Does Blizzard still think personal loot should be forced in BFA for EVERYBODY?

[Deleted]

The master loot system allowed these problems to happen. It put your gaming experience in the hands of toxic players and potentially could ruin an entire week of fun for you. You could've gone through 10+ guilds until you found one that did it correctly. You just got lucky. How would that be enjoyable at all?

Not sure if trolling and/or sarcastic, tbh.

[lappee]

The master loot system allowed these problems to happen. It put your gaming experience in the hands of toxic players and potentially could ruin an entire week of fun for you. You could've gone through 10+ guilds until you found one that did it correctly. You just got lucky. How would that be enjoyable at all?

You put yourself in that position by not asking questions, having no critical thinking and just going with the flow.

Blizzard can protect people from stupidity but it always comes at the cost of choice and there will always be people who still can't do it as good as others - not even if the game became "press one button every hour".

[stupid11]

Removing ML is horrific. Nothing to do with the world top 50 7 split farm group situation or whatever either.

I've been a general raider in plenty of different guilds, particularly in the 400-2000 range. This change will have a massive negative effect on that kind of guild. The problem is that unless you're a one in a thousand lucky guild that's kept their core intact since vanilla, you will *always* have a steady stream of trials and turnover.

Now not only will you have that turnover, but you'll have those people taking gear from your actual raiders and then disappearing after 2 weeks. Leading to slower progression for the guild and lower morale. No one likes to see gear disappear from the group that they're contributing their time to, it makes everyone more likely to lose faith and quit.

Blizz lost a sale from me over this.

[RoKPaNda]

Removing ML is horrific. Nothing to do with the world top 50 7 split farm group situation or whatever either.

I've been a general raider in plenty of different guilds, particularly in the 400-2000 range. This change will have a massive negative effect on that kind of guild. The problem is that unless you're a one in a thousand lucky guild that's kept their core intact since vanilla, you will *always* have a steady stream of trials and turnover.

Now not only will you have that turnover, but you'll have those people taking gear from your actual raiders and then disappearing after 2 weeks. Leading to slower progression for the guild and lower morale. No one likes to see gear disappear from the group that they're contributing their time to, it makes everyone more likely to lose faith and quit.

Blizz lost a sale from me over this.

That's not even rational behavior. You're going to not buy BfA because hypothetically you could take a trial along for progression (lol) and they could get a piece of loot and disappear with it, and you believe that your progression hinges on that one piece of gear? Unlikely.

[Keren]

you'll have those people taking gear from your actual raiders and then disappearing after 2 weeks. [..] No one likes to see gear disappear from the group that they're contributing their time to, it makes everyone more likely to lose faith and quit.

Where the hell do you loose gear when personal in enabled? You are not affected the slightest.

[lappee]

That's not even rational behavior. You're going to not buy BfA because hypothetically you could take a trial along for progression (lol) and they could get a piece of loot and disappear with it, and you believe that your progression hinges on that one piece of gear? Unlikely.

I bought it a long time ago, there was never a question about it. Doesn't change the fact that removing ML option from guilds is a bad change for majority that are affected.

One piece of loot is unlikely to cause massive hinge, depending on the loot obviously. There just literally isn't a reason to take trials in if you're not sure you're going to need them within that reset (and if thats the case then the guild is already in serious trouble).

[Trend]

Q. Does Blizzard still think personal loot should be forced in BFA for EVERYBODY?

A. Yes

THE END

[stupid11]

That's not even rational behavior. You're going to not buy BfA because hypothetically you could take a trial along for progression (lol) and they could get a piece of loot and disappear with it, and you believe that your progression hinges on that one piece of gear? Unlikely.

Yes because I was only talking about 1 piece of gear. There's no hypothetical about it, if you've ever raided in a "normal" guild that hasn't had the same roster for 10 years, trials are reality. Recruitment is constant, not sporadic.

Where the hell do you loose gear when personal in enabled? You are not affected the slightest.

You do understand that only a certain amount of gear drops when a boss dies, right? Regardless of loot system, it's limited.

Progression as a guild hinges on keeping as much of that gear as possible within the guild and on characters that show up long-term.

[Raldazzar]

ITs is the way its going to be. I am not sure why you think they have changed their stance on this. It is 100% going live. You sound like all the butt hurt Guild officers (loot council) that can no longer divvy up loot to themselves first.

agreed.

find me a top guild where the loot council weren't the first guys decked out. with whatever excuses they could find...

[Drusin]

but you do deserve gear that is dropping since hour 0 you are in raid with them .

No they don't. They have contributed nothing and if they weren't there the content would still get cleared, their presence is just for evaluation.

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find me a top guild

Define top

[RoKPaNda]

Yes because I was only talking about 1 piece of gear. There's no hypothetical about it, if you've ever raided in a "normal" guild that hasn't had the same roster for 10 years, trials are reality. Recruitment is constant, not sporadic.



You do understand that only a certain amount of gear drops when a boss dies, right? Regardless of loot system, it's limited.

Progression as a guild hinges on keeping as much of that gear as possible within the guild and on characters that show up long-term.

I raid Mythic, and I've never taken recruits or trials to bosses during progression. That's something you do when your guild is on the verge of failure. I've taken recruits / trials AFTER progression to gear them up for next tier, but I've never taken them during progression. That just shows poor recruiting in a healthy guild or that a guild is unhealthy.

If you NEED them there to do progression, then they should be getting something out of it. But then I guess if a guild doesn't plan ahead on recruitment or doesn't have enough of a roster for progression for whatever reason then they're probably not capable of thinking that far ahead anyway. It's literally one or two pieces of gear or you running a same server pug by taking multiple recruits along to progression? What are you even doing that there are multiple recruits or trials in your progression raid?

This change is only bad for control freaks. Everyone else will adjust.

[Yunaqt]

But but i'm in a sweet spot in my guild and get priority on loot over a lot of other raiders and I don't want that to change.

Plus if we lose a few bits of gear to someone leaving we won't be able to meet enrage in heroic.

[Tharkkun]

Can you explain how you think you were forced to raid in a guild that uses master loot?

How exactly do you determine before joining a raiding guild with master loot and raiding for a while that they don't run master loot in a toxic and unfair way?

[asil]

How exactly do you determine before joining a raiding guild with master loot and raiding for a while that they don't run master loot in a toxic and unfair way?

How do you know it's handled in a toxic and unfair way either way? Explain your reasoning. Does toxic and unfair in your world mean "I didn't get an item I wanted."

[Tharkkun]

You put yourself in that position by not asking questions, having no critical thinking and just going with the flow.

Blizzard can protect people from stupidity but it always comes at the cost of choice and there will always be people who still can't do it as good as others - not even if the game became "press one button every hour".

Then you find out the master loot system or even council loot isn't as fair as presented to you. Rinse, repeat, new guild. You'll never be 100% certain. So now that problem is gone.

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How do you know it's handled in a toxic and unfair way either way? Explain your reasoning. Does toxic and unfair in your world mean "I didn't get an item I wanted."

I've never once been in a position where I didn't get an item I wanted for many years since I was an officer in my guild since 2007. But I also lead by example and passed on upgrades for others. In a lot of cases I was the last to receive an item or a trinket on purpose.

But prior to that I was in a DKP and EPGP system and we had cases where people would spend their points just to have items "in case" it was an upgrade just so new people didn't get the items.

We had a warlock spend DKP on a "shadow wand" in Blackwing Lair for the Dragonmaw trash that had immunities to spell type. A hunter that scored the Drake Fang Talisman because it had +hit so he could pull trash better.

Then you get the people that score 1 piece or 3 piece bonus on tier when someone could get a 2 piece or 4 piece bonus and won't pass for someone who passed gear to you in the past.

You also have the horror of council loot who funnel gear to favorites instead of spreading out and making the overall raid better.

Denying trials of loot and even disenchanting it because they aren't eligible. I saw that happen.

Being forced to take Tier 1 shoulders from Molten Core after acquiring my Tier 2 ones already so my DKP will be lower when Nefarian is killed for the Tier BP. (That guild imploded)

None of those scenarios can really happen now with personal loot. There's hundreds of guilds out there and loot drives people to greed and terrible treatment of individuals.

[asil]

Then you find out the master loot system or even council loot isn't as fair as presented to you. Rinse, repeat, new guild. You'll never be 100% certain. So now that problem is gone.

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I've never once been in a position where I didn't get an item I wanted for many years since I was an officer in my guild since 2007. But I also lead by example and passed on upgrades for others. In a lot of cases I was the last to receive an item or a trinket on purpose.

But prior to that I was in a DKP and EPGP system and we had cases where people would spend their points just to have items "in case" it was an upgrade just so new people didn't get the items.

We had a warlock spend DKP on a "shadow wand" in Blackwing Lair for the Dragonmaw trash that had immunities to spell type. A hunter that scored the Drake Fang Talisman because it had +hit so he could pull trash better.

Then you get the people that score 1 piece or 3 piece bonus on tier when someone could get a 2 piece or 4 piece bonus and won't pass for someone who passed gear to you in the past.

You also have the horror of council loot who funnel gear to favorites instead of spreading out and making the overall raid better.

Denying trials of loot and even disenchanting it because they aren't eligible. I saw that happen.

Being forced to take Tier 1 shoulders from Molten Core after acquiring my Tier 2 ones already so my DKP will be lower when Nefarian is killed for the Tier BP. (That guild imploded)

None of those scenarios can really happen now with personal loot. There's hundreds of guilds out there and loot drives people to greed and terrible treatment of individuals.

So to be clear here, you've failed to present a single coherent reason for as to how master looter is "toxic" and failed to present any reasons for it being toxic outside of shit from Vanilla wow.

Amazing, almost as if you have no point and you know you have no point.

In fact, it seems even your examples from vanilla werne't even master loot but DKP. Did you even think before you typed this?

I'm also gonna need some proof of a guild literally disenchanting loot rather than letting trials have it. I've heard of 1 guild ever doing that, so the idea it's an actual thing is hilariously absurd.

[Deleted]

Tbh the only people who hate loot council is because they play like garbage and expect to be rewarded for it.

Fuck personal loot.

[Tharkkun]

So to be clear here, you've failed to present a single coherent reason for as to how master looter is "toxic" and failed to present any reasons for it being toxic outside of shit from Vanilla wow.

Amazing, almost as if you have no point and you know you have no point.

In fact, it seems even your examples from vanilla werne't even master loot but DKP. Did you even think before you typed this?

I'm also gonna need some proof of a guild literally disenchanting loot rather than letting trials have it. I've heard of 1 guild ever doing that, so the idea it's an actual thing is hilariously absurd.

Without master loot, DKP, EPGP, Loot Council and any other form of loot distribution system would be nonexistent. Let that sink in for a couple minutes...

I'm not going to dig through 14 years of history through forums/websites that no longer exist to offer proof. What happened happened only because of master loot. I'm not saying it's the root of all evil in loot but it played a big part of loot problems for over a decade.

[lappee]

Then you find out the master loot system or even council loot isn't as fair as presented to you. Rinse, repeat, new guild. You'll never be 100% certain. So now that problem is gone.

Except ML and loot council were fair if you were in a fair guild which large majority are, just because you didn't feel like its fair (aka "I did good, give me loot" when you died to first mechanic) doesn't mean it wasn't fair.
Abusive players will still find ways to abuse even with forced PL, as shown multiple times in this thread.

[Deleted]

"Raiding" in a supposedly good guild under PL I saw a guy repeatedly pretend to disenchant the loot he got (by disenchanting something else). He claimed it was to troll others. Took a while to prove he was doing it to toss the items to his buddies instead. Then he became the GM. Then I left (he was giving a platform to his very toxic and abusive buddies because they thought it was fun). Then the guild died after years of activity.

Oh - loot distribution systems are toxic. Not people. Legit.

Also - raider.io is toxic. Wowprogress too. Obviously gearscore. People never are. Tools though ... Yep. Legit.

Congratulations on finding the real culprits and crying that others (Blizz) do something about them, while at the same time staying in shi@ty guilds and avoiding to call out and face toxic people. Melting snowflakes.

Thank you for showing me where I need to be extra careful to grow my kids into decent people. For real.