would you like no beta/alpha before release?

[Tokas]

Just a wild question.
Since shit's broken after Alpha / Beta anyway, would you prefer if there was no beta and or alpha open for testing?
Or well at least no beta open for public testing, and a bit more alpha behind hidden doors.
So we, the mortal people, would know expansions features etc., but quests, systems, zones, lore - a surprise at launch day?
I personally see benefits to both ways:
with open beta, with alpha - I'm assuming more bugs are caught and fixed, but we're so spoiled... I have this feeling we know everything by now... no surprises left for launch.
without beta / alpha - more bugs, but element of surprise everywhere.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Do you want a more broken game? Because that's how you get a more broken game.
And it's very easy to not get spoiled, you're choosing to know. The surprise is there for most people.

[Unlimited Power]

I got beta access in one of the initial waves and I never even installed the client. I don't see what the issue is, if you don't want to be spoiled don't play the beta

[beanman12345]

Do you want a more broken game? Because that's how you get a more broken game.
And it's very easy to not get spoiled, you're choosing to know. The surprise is there for most people.

Would either be broken, or expansions would take another two or three years.

[cparle87]

I got beta access in one of the initial waves and I never even installed the client. I don't see what the issue is, if you don't want to be spoiled don't play the beta

This. I've gotten invites to every beta since MoP. MoP was the only one I ever did cause I don't want to have the game world done and played before it even comes out.

[Ophenia]

Back in the good ol' days, some companies were completely able to deliver unbroken games without Alpha/Beta/PTR processes.

Plus, this Alpha/Beta/PTR processes were deviated from their initial goal : they now aim to create public advertisement. Alphas are barely about fixing bugs (and obvious ones, the ones they don't need us to detect), Betas are just balance, PTR is "streamer content", go advertise for me please
And last, games are way more entertaining when you discover stuff. Will you be entertained when you'll see Teldrassil burning ? you know it will happen since one year. The same way I couldn't care less about Sargeras stabbing Azeroth as the "wound in Silithus" was known 6 months earlier.

So yeah, totally in favor of No Beta/PTR, even though it brings back the Patch Day No Play gimmick.

[Segus1992]

Back in the good ol' days, some companies were completely able to deliver unbroken games without Alpha/Beta/PTR processes.

Plus, this Alpha/Beta/PTR processes were deviated from their initial goal : they now aim to create public advertisement. Alphas are barely about fixing bugs (and obvious ones, the ones they don't need us to detect), Betas are just balance, PTR is "streamer content", go advertise for me please
And last, games are way more entertaining when you discover stuff. Will you be entertained when you'll see Teldrassil burning ? you know it will happen since one year. The same way I couldn't care less about Sargeras stabbing Azeroth as the "wound in Silithus" was known 6 months earlier.

So yeah, totally in favor of No Beta/PTR, even though it brings back the Patch Day No Play gimmick.

Are you also in favor of waiting an extra year for it to be unbroken? The testing phase does help, implying otherwise is just stupid - just because the bug you focused on wasn't fixed doesn't mean it isn't for bug fixing.

That said, I wish MMOC would announce spoilery shit less. I have had alpha/beta every expansion, but I always try to avoid doing too much in order to avoid spoilers, and then MMOC posts major events on the front page for views.

[Icoblablubb]

ya no thanks .. we already got enough broken shit even with alpha/beta without that we basically get like x5 broken shit .. and ofc all that shit blizz would implement like without alpha/beta we would have 3 times the abilitys on GCD classes would still have initial alpha/beta talents which got dumbed because players raged because they straight up sucked

[Ophenia]

Are you also in favor of waiting an extra year for it to be unbroken? The testing phase does help, implying otherwise is just stupid - just because the bug you focused on wasn't fixed doesn't mean it isn't for bug fixing.

As I said, there are a lot of companies who did just well in designing their stuff without Betas. Beta is the easy/cheap way (because you actually don't need to pay people to test, they're even dumb enough to pay themselves to test your stuff), but if you're competent as a company (an AAA multi-billion dollar company like Blizzard should be), you should be able to deliver a working iteration just fine, with a few hotfixes of course.

It's obvious that the Betas nowadays serve more as an advertising purpose than anything else, really.

I've had Beta invitations too, and I've only used them when I was seriously mythic raiding, trying to keep the overall lore or other twists for the day I'll really experience it. But it's completely impossible in WoW now, as you said because of the spoilery everywhere, you can't not be aware of the major lines.
I have not been amazed in anything in WoW for a long time. Sargeras' stabbing could've been a "wtf" moment but it wasn't, because we all knew it was going to happen, the only interrogation was "when".

[Segus1992]

As I said, there are a lot of companies who did just well in designing their stuff without Betas. Beta is the easy/cheap way (because you actually don't need to pay people to test, they're even dumb enough to pay themselves to test your stuff), but if you're competent as a company (an AAA multi-billion dollar company like Blizzard should be), you should be able to deliver a working iteration just fine, with a few hotfixes of course.

It's obvious that the Betas nowadays serve more as an advertising purpose than anything else, really.

I've had Beta invitations too, and I've only used them when I was seriously mythic raiding, trying to keep the overall lore or other twists for the day I'll really experience it. But it's completely impossible in WoW now, as you said because of the spoilery everywhere, you can't not be aware of the major lines.
I have not been amazed in anything in WoW for a long time. Sargeras' stabbing could've been a "wtf" moment but it wasn't, because we all knew it was going to happen, the only interrogation was "when".

My point is: do you know for sure that those games wouldn't have been finished quicker if they had thousands of players testing them for free?

I feel like public beta isn't bad, but fansites like these could be a little more considerate to people who don't wish to know everything the second it's datamined/seen on alpha. That's really the main reason major events have a numb feel to them.

[dope_danny]

For everything to be a surprise at launch? yeah. But then launch just becomes an open beta and its X.1 where the final build makes retail. its not just class balancing remember. There was a particular cave in drustvar i found where the floor had a huge gap in that you would just fall out of world in. They need players in a significant number to find and report those so they get stitched up.

I mean shit they had to add a /stuck button to GW2 at launch because they didn't do this and there were places you could get when skyrim'ing up a steep hill where you would get stuck in a craggy pile of rocks and you would never be able to get out as you werent touching the ground to perform any actions.

[--Code--]

I think the game gets way too much exposure during beta as streamers use it as their primary source of content. It's not good for the game IMO.

[Lane]

Are you also in favor of waiting an extra year for it to be unbroken? The testing phase does help, implying otherwise is just stupid - just because the bug you focused on wasn't fixed doesn't mean it isn't for bug fixing.

Having been in multiple WoW betas, the sheer amount of issues repeatedly reported/posted about, sometimes since alpha, that go through to live is truly mind boggling. It's left me with the impression that by the time an expansion gets to beta, it's basically done in Blizzard's eyes. I think at that point they're only interested in testing instanced group content with some minor class balancing, anything else gets pushed back to X.1 or later.

[Segus1992]

Having been in multiple WoW betas, the sheer amount of issues repeatedly reported/posted about, sometimes since alpha, that go through to live is truly mind boggling. It's left me with the impression that by the time an expansion gets to beta, it's basically done in Blizzard's eyes. I think at that point they're only interested in testing instanced group content with some minor class balancing, anything else gets pushed back to X.1 or later.

They're mainly testing & looking for game breaking bugs. It'd be ridiculous to assume they stop work on the expansion when it goes to beta, but it's not ridiculous to assume the work force is reduced (and redistributed to later patches). Still, if we look at other MMOs and their releases (either at time span or quality upon release) WoW isn't exactly doing badly.

[owbu]

The reason shit is still broke is that players find bugs faster than programmers can fix them and that some things need to be tested in a live enviroment before you can find out why the break.

But creating that list of bugs is still essential to reduce the time it takes for shit to get unbroke, because it makes it possible to have an overview over whats broken and why it is broken and what really needs to be fixed right now because it's breaking the game and what can be cataloged and be fixed once the game is less on fire.

So no, I don't want there to be no beta. I prefer the occasional spoiler from clicking on the wrong topic. And I feel like it's pretty easy to keep yourself in the relative dark by just not reading beta news. (I know basicly nothing about the actualy story of BfA, even though I visit MMO-Champ quite a lot)

[Berverk]

There shouldn't be any public testing. Most people use it to just see new content without ever reporting bugs. Streamers just spoil it for most. Like someone before me said blizz uses it for advertisement instead for its intended purpose but the players pay for it by loosing the sense of excitement when patch is actually released.

[sam86]

I still remember the days when game developers had to actually pay for others to test their products, not other way around, but gamers accept literal sh8t and defend it these days, as penny-arcade sadly joked years ago
It isn't about 'element of surprise', if u want ppl to test ur product at least make testing for free, not i work for u, and i pay for u, what end happening - as joked by dark legacy comics - is ppl enter to check new stuff, and not actually testing bugs

I'm pretty sure any old gamer remember the early days when game developers were actually paying for testers

- - - Updated - - -

Still, if we look at other MMOs and their releases (either at time span or quality upon release) WoW isn't exactly doing badly.

this is like saying iraq is not a bad country because egypt is worse (fun fact, iraq donated to us because how fucked egypt is)
I STILL remember during TBC when patch was out (2.3 or 2.4 can't remember exactly which patch), and back then over 8 million playing wow, yet i got a gm answer in 5 min, at patch day, and he apologized for the 'delay', how much is average wait time for GMs these days ?

[Tokas]

I see some angry posters here, I don't get it - it's an idea / option / fantasy / you name it. I am not declaring that starting tomorrow no game will ever have Beta anymore. #consultyourdoctor

[Sencha]

No beta.

But they need to test their f** game before releasing it!

[Deleted]

Do you want a more broken game? Because that's how you get a more broken game.
And it's very easy to not get spoiled, you're choosing to know. The surprise is there for most people.

Quite funny that company is so much reliable of their ''testers''. Company should do testing internally. But hey it's pretty good strategy, why use money resources if people will do it for free?