Should people who suck influence game design?

[Dormie]

Really agree with this. As a hardcore player coming back to WoW multiple times throughout the years, the main question I ask myself every time is: can I afford to get really invested in this game now, or should I forcefully limit myself to the LFR-level content?

There are so many basics one needs to learn: navigating the world (current expansion), gear and other loot/token systems, loads of boss mechanics, one's own class, gameplay basics outside your class (stuff like: innervate is no longer giving mana regen, and can only be casted on healers). And only then one can start learning in-depth knowledge that truly counts as "skills". It's a massive time sink, and not every mechanically excellent player will want to get so invested.

It really isn't complicated, it just seems like it when you're coming in fresh. The only problem players that wnat to do higher than LFR content but not with a guild face is the ineptitude of most PuGs/PuG-leaders.

[Sansnom]

All things supported by the developers of the game, and something they factor into designing encounters. High level content is all developed around the assumption that you have basic addons, and is the reason they started baking some addons into the standard UI.

It is a shame that the game has come to do in order for the developers to designed challenging encounters. Because it partly becomes following and executing a pre-determine strategy.

A checklist if you like.

Which types of encounters do people prefer?

A blind encounter with no add-ons with minimal aids, such as key animation to watch for rather a big letters.

Or

Encounters that requires add-ons, notifications but require absolute almost perfect execution of a pre-determine instruction list?

I do find raiding to a bit odd since it is like playing after reading a cheat book. it is the only game I know that almost actively encourage that.

[xpose]

"Game is so easy"

Uses 100 addons to tell him every piece of information and what to do

[Snuffleupagus]

It is a shame that the game has come to do in order for the developers to designed challenging encounters. Because it partly becomes following and executing a pre-determine strategy.

A checklist if you like.

Which types of encounters do people prefer?

A blind encounter with no add-ons with minimal aids, such as key animation to watch for rather a big letters.

Or

Encounters that requires add-ons, notifications but require absolute almost perfect execution of a pre-determine instruction list?

I do find raiding to a bit odd since it is like playing after reading a cheat book. it is the only game I know that almost actively encourage that.

I tried the blind encounter approach at the start of Cata. Did 10 man raiding on heroic for the first tier of raids pre-nerf with no addons except Recount and Omen. Did them as soon as they opened, so no guides (didn't bother with beta test videos).

It was absolutely glorious. I thought the raiding scene was shaping up to be even better than Wrath. Unforgiving mechanics that were well telegraphed and needed almost perfect execution, but still doable with no addons. Even Heroic 5 mans were actually hard again, and the mechanics absolutely unforgiving (lot of love for original Grim Batol).

Then the casuals complained, and everything got nerfed. I unsubbed a week after that and didn't play again until WoD.

[Sierra85]

people who aren't good can still have an opinion, but i think they shouldn't be listened to.

[ID811717]

A blind encounter with no add-ons with minimal aids, such as key animation to watch for rather a big letters.

Or

Encounters that requires add-ons, notifications but require absolute almost perfect execution of a pre-determine instruction list?

Addons are not allowed in WoW arena competitions. It only leads to players doing the "addon job" in their head: watching a basic in-game timer and memorizing CDs.
Wouldn't it look the same in PvE? As long as certain boss abilities are on a timer, all players (or just raid leaders) will be forced to follow these timers by whatever means necessary (in head, 3 stop-watches near PC, pencil and notepad, or just 3rd party tools). To prevent this, Blizz can introduce loads of randomness into every encounter, but that could seriously hurt the gameplay.

[Mackeyser]

Of course you won't, you were talking out of your ass and you'd like to avoid discussing that.

Listen, Edgelord. I wasn't getting into it because I didn't have the data to make positive assertions of any kind. So, while anecdotally, I might have noticed that whenever I went to do one, the MT was down, that doesn't mean anything other than I had crappy timing. If Blizz had released data about the uptime of the MT, that would be the basis to start a conversation on whether it was too much, not enough, just right or whatever.

Without that data, there's no point in trying to make an argument because it would be just putting my opinion out there as dogma which I most certainly wasn't doing.

The sum total of what I said was that people are different and what's easy for one person doesn't inherently make it anything for someone else, be it easy, hard, impossible or whatever.

The example I used was the Havoc skin. I was never gonna get it because of my hand tremors. Some folks smoked it with less than 890 gear. God bless.

If saying "everyone is different" is controversial for you or asserting that one's experience isn't the collective experience, then I can't help you.

Regardless, relax. It's over. Patch day his here and the MT is history.

Moving on.

[Snuffleupagus]

Listen, Edgelord. I wasn't getting into it because I didn't have the data to make positive assertions of any kind.

You matter of factly stated "Also, for those that have mentioned it, the Mage Tower being up all the time is simply to help those on low pop servers/server groups where there are almost no one grinding shards."

You talked out of your ass, you got called out on it. Don't muddy the waters with excuses about hand tremors, making stuff up isn't a result of any physical disability, it's a result of you trying to act like an authority on the uptime of the Mage Tower when you clearly did no research.

Regardless, relax. It's over. It's okay to admit you don't know instead of making things up.

Moving on.

[Taeldorian]

I don’t really think these decisions are influenced by “bad players” or anything of the sort.

If you go to the official forums or have in the past, I never saw a single thread about gear swapping in m+. People that didnt know how to or didn’t want to gear swap didn’t care and those who did just kept doing it. Nobody complained, yet they changed it anyway.

They make changes that cater to a certain demographic because they have data that shows them what their primary demographic is and they can make estimates on how to pull new players into the game. Most companies can do things such as this pretty simply it’s just the evaluation and implementation of new systems and who they affect that can be difficult to figure out.

TLDR: I don’t think bad players who post on any forum really have any hold over blizzards big decisions such as M+ changes and personal loot. While they may complain about or praise such changes, they usually do so after the change is announced.

[Mackeyser]

You matter of factly stated "Also, for those that have mentioned it, the Mage Tower being up all the time is simply to help those on low pop servers/server groups where there are almost no one grinding shards."

You talked out of your ass, you got called out on it. Don't muddy the waters with excuses about hand tremors, making stuff up isn't a result of any physical disability, it's a result of you trying to act like an authority on the uptime of the Mage Tower when you clearly did no research.

Regardless, relax. It's over. It's okay to admit you don't know instead of making things up.

Moving on.

Welp, missing the point to be pedantic is worth it, I guess?

The point: the last two months, the MT was up less and less frequently because fewer and fewer people were doing Broken Shore content. It really didn't matter to my point (which I mea culpa'd about being incorrect about server/server group deal) which was that there was less frequency in the last two months. As a matter of fact, the MT being region-wide only makes the point more profound in that the unlock mechanism wasn't something that a few people could farm in a reasonable time.

Whether the MT was server specific or region-wide really made no difference. Being region-wide only emphasized that no smallish group of players trying to get appearances could grind enough to keep the MT up.

The MT was made 24/7 to ensure everyone had as many opportunities as possible to get their challenges done.

I didn't make anything up. I recalled incorrectly. That happens to humans. I'll say it plainly. I had it wrong that the MT was server/server group specific. And?

I'm too old to care enough to take the time to make something up.

I'll leave you the last word where you can either display grace or...more of whatever that last post was.

This is why we can't have nice things, ya know...

[Deleted]

"Choosing not to experience" =\= "sucking".

It still utterly disqualifies you from suggesting any changes to said content, because you can't possibly know what you are talking about.

[Snuffleupagus]

Whether the MT was server specific or region-wide really made no difference. Being region-wide only emphasized that no smallish group of players trying to get appearances could grind enough to keep the MT up.

Mage Tower gave more perks than just the challenges, and enough people were wanting to do more of the skins after their main spec that it was up every week.

I'll leave you the last word where you can either display grace or...more of whatever that last post was.

How gracious. Next time you blindly wade into a thread, don't pretend to be an authority when you're not. Pretty simple.

This is why you can't have nice things.