for because of the toolkit of the normal Grip, ranged interrupts, self sustain..

Now, this is a true gamer.

If I would argue against you(as some idiot you find here), the ONLY possible argument would be:

"But, we don't have any mobility". Yes, true.

But we have Mass Grip. And 90% AoE slow. And single grip. And ranged Interupt. And on demand movement CD. And single target slow. And AMS to bypass funny mechanics(not to mention selfheal/sustainability).

Even if you remove Mass Grip, you have all the above.

I don't have to sell the Blood DK to anyone. It should be easy enough to see how potent they are.

[Gorsameth]

Play before you comment.

So stupid. What is the pen and paper game?

instead of just going "Your Wrong!!" it would be helpful if you offered counter arguments to his points.

[Deleted]

instead of just going "Your Wrong!!" it would be helpful if you offered counter arguments to his points.

I/we can't.

He did not play the spec, he did not try it. BFA is not out, so you don't know how the packs/bosses work on max level. I don't either.

So, let's just put the pen and paper away.

[Deleted]

But we have Mass Grip. And 90% AoE slow. And single grip. And ranged Interupt. And on demand movement CD. And single target slow. And AMS to bypass funny mechanics(not to mention selfheal/sustainability).

Even if you remove Mass Grip, you have all the above.

I don't have to sell the Blood DK to anyone. It should be easy enough to see how potent they are.

You forgot a great AOE slow with death and decay.

I want to play Warrior everytime because I like Arms better than Unholy and Fury better than Frost.

But Protection Warrior is so tedious in Dungeons. It takes a lot more work to just round up mobs and hold aggro on all of them. Group loses dps because you can't just grip stray mobs into the pack. And in terms of Heroic Leap is not better than Wraithwalk either.

I don't think DK mobility is an issue. In combat I never felt immobile in Legion in any mythic plus.

Out of combat DK is not less mobile than Warrior or Paladin either.

Then you have grip also acting as an interrupt for casts that are usually not interruptable for example the jailor demon in Vault of Wardens..