Russian pro-gun activist linked to NRA charged with spying in US for Moscow

[Elegiac]

but the NRA is not labeled a terrorist group.

Yet.

/10 char

[Paranoid Android]

That's because she never was lobbyist.

You're not lobbyist if you just want relations between countries to improve, and for Russia to copy some aspects of American culture, like gun rights.

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I see way too much reaching and jumping to conclusions for that thread to have any value sadly

You are right, she is not a lobbyist. She is very likely a foreign operative who looked to influence organizations like the NRA.

I'm betting the NRA took the bait.

[Edge-]

Trying to link the NRA to a agent from Russian, as if there is some wrong doings going on, is how it appeared to me.

The DOJ charges that are now formal indictments? Did you bother to read any of the background evidence? Did you even click on the Rolling Stone link to get a better look at the history between the NRA and the Russian government/agents?

I know it is hard for some to accept, but the NRA is not labeled a terrorist group.

What the fuck kind of strawman is this, dude? Where did I label them a terrorist group?

This is nothing more than she is a Russian agent and was arrested for violations of US law. Nothing more. Unless there are some NRA members also breaking the law, in which case, they should be arrested also.

Again, read the affidavit the DOJ released. Read the Rolling Stone article. And please stop reading and responding to things I didn't type.

[Bullettime]

Trying to link the NRA to a agent from Russian, as if there is some wrong doings going on, is how it appeared to me. I know it is hard for some to accept, but the NRA is not labeled a terrorist group. This is nothing more than she is a Russian agent and was arrested for violations of US law. Nothing more. Unless there are some NRA members also breaking the law, in which case, they should be arrested also.

The NRA has been accused of being a Russian money laundering operation into conservative politics since their joint summit a few years ago and since Alexander Torshin started cultivating a relationship with the higher ups. These accusations have been getting more merit based on investigation findings and, now, indictments involving Butina.

That's not saying the NRA is guilty yet, but the arrest of Butina could very well lead to RICO of the NRA to get to the bottom of it.

[Dontrike]

....the NRA is not labeled a terrorist group.

Yeah guys, Ghostpanther is right, terrorist organizations have their spokesperson(s) or leaders call for violence against certain people or groups and that's NEVER happened before from anyone in the NRA. Nope. Not once.

[Drutt]

The implications of the info presented in the Butina affidavit are staggering and everyone should be horrified by them.

The FBI has concluded that one of the two major parties in the US has been at least partially compromised by a foreign power and, more importantly, believes it can prove that in court.

This is just staggering in its potential scope, and I sincerely hope they're wrong. The alternative is just horrendous.

[Ghostpanther]

The DOJ charges that are now formal indictments? Did you bother to read any of the background evidence? Did you even click on the Rolling Stone link to get a better look at the history between the NRA and the Russian government/agents?



What the fuck kind of strawman is this, dude? Where did I label them a terrorist group?



Again, read the affidavit the DOJ released. Read the Rolling Stone article. And please stop reading and responding to things I didn't type.

You are going to have to do better with a link than one from rollingstone. :P I never said you labeled them a terrorist group. But some liberals do. Do not take it personal.

Then stop making statements which seem to suggest a connection other than a casual one between the NRA and this Russian agent.

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The NRA has been accused of being a Russian money laundering operation into conservative politics since their joint summit a few years ago and since Alexander Torshin started cultivating a relationship with the higher ups. These accusations have been getting more merit based on investigation findings and, now, indictments involving Butina.

That's not saying the NRA is guilty yet, but the arrest of Butina could very well lead to RICO of the NRA to get to the bottom of it.

I am glad you added that part. Until they are guilty of breaking the law. My stance is, the connection is meaningless.

[Underverse]

Republicans, and conservatives in general, are rapidly becoming associated with the party of serving extra-national interests above those of our own people. Which is quite ironic.

Who would have thought that freedom-hating liberals would be more patriotic than conservatives of the late 2010s?

[Edge-]

You are going to have to do better with a link than one from rollingstone. :P I never said you labeled them a terrorist group. But some liberals do. Do not take it personal.

Again, read the Rolling Stone article. It's pretty detailed and worth a read if you care about facts and history.

And I'm not sure why you're responding to "the general liberal" in response to my posts. It has nothing to do with what I wrote in the slightest.

Then stop making statements which seem to suggest a connection other than a casual one between the NRA and this Russian agent.

I won't, because I've actually read into the history of the NRA and their efforts to expand into Russia and the Russian governments efforts to form closer ties to the NRA. Again, I recommend you read the Rolling Stone article and I'm sure you will be able to easily find a few more. There are plenty of questionable links, especially in light of the indictments against Butina, that are absolutely worth investigating.

[Togashii]

Snip

Poor Ghosty... a WP with no race war or brown/black people to shoot.

Additionally, delenda est @Thwart

[bladeXcrasher]

Even fox is reporting on this, can we finally label the NRA as a domestic terrorist group?

[Poopymonster]

Their erroneous beliefs are would be irrelevant.

Depending on who wins, that will determine who is a Freedom Fighter Jeebus Gun Loving 'Murrican and a traitor.

[Flarelaine]

Was about to post that. Remember, Russia totally didn't try to interfere with or influence American elections. Putin said so!

Also, will be real interesting seeing if her NRA connections turn up anything.

We already knew Russia funneled money into GOP campaigns through the NRA. These are just the specifics.

[Zaydin]

I guess NRA stands for National Russian Accomplices now.

[Noradin]

I guess NRA stands for National Russian Accomplices now.

"Naughty Russian Accomplices"

[Priestiality]

The denial from Trumpers in this thread is delicious. It says, in plain English, that Paul Erickson (US Person 1) personally set up a direct, secret line of communication (back channel) between top leadership in the GOP (Political Party 1) and the Kremlin through the NRA (Gun Rights Organization).

How do we know it's the GOP and the NRA? It says in the boring administrative background stuff in the beginning of the affidavit that GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION is "the largest Second Amendment lobbying group in the United States" and that POLITICAL PARTY 1 is "the primary recipient of donations and lobbying efforts from GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION".

[Felya]

Then stop making statements which seem to suggest a connection other than a casual one between the NRA and this Russian agent.

Stop making statements that NRA has anything to do with the second amendment, beyond trying to sell as much of their product as possible. The connection is not just casual... they were laundering money for Russia. The second amendment doesn’t apply to Russia...

[Bullettime]

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...f-Pretrial.pdf

Memorandum is up from today's hearing. Lot of interesting stuff there.

1. Used American education as a cover for her activities. PERSON 1 was basically doing her schoolwork so she could do her spy thing.
2. PERSON 1 was seemingly helping her flee before getting caught.
3. Was living with PERSON 1 and offering sex to get into unnamed special interest groups.
4. PERSON 1 is basically Paul Erickson with no other signs pointing to anyone else. Paul Erickson was a member of the Trump transition team, GOP operative, and pro Russia-NRA lobbyist.
5. The back channel was apparently actually established and not just an accusation.
6. She was in regular contact with the FSB during her time

There's more goodies and exact quotes but that's just a few bullet points

[Felya]

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...f-Pretrial.pdf

Memorandum is up from today's hearing. Lot of interesting stuff there.

1. Used American education as a cover for her activities. PERSON 1 was basically doing her schoolwork so she could do her spy thing.
2. PERSON 1 was seemingly helping her flee before getting caught.
3. Was living with PERSON 1 and offering sex to get into unnamed special interest groups.
4. PERSON 1 is basically Paul Erickson with no other signs pointing to anyone else. Paul Erickson was a member of the Trump transition team, GOP operative, and pro Russia-NRA lobbyist.
5. The back channel was apparently actually established and not just an accusation.
6. She was in regular contact with the FSB during her time

There's more goodies and exact quotes but that's just a few bullet points

That second page... there is someone in government that she compromised and could have aided her escape? Sorry... what?

[Bullettime]

That second page... there is someone in government that she compromised and could have aided her escape? Sorry... what?

Speculation of an exact name being Rohrabacher as he's been going on quite a few unhinged rants and claiming Butina's detention is bullshit and a conspiracy.

But in reality, it could be any number of RNC affiliates or congressmen that may have been involved with the back channel and have a concern about her seeing a court room.