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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    The man saw some random dude arguing at his wife and child and only shoved him away from the car. I can't name too many men who wouldn't do the same walking into a similar situation.

    Had he not been shot the most he would have gotten was a court date depending on prior convictions.

    All because one guy felt like he needed to police the parking lot.
    I haven't seen the video or really dug into the evidence to pick a side.
    That being said it wasn't "All because one guy felt like he needed to police the parking lot", but rather all because someone who shouldn't have parked there parked there. Lazy, inconsiderate, and mild criminal behavior lead to a series of escalating events ending in the loss of a life.

    We can all debate until we are blue in the face about the end results, who is to blame, or if punishment is justified; but to be clear this all began with the actions of the people that parked in the spot they are not allowed to park in. That assumes they are not allowed to park there of course, but I haven't seen any indication they have handicap parking pass.

  2. #22
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    So he was upset about black people parking in a handicapped spot.

    Where's @adam86shadow?

    Another thing black people do that pisses people off is cut in line. Some black people not all, I've had black people apologize to me for other black people cutting in line, I told them no worries.

    I wish he wouldn't have shot that man, I wish they wouldn't park in a handicapped spot unless they were allowed to.
    So you've never seen a white person cut a line? If someone calls you racist for that comment you're going to swear they are doing you wrong.

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    So you've never seen a white person cut a line? If someone calls you racist for that comment you're going to swear they are doing you wrong.
    You can call me a racist all you want.

    Are you going to tell me that black people aren't known for cutting in line?

    I did say not all of them do.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  4. #24
    While sad it would have been kinda funny if they gave her a ticket for parking in a handicap spot after all this.

  5. #25
    Legendary! Collegeguy's Avatar
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    The boyfriend shouldn't have shoved him, but the old guy sounds like an asshole as well seeing as he has a history of this.

  6. #26
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altrec View Post
    I haven't seen the video or really dug into the evidence to pick a side.
    That being said it wasn't "All because one guy felt like he needed to police the parking lot", but rather all because someone who shouldn't have parked there parked there. Lazy, inconsiderate, and mild criminal behavior lead to a series of escalating events ending in the loss of a life.

    We can all debate until we are blue in the face about the end results, who is to blame, or if punishment is justified; but to be clear this all began with the actions of the people that parked in the spot they are not allowed to park in. That assumes they are not allowed to park there of course, but I haven't seen any indication they have handicap parking pass.
    Parking in a handicap spot without a sticker isn't criminal behavior and unless your a cop you have business attempting to enforce a law.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    You can call me a racist all you want.

    Are you going to tell me that black people aren't known for cutting in line?

    I did say not all of them do.
    Yup I going to say it right here. The only people who go around saying black people are known for cutting in line are racist.

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  7. #27
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    While sad it would have been kinda funny if they gave her a ticket for parking in a handicap spot after all this.
    I was honestly thinking that myself... I am a bad person.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Parking in a handicap spot without a sticker isn't criminal behavior and unless your a cop you have business attempting to enforce a law.
    Other side of this argument is that you should be allowed to shame people breaking rules of society without being assaulted.
    Its not black and white.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Altrec View Post
    I haven't seen the video or really dug into the evidence to pick a side.
    That being said it wasn't "All because one guy felt like he needed to police the parking lot", but rather all because someone who shouldn't have parked there parked there. Lazy, inconsiderate, and mild criminal behavior lead to a series of escalating events ending in the loss of a life.

    We can all debate until we are blue in the face about the end results, who is to blame, or if punishment is justified; but to be clear this all began with the actions of the people that parked in the spot they are not allowed to park in. That assumes they are not allowed to park there of course, but I haven't seen any indication they have handicap parking pass.
    To me personally, it is not a question of "who started it", but rather the issue how quickly something like this ends deadly. Yeah, the father was a jerk. But the ease with which people can say "mild criminal behavior led to a father being shot in front of his child. What can you do?" just feels wrong. There are so many ways to handle such a situation without extinguishing a life. But the pushed man did not even try. He felt threatened, a bit hurt, so he just shot. I have been shoved to the ground dozens of times in my life by jerks. I never felt the need to inflict harm upon them, let alone kill them. Yet, there are parts of this world where shooting someone in response to that is not just possible, but also socially acceptable. And that is saddening.

  10. #30
    Why was he not removed from society for the threats prior to this?

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Here it is a $250 fine if you park in a handicap spot without a handicap sticker. And yes, it is very annoying to see those who do it. But not worth shooting someone over it. On the surface, this does not seem like a stand you ground defense by the shooter. But I would need to see a video of such or hear the testimony of the witness there to know for sure.
    Was the shooter handicapped? Was the guy who shoved him to the ground threatening him while he was laying there?
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

  12. #32
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    Other side of this argument is that you should be allowed to shame people breaking rules of society without being assaulted.
    Its not black and white.
    We have a justice system. The man was big enough to run his mouth at a woman but gets shoved by a man and pulls a gun. Definition of a coward.

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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Parking in a handicap spot without a sticker isn't criminal behavior and unless your a cop you have business attempting to enforce a law.
    It is illegal to park in handicap space when you are not handicapped. It is usually punishable with a fine which is why I said it was mild criminal behavior. We are free to call people out for being assholes and doing something they shouldn't be doing. Do I think confronting the person is generally the best course of action? No, but you are free to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    To me personally, it is not a question of "who started it", but rather the issue how quickly something like this ends deadly. Yeah, the father was a jerk. But the ease with which people can say "mild criminal behavior led to a father being shot in front of his child. What can you do?" just feels wrong. There are so many ways to handle such a situation without extinguishing a life. But the pushed man did not even try. He felt threatened, a bit hurt, so he just shot. I have been shoved to the ground dozens of times in my life by jerks. I never felt the need to inflict harm upon them, let alone kill them. Yet, there are parts of this world where shooting someone in response to that is not just possible, but also socially acceptable. And that is saddening.
    How things start is as important as how they end and everything in-between.

    He was more than a jerk seeing as he pushed the man to the ground. Parking in the handicapped space when you are not supposed to is being a jerk. What feels wrong to me is people using the five year old kid to exploit emotions to defend the dad. It sucks he was shot(rightly or wrongly) in front of his kid, but it also sucks he saw his dad attack someone physically over a petty argument. Take the gun out of the equation things may have been different in so many ways that would still be terrible to have happen in front of the kid.
    I agree that "There are so many ways to handle such a situation without extinguishing a life", but there are also many ways to handle an argument that don't involve physically shoving someone to the ground.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    We have a justice system. The man was big enough to run his mouth at a woman but gets shoved by a man and pulls a gun. Definition of a coward.
    Your definitions are meaningless.
    All that matters is the court of law.

  15. #35
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    Your definitions are meaningless.
    All that matters is the court of law.
    The law is protecting a coward and the mentality of cowards.
    The law does not make him any less of a coward.

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  16. #36
    Deleted
    American cowardice, that's what this is.
    I bet the little bitch that was shoved 'feared for his life'. No wonder thousands of people die in the US every year due to gun violence.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Altrec View Post
    It is illegal to park in handicap space when you are not handicapped. It is usually punishable with a fine which is why I said it was mild criminal behavior. We are free to call people out for being assholes and doing something they shouldn't be doing. Do I think confronting the person is generally the best course of action? No, but you are free to do so.

    How things start is as important as how they end and everything in-between.

    He was more than a jerk seeing as he pushed the man to the ground. Parking in the handicapped space when you are not supposed to is being a jerk. What feels wrong to me is people using the five year old kid to exploit emotions to defend the dad. It sucks he was shot(rightly or wrongly) in front of his kid, but it also sucks he saw his dad attack someone physically over a petty argument. Take the gun out of the equation things may have been different in so many ways that would still be terrible to have happen in front of the kid.
    I agree that "There are so many ways to handle such a situation without extinguishing a life", but there are also many ways to handle an argument that don't involve physically shoving someone to the ground.
    I would not really call it exploitation, to be honest. There is a difference between just 'shooting some guy' and 'shooting some guy in front of his son'. One is taking a life, another is taking a life and traumatizing an innocent. But this kind of collateral damage just gets swept away as 'exploiting the kid' or something.

    I also disagree with the notion that the start is as important as the end and all in-between. A holistic view of events, sure, but all on the same level? Definitely not. If the father had not gotten touchy and politely told the old man to leave, yet still got shot, we would be having a totally different conversation here.
    Besides, it was not even my point there. My point was that it does not really matter who started it, but rather that a small argument over something relatively minor led to a death. That is not ignoring the starting point to begin with. My point is that the man on the ground - and apparently a lot of other Americans - believe that killing someone because they pushed a man to the ground and are a jerk is justified.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The man isn't going to be charged? Seriously? He's a murderer, IMO.
    But Florida has an NRA-supported, ALEC-written "Kill at Will Law".
    Last edited by Eosia; 2018-07-20 at 10:54 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Here it is a $250 fine if you park in a handicap spot without a handicap sticker. And yes, it is very annoying to see those who do it. But not worth shooting someone over it. On the surface, this does not seem like a stand you ground defense by the shooter. But I would need to see a video of such or hear the testimony of the witness there to know for sure.
    Was the shooter handicapped? Was the guy who shoved him to the ground threatening him while he was laying there?
    http://fox13news.com/news/local-news...g-deputies-say
    WARNING: This is a video of the shooting. It's not particularly good quality or graphic but warning none the less

    GP, did you view the video. The man blindsided him knocking him down and continued advancing until he saw the old guy going for his gun. The old guy hit the ground after being blindsided and rolled away while reaching for his firearm. This is almost exactly what someone would train for when hit unexpectedly and knocked prone. There is perhaps a second where he had drawn and maybe could have just held him at gun point but without better quality video or some kind of audio to go with it, I wouldn't second guess him.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Thwart View Post
    http://fox13news.com/news/local-news...g-deputies-say
    WARNING: This is a video of the shooting. It's not particularly good quality or graphic but warning none the less

    GP, did you view the video. The man blindsided him knocking him down and continued advancing until he saw the old guy going for his gun. The old guy hit the ground after being blindsided and rolled away while reaching for his firearm. This is almost exactly what someone would train for when hit unexpectedly and knocked prone. There is perhaps a second where he had drawn and maybe could have just held him at gun point but without better quality video or some kind of audio to go with it, I wouldn't second guess him.
    The issue of course being the 4 sec when the victim realizes the man has the gun and backs away and Drejka fires regardless of him retreating.

    That isn't stand your ground. That is murder.

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