"You missed BFA? Aw man, you missed out on the Horde & Alliance fighting each other!"

[thottstation]

This is the problem I have with Battle For Azeroth: the theme.

Strip away everything from every expansion, and what is it?

TBC
Cinematic: "Illidan is big and tough!"
Assumption: You fight and beat him.

WotLK
Cinematic: "The Lich King is big and tough!"
Assumption: You fight and beat him.

Cata
Cinematic: "Deathwing is big and tough!"
Assumption: You fight and beat him.

MoP
Cinematic: "Behold! Pandaria! Pandas!"
Assumption: You'll enjoy your time in Pandaland.

WoD
Cinematic: "Alternate Timeline Orcs are big and tough!"
Assumption: You beat them all.

Leg
Cinematic: "Demons are big and tough!"
Assumption: You beat them all.

And now, we come to BfA:

BfA
Cinematic: "The Horde & Alliance are fighting each other!"
How it likely ends:
The Alliance beats the Horde? NO.
The Horde beats the Alliance? NO.
The war ends? NO.

Telling people they can't miss out on BfA is like telling people they can't miss out on Patch 5.2.

5.2. LANDFALL
The conflict between the Horde and the Alliance has ignited a new series of daily quests.
Players can visit their faction strongholds to begin the quest to summon their war fleets.
Players will both valiantly defend their faction's outpost and assault the opposing faction's headquarters.
Two new Reputations have been added: Alliance players can earn reputation with Operation: Shieldwall, while Horde players will curry favor with the Dominance Offensive.




I'm sure people will say "But in BFA we get to fight and kill Azshara!" or something like that. But I'm talking about the core theme of the whole expansion. Legion was about the demon's final invasion of Azeroth. Yes, we fought Xavius, but that wasn't the core theme that was advertised in the trailer, just like fighting and killing Ragnaros and Cho'Gall wasn't the core theme of Cataclysm. They were just big name lore characters we fought for a tier. I'm sure there will be many quests that explain why Azshara is a big deal, and the boss fight will be tough... but that's not the core theme of BfA.

The core theme of BfA is "The Alliance and The Horde are going to war!"

And I'm like... so?

We were fighting before BfA.
We will be fighting during BfA.
And we will be fighting after BfA.
We will be fighting 3 expansions after BFA.

The core theme just doesn't give us a sense of importance or purpose. Every expansion either presented us with an all-powerful villain and demonstrates how lethal and grand he and his forces are, which implied we will grow in strength and power throughout the adventure, and eventually we WILL fight him head on and defeat him. Or, in he case of MoP, the theme was explore a whole new world and here's a new race; we're going to spend the next few years immersed in their land and culture, with both sides getting to play them.

But BfA? The core theme is war between the Horde and Alliance. That's it. That's the theme. But there's no world-changing assumption that the war will end one way or the other, so who cares? If the theme and cinematic was instead "Behold! A continent of snake people!", at least that would give players a fundamental sense of the world being different than it was before BfA; there weren't snake people before, and now there are. Let's spend the next 2 years living in SnakeLand. It's Blizzard's job to make that interesting/enjoyable with lasting repurcussions. But they (rightly) didn't go with that theme.

But the theme Blizzard went with is just... not a big deal to me. It's not a happening, as they say. I'm sure we'll be presented with big, evil characters who could destroy the world if champions don't stop them. We beat Xavius in The Nightmare, Nefarion in Blackwing Descent, and Grand Empress Shek'zeer in The Heart of Fear, and we were given zones to quest in to build up their looming threat and how it was a big deal... but they weren't the expansion. Just as questing in new zones under the looming threat of Azshara or some old god isn't the theme of BfA. The theme of BfA is Horde and Alliance fighting.



Every expansion has a core theme of an extraordinary event, and the promise that by the expansion's end, things will be different:

"Outland WAS overrun by Illidan's forces, but we went in and killed them all. Outland is saved!"
"Northrend WAS overrun by Arthas' forces, but we went in and killed them all. Northrend is saved!"
"Azeroth WAS overrun by Deathwing's forces, but we went in and killed them all. Azeroth is saved!"
"We discovered Pandaria, lived in it for years, and now we ALL can play pandas. Enjoy!"
"Draenor WAS overrun by Gul'Dan's forces, but we went in and killed them all. Draenor is saved!"
"Azeroth WAS overrun by demons, but we went in and killed them all. Azeroth is saved!"

So what's the world-changing consequence of BfA going to be?

"Kalimdor WAS overrun by Orcs, but the Alliance went in and killed them all. Kalimdor is saved! NO.
"The Eastern Kingdoms WAS overrun by Humans, but the Horde went in and killed them all. The Eastern Kingdoms is saved! NO.

So how are we supposed to sell BfA?

"In this expansion, the Horde and the Alliance are fighting; Just like they were before, and just like they will after. No new class, no new race, but a few cosmetic upgrades: Different shapes of humans, different shapes of Trolls, different shapes of Elves... etc."



BfA just feels like a big .1 patch, like 5.1: Landfall, or 4.1: Rise of the Zandalari. "The war ignites between the Horde and the Alliance! Also check out this new troll content!"

If there was even a hint that THIS TIME things are different and there was a big ending coming for who the player is fighting against, then that would be something. But there's just not. Of course I'll play, and do all the quests and run the dungeons and kill whatever raid boss is the baddie for 8.0, 8.2, 8.3... but there's just no "endgame" story event to look forward to.

I knew we would eventually "storm the gates" of Illidan/Arthas/whoever's home and fight them directly in past expansions, and the cinematic's job was to build up how much of a BIG DEAL the expansion's big bad guy was, and the zones and quests gave us a sense of gaining ground inch by inch until the whole continent was ours and we pushed all the way from Point A to Point Z and end the evil threat. There's none of that in BfA.

In BfA, the Alliance and Horde will fight each other; make a few clocktowers of stone, a few huts with spikes, and we fight. That's the theme. Other things will happen, no doubt, but the war is the BIG EVENT.

That just doesn't feel like an World of Warcraft expansion pack to me.

[Khaza-R]

Jesus Christ. How retarded do you have to be at this point to not see this is an Old God expansion

[Aeula]

Patch 5.1 and 5.2 were the best patches Blizzard has ever done though. I do pity people who missed them.

The problem I have with ‘big bads’ is that we know we’re going to beat them. From the second we hear their name the only thing about them that matters is what loot they drop. They then cease to be relevant forever. At least the faction conflict provides us with things that are still talked about years after they happened.

Do you think anyone will care about Sargeras and his sword in five years? I don’t.

[Sansnom]

In BfA, the Alliance and Horde will fight each other; make a few clocktowers of stone, a few huts with spikes, and we fight. That's the theme. Other things will happen, no doubt, but the war is the BIG EVENT.

Do not really see why that is a big problem. Why not have the war as a main focus?

That just doesn't feel like an World of Warcraft expansion pack to me.

Unfortunate for you. It seems some one always find some thing to complain about some thing they disagree with.

[chrisnumbers]

Is this another I Quit thread?
I hope so. One less cry baby.

[Byleth]

You'd have to be totally dense to think that HvA will be the main theme of the Xpac.

It's been alluded to many times in many interviews with developers that that war theme is just an entry point to something deeper and more sinister.

To be honest, at this point I'm glad Blizz has stuck to their guns and keep the true villian up their sleaves, it would've been so easy to shut all this theme whining down by doing a reveal. But they want to reveal it in their own time.

[therealstegblob]

The battle for Azeroth is the battle for Azeroth against the Old Gods.

Spoilerz

[rogoth]

You'd have to be totally dense to think that HvA will be the main theme of the Xpac.

It's been alluded to many times in many interviews with developers that that war theme is just an entry point to something deeper and more sinister.

To be honest, at this point I'm glad Blizz has stuck to their guns and keep the true villian up their sleaves, it would've been so easy to shut all this theme whining down by doing a reveal. But they want to reveal it in their own time.

*puts on metzen voice*: it's N'zoth, sorry folks but that's it, have fun and take care now.

[DaHomieG]

This is the problem I have with Battle For Azeroth: the theme.

Strip away everything from every expansion, and what is it?





And now, we come to BfA:




Telling people they can't miss out on BfA is like telling people they can't miss out on Patch 5.2.

5.2. LANDFALL
The conflict between the Horde and the Alliance has ignited a new series of daily quests.
Players can visit their faction strongholds to begin the quest to summon their war fleets.
Players will both valiantly defend their faction's outpost and assault the opposing faction's headquarters.
Two new Reputations have been added: Alliance players can earn reputation with Operation: Shieldwall, while Horde players will curry favor with the Dominance Offensive.




I'm sure people will say "But in BFA we get to fight and kill Azshara!" or something like that. But I'm talking about the core theme of the whole expansion. Legion was about the demon's final invasion of Azeroth. Yes, we fought Xavius, but that wasn't the core theme that was advertised in the trailer, just like fighting and killing Ragnaros and Cho'Gall wasn't the core theme of Cataclysm. They were just big name lore characters we fought for a tier. I'm sure there will be many quests that explain why Azshara is a big deal, and the boss fight will be tough... but that's not the core theme of BfA.

The core theme of BfA is "The Alliance and The Horde are going to war!"

And I'm like... so?

We were fighting before BfA.
We will be fighting during BfA.
And we will be fighting after BfA.
We will be fighting 3 expansions after BFA.

The core theme just doesn't give us a sense of importance or purpose. Every expansion either presented us with an all-powerful villain and demonstrates how lethal and grand he and his forces are, which implied we will grow in strength and power throughout the adventure, and eventually we WILL fight him head on and defeat him. Or, in he case of MoP, the theme was explore a whole new world and here's a new race; we're going to spend the next few years immersed in their land and culture, with both sides getting to play them.

But BfA? The core theme is war between the Horde and Alliance. That's it. That's the theme. But there's no world-changing assumption that the war will end one way or the other, so who cares? If the theme and cinematic was instead "Behold! A continent of snake people!", at least that would give players a fundamental sense of the world being different than it was before BfA; there weren't snake people before, and now there are. Let's spend the next 2 years living in SnakeLand. It's Blizzard's job to make that interesting/enjoyable with lasting repurcussions. But they (rightly) didn't go with that theme.

But the theme Blizzard went with is just... not a big deal to me. It's not a happening, as they say. I'm sure we'll be presented with big, evil characters who could destroy the world if champions don't stop them. We beat Xavius in The Nightmare, Nefarion in Blackwing Descent, and Grand Empress Shek'zeer in The Heart of Fear, and we were given zones to quest in to build up their looming threat and how it was a big deal... but they weren't the expansion. Just as questing in new zones under the looming threat of Azshara or some old god isn't the theme of BfA. The theme of BfA is Horde and Alliance fighting.



Every expansion has a core theme of an extraordinary event, and the promise that by the expansion's end, things will be different:



So what's the world-changing consequence of BfA going to be?



So how are we supposed to sell BfA?

"In this expansion, the Horde and the Alliance are fighting; Just like they were before, and just like they will after. No new class, no new race, but a few cosmetic upgrades: Different shapes of humans, different shapes of Trolls, different shapes of Elves... etc."



BfA just feels like a big .1 patch, like 5.1: Landfall, or 4.1: Rise of the Zandalari. "The war ignites between the Horde and the Alliance! Also check out this new troll content!"

If there was even a hint that THIS TIME things are different and there was a big ending coming for who the player is fighting against, then that would be something. But there's just not. Of course I'll play, and do all the quests and run the dungeons and kill whatever raid boss is the baddie for 8.0, 8.2, 8.3... but there's just no "endgame" story event to look forward to.

I knew we would eventually "storm the gates" of Illidan/Arthas/whoever's home and fight them directly in past expansions, and the cinematic's job was to build up how much of a BIG DEAL the expansion's big bad guy was, and the zones and quests gave us a sense of gaining ground inch by inch until the whole continent was ours and we pushed all the way from Point A to Point Z and end the evil threat. There's none of that in BfA.

In BfA, the Alliance and Horde will fight each other; make a few clocktowers of stone, a few huts with spikes, and we fight. That's the theme. Other things will happen, no doubt, but the war is the BIG EVENT.

That just doesn't feel like an World of Warcraft expansion pack to me.

Clearly what you haven't realized yet because you've been busy hating is the underlying tone of the expansion is the imminent attack of the Void, thus making it a Void themed expansion.

They've been dropping hints since Legion that while the demons were attacking Azeroth the Void is plotting in the background the whole time, knowing the Legion will fail and leave them an opening for attack. Essentially Azeroth is getting fucked twice in a row.

From a simplistic content minded point of view like yours, Legion was basically a "here have what you've been asking for give me money" expansion. They gave us Sargeras, which everyone wanted. It gave us Illidan and a sort of BC 2.0 feel. Everybody always wanted Demon Hunters to be a class, so we got that. People wanted certain lore related weapons like Ashbringer and the Scythe of Elune; we literally got those too. People also wanted to see the legendary Tomb of Sargeras, and we got to see that too. Even Argus, the home of the Draenei, we finally got to go there. And lastly, everyone wanted to know what happened to Turalyon and Alleria, so we finally found them.

Now in Battle for Azeroth, while being disguised as another war between the Horde and Alliance, we're getting a LOT of Void undertones leading up to now. Bosses from the Shrine of Storms, or Uldir, are all leading up to an inevitable showing of the Void which will most likely end the expansion later on. However, like Legion they're also spoon feeding us shit we've been asking for for a long time. People wanted a South Seas expansion, and this one seems a lot like it, since we're getting Kul'Tiras and eventually other islands like Balor, Crestfall, Zul'dare and Tel'abim. People wanted Aszhara, and she's coming in this expansion too. Everyone always wanted Mag'har orcs, so we got them and even the Draenor skins too. People wanted High Elves, and they got them to some degree with Void Elves lol. We even got another race of dwarf out of the three. People always wanted to see Zandalar so they gave us just that and even the fucking race along with it. Human druids? bam, Kul'Tirans.

They're probably gonna gonna give us Tinkers and some other wild shit too, next expansion.

TL;DR be patient there's some crazy shit coming

[Fuze]

*puts on metzen voice*: it's N'zoth, sorry folks but that's it, have fun and take care now.

Man, I miss Metzen

[comandante cobra]

Man, I miss Metzen

2!

/10chars

[Icoblablubb]

Agree with all...

- - - Updated - - -



2!

/10chars

so you are as stupid as the OP ... every human being who has an IQ higher than a toaster knows that the faction war is just a thing until we get to the Azshara raid where Alliance and Horde again has to unite to face off against N'zoth ... did u even watched blizzcon or played Beta or read anything about BfA Story at all? how do people still think BfA is just about Aliance vs Horde

[De Lupe]

*WALL OF STUFF*

* Engages theorycrafting mode*

* Walks away whistling.*

[comandante cobra]

so you are as stupid as the OP ... every human being who has an IQ higher than a toaster knows that the faction war is just a thing until we get to the Azshara raid where Alliance and Horde again has to unite to face off against N'zoth ... did u even watched blizzcon or played Beta or read anything about BfA Story at all? how do people still think BfA is just about Aliance vs Horde

Fck! What I do not like is this faction war. I never liked this shit faction war, it's a very old plot and without any creativity. Horde and Alliance fight each other and then join... again! They could make a better story, but insist on faction war as an appeal to get some more money. It is past time for the factions to join in once and end the war with each other. Im not "stupid", im just dont like this shit war again and again. Some hordes deserves to die and that's it! And may azshara and N'zoth come!

PS: Stupid is you to respond rudely

[Benomatic]

Why can't this expansion be about all new all fresh content and developments? This is one thing I abhor and fucking hate about Chronicles is that all mystery and all allure has been piss poor explained and had to be explained making all mystery and wonderment null and void. Everything classic had wonderfully implemented has now been and had to be explained to a certain extent which makes adventure dull and insipid.

The constant justification of fleshing out backstory and rhyme and reason is diluting any sense of adventure, mystery and awe.

A fresh unattached expansion is needed.

[WowIsDead64]

Yeah, that's why I don't like BFA - the same reason, why MOP story failed. This is core PVP aspect problem in every single MMO - players just can't be bad. NPCs can, but not players. And therefore at the end Horde can't be bad and Alliance can't be bad. Opposite faction can be shown as bad in PVE quests, but this point of view is purely relative, as other faction sees the same thing too. So neither Horde, nor Alliance can win in this war. And therefore it's just pointless.

[TheRogue]

Azshara is literally confirmed as mid expansion boss....

[Themerlin]

Jesus Christ. How retarded do you have to be at this point to not see this is an Old God expansion

N'zoth is NOT in the Maelstrom, and Queen Azshara WILL NOT aid him.

[meroko]

are you really going to pretend Battle for Azeroth isn't MoP all over again? That entire fucking expansion was Alliance vs. Horde with some cool new enemies like Mogu (Sethrak) and some cutesy race like Pandaren (Vulperan) and then it ends with heavy Old God implications from Y'shaarj (N'zoth)

This is literally the same formula. If anything it's a good sign, not a bad one. MoP and BFA are the ONLY expansions that do not have a clear enemy when starting it. MoP was highly successful for this, and the hope is that BFA will be the same.

- - - Updated - - -

Azshara is literally confirmed as mid expansion boss....

Actually she's first tier final boss (Like Gul'dan was in Nighthold)

[TheRogue]

That is what I mean, I kinda forgot thath NH was technically T1 after EN and ToV.