Trump and Putin Helsinki Meeting

[The Emperor]

Again, do say how it's a conspiracy theory. Also, there's plenty of evidence for it it to be true, the fact you say "proof" is only going to be possible when Mueller shows his hand and Trump is in court testifying.

Provided it is real and not forged, there's so far only circumstantial evidence, which doesn't mean a lot.

[mvaliz]

California alone is the reason why Hillary won the popular vote. The other 49 states + DC had Trump winning Popular vote.

Facts say otherwise, and that you're lying.

A quick search of my home state proves you wrong:

https://www.politico.com/2016-electi...dent/illinois/

Hillary Clinton: 2,977,498
Dumbfuck Donnie: 2,118,179

That's an almost an 860k span there.

[Mayhem]

Facts say otherwise, and that you're lying.

A quick search of my home state proves you wrong:

https://www.politico.com/2016-electi...dent/illinois/

Hillary Clinton: 2,977,498
Dumbfuck Donnie: 2,118,179

That's an almost an 860k span there.

No, he's talking about the other states combined, not each for them. Then he is right, it's pointless and stupid, but he's right.

[jakeic]

No, he's talking about the other states combined, not each for them. Then he is right, it's pointless and stupid, but he's right.

wait, if we don't count votes for Hillary then Trump won the popular vote?!?!?!?

But what happens when we count all the votes?

[mvaliz]

No, he's talking about the other states combined, not each for them. Then he is right, it's pointless and stupid, but he's right.

Ironically, I make the joke to friends and co-workers saying "When you don't count all the times I've been wrong, I've always been right."

[Projectmars]

wait, if we don't count votes for Hillary then Trump won the popular vote?!?!?!?

But what happens when we count all the votes?

Nation-wide:
65,853,514 for Hillary
62,984,828 for Trump
2,868,686 difference

California:
8,753,788 for Hillary
4,483,810 for Trump
4,269,978 difference

Nationwide - California:
57,099,726 for Hilary
58,501,018 for Trump
1,401,292 difference

The point is: If one state can make that huge a difference, I don't think popular vote is as great a method of picking a president for the USA... considering you can just court the hell outta voters in California since, iirc, LA County alone supposedly has more people than several other states and win that way. Only issue is the Electoral college as is also sucks. So, what do ya really do about that?

[Edge-]

Jesus, how did we get sidetracked arguing about Hillary and the election, again?

Back on topic - http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...lligence-loved

Apparently people "at the higher ends of intelligence" loved his press conference. Missing from that statement: Any actual people "at the higher ends of intelligence" who liked his press conference.

[Mayhem]

Jesus, how did we get sidetracked arguing about Hillary and the election, again?

Back on topic - http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...lligence-loved

Apparently people "at the higher ends of intelligence" loved his press conference. Missing from that statement: Any actual people "at the higher ends of intelligence" who liked his press conference.

Oh look, he's lying again, what a surprise that is.

I am in shock, I tell you.

[Projectmars]

He's been having more waffles than a Waffle House these past few days.

[Fugus]

And that is exactly what I'm talking about, you and the others, have been cheated, but you're accusing the wrong person of cheating. You have no evidence, you have nothing but your believe that you've been cheated. Congrats, you and the others that voted against their interests will do it again, I'm sure of it. You're a republican in disguise and you don't even realise it.

Also, I'm still not a Clinton voter, because I'm still not an American citizen.

I understand you aren't an American citizen. Does take time to remember who is who on these forums at times, so might get you mixed up.

And I didn't vote against my own best interests, I didn't vote for Trump, I just didn't vote for Clinton either as she was also voting against my best interests. I would have stayed home and abstained from voting at all rather than vote for either of them and actually voted down ballot democrat for every other slot.

And you keep trying to claim she didn't cheat, you can claim it till the end of time, won't make it true and you won't convince me anymore than I can convince you which is why I am not trying to derail this into another Clinton cheated, No she didn't thread as that is off topic. You see it one way, I see it another and see the Democrats and many others trying to whitewash the event same as Trump supporters and current events.

Now, not trying to go into the cheating or not bit again and lets try and keep it closer to on topic.

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California alone is the reason why Hillary won the popular vote. The other 49 states + DC had Trump winning Popular vote.

You ignore the biggest state to let Trump win?

You can ignore Texas and his loss in popular vote is even more extreme.

You can't ignore states like that, especially the biggest ones which represent the most people.

[Acidbaron]

I sometimes think Trump won't admit to it simply because it means he did the win the presidency based on his personality and performance but due to external forces.

I really think he's that petty.

[Fugus]

The point is: If one state can make that huge a difference, I don't think popular vote is as great a method of picking a president for the USA... considering you can just court the hell outta voters in California since, iirc, LA County alone supposedly has more people than several other states and win that way. Only issue is the Electoral college as is also sucks. So, what do ya really do about that?

The president is supposed to represent the will of the American people, not the will of swing states. The popular vote is the closest thing we have to the ideal way to pick the president of the USA as that puts him more inline with what the average American wants and removes the power of swing states and makes it worth it for fight for every vote instead of 50%+1 of each state to get a majority and screw the states we can't get by that much.

The Senate already balances that out where each state gets equal representation regardless of land or population size.

Unless you think we should pass laws that force states to divide every time the pass a certain population size in which case we can divide California into like 60+ other states giving them that many more Senate seats as well.

[Mayhem]

I understand you aren't am American citizen. Does take time to remember who is who on these forums at times, so might get you mixed up.

No worries.

And I didn't vote against my own best interests, I didn't vote for Trump, I just didn't vote for Clinton either as she was also voting against my best interests. I would have stayed home and abstained from voting at all rather than vote for either of them and actually voted down ballot democrat for every other slot.

You must be aware of your two party system and how it works, I mean, you get that when it's about Bernie's seat for Senate. But, when it's about the presidency you're all, na it's fine not voting or voting for third party, what could go wrong?

Ah, so it was in your best interest to get another republican supreme court judge into office? To help Republicans get closer to winning the election?

And you keep trying to claim she didn't cheat, you can claim it till the end of time, won't make it true and you won't convince me anymore than I can convince you which is why I am not trying to derail this into another Clinton cheated, No she didn't thread as that is off topic. You see it one way, I see it another and see the Democrats and many others trying to whitewash the event same as Trump supporters and current events.

Doesn't really help that you're not reading what I'm linking, so yay for ignoring information, just don't let anything get close to you that could convince you.

- - - Updated - - -

I sometimes think Trump won't admit to it simply because it means he did the win the presidency based on his personality and performance but due to external forces.

I really think he's that petty.

What? Trump being insecure about his accomplishments? No way!

[Fugus]

@Mayhem

I understand the 2 party system, I hate it because it forces voters to vote against their best interests constantly, but I understand it. I voted how I felt knowing the risks it could bring also knowing that even if she lost, it might at least give the Democrats the wake up call they need to not try that crap again.

To have someone cheat you and then you vote for them anyways and reward them for it because they put a gun to your head screwing around on the other side making sure they ran against someone worse is still you rewarding that bad behavior. Hopefully at least with this, they won't try that crap again because they know it can blow up in their face spectacularly.

And I remember that link before a while back, but didn't bother this time because, as I said before, it wasn't relevant to the point I was making and honestly, been splitting attention on here anyways which is why you get the huge delays in my responses most times on here. Summer vacation for children and days and nights are spent with a 9 and 13 year old most of the time.

As I said before, you claim they didn't cheat, from what all I saw, they did and they couldn't even argue they didn't in court and only tried to argue that the courts lacked jurisdiction on the case even if they did cheat. But whether they cheated or just acted pure stupid the entire time to make it appear that way all the way to DWS and how they treated her, the appearance is still there and isn't going away. So running Clinton again would be suicide for the party.

[tyrlaan]

Even I have to admit that the "she won because popular vote" argument is bullshit.

The country is a wide range of cultures and the electoral collage is put in place to reflect that. Hillary fucked up by ignoring a great number of groups in favor of numbers.

Aye, the only point in making the popular vote argument is if we want to talk about our election process and getting rid of the electoral college, otherwise it's a waste of time.

Hillary lost for many reasons, but I struggle to accept that she was ignorant of the the electoral college works, so I wouldn't put that down as one of them.

I am going to need some references for all these "facts" you keep mentioning. But then again, bear in mind, it's not below intelligence officials to straight up lie. In fact, mister Colin Powell once lied in front of the UN Sec. Council and brandished a vial of flour to make his case stronger, to justify starting a war. If they can lie about it to provoke a war there's really little chance they'd be saying truth about something as pedestrian as collusion (compared to war)

You're trying to claim Trump isn't a sexist when we have multiple instances of him being exactly that on audio, so I'm not sure what you call a fact is what the rest of the world calls a fact.

And I didn't vote against my own best interests, I didn't vote for Trump, I just didn't vote for Clinton either as she was also voting against my best interests. I would have stayed home and abstained from voting at all rather than vote for either of them and actually voted down ballot democrat for every other slot.

Hate to break it to you, but not voting, or voting 3rd party in the 2016 election was essentially a vote for Trump. So you did vote against your best interests.

I sometimes think Trump won't admit to it simply because it means he did the win the presidency based on his personality and performance but due to external forces.

I really think he's that petty.

This is how I feel as well. He does seem to have a chubby for Putin, but I think the whole "no collusion" garbage is nothing more than his ego protecting his election victory.

At this point, I'm more infuriated with congressional Republicans for letting this cruel manchild continue to debase our nation more than I am at Trump for being Trump.

[Fugus]

Hate to break it to you, but not voting, or voting 3rd party in the 2016 election was essentially a vote for Trump. So you did vote against your best interests.

No, voting for Trump is voting for Trump. Voting against Trump is voting against Trump.

Going by your logic, every person not voting or voting 3rd party was also essentially a vote for Clinton as well.

And if voting for Trump was against my best interests and voting for Clinton was also against my best interests, then there was no voting FOR my best interests in that election. Sorry, but "None of the Above" was not on the ballot or I would have filled in that bubble without hesitation.

[Acidbaron]

Ah the issues created by an out dated 2 political party system. Where your voice, your vote gets reduced to nothing due to the sheer size of the parties and thus conflicting opinions within.

[Fugus]

Ah the issues created by an out dated 2 political party system. Where your voice, your vote gets reduced to nothing due to the sheer size of the parties and thus conflicting opinions within.

Not only that, winner take all means that unless you are in agreement with 50%+1 of your states voice, you have no voice.

Winning a state with 52% of the vote means your electors go 100% behind that person and the other 48% who voted have no voice in the final say.

Winning the state by 51% is no different than winning it by 99% when it comes to the president in almost every state. Which is how you can lose but still win.

[szechuan]

You can ignore Texas and his loss in popular vote is even more extreme.

Although not perfect I still prefer Alternative Voting for POTUS and Mixed-Member Proportional Representation for congressional seats over First Past the Post and EC.

[Travis B]

California alone is the reason why Hillary won the popular vote. The other 49 states + DC had Trump winning Popular vote.

And if we take away your uncle's balls, he'd be your aunt. Got anymore completely pointless statements you'd like to make?

The point is: If one state can make that huge a difference, I don't think popular vote is as great a method of picking a president for the USA... considering you can just court the hell outta voters in California since, iirc, LA County alone supposedly has more people than several other states and win that way. Only issue is the Electoral college as is also sucks. So, what do ya really do about that?

The ideal method would be that every person's vote matters just as much as anyone else's, regardless of where they live. Too bad we don't have a method like that.......oh wait, we do, it's called the popular vote.