Trump calls the European Union a 'foe' of the United States

[Deleted]

Yeah, no. Not in this case. The EU is actually proving new grounds. Europe (the countries that matter anyway) has never been universally at peace for over 2000 years. Now we are. And I'll be celebrating a century of peace in Europe in my time. Historically, even with all the shit going on, things are looking brighter than they have ever been in the past 2000+ years.

Europe has had wars. Stop pretending otherwise. The fact that you don't even consider for a second the Yugoslav War or the Ukraine conflict when talking about war and peace in Europe shows just how much you care about the rest.

For what it matters, the entire world is more peaceful than ever. Ignore the Middle East for a second and the world looks so fantastically peaceful. That's because it is.

It's not because of the European Union. It's because we have weapons that can destroy every inch of life on the planet if major countries went to a major war with one another.

The idea that without the EU, France and the UK or Germany would go at it is just comically ridiculous. They don't have disputes that are nearly severe enough to trigger a war. They'd rather secure their prosperity than to go to war over things like their former emperors and kings did. We don't live in those times.

The EU didn't end warfare. It simply came at a time when everybody knew that major wars would result in the end of the globe. Like, why would Germany want to go to war with a nuclear power like France or Russia? It would be annihilated.

You should thank the nukes, not the EU.

Your silly project will die and you need to come to terms with it. Nobody really likes it. Even us in Eastern Europe hate you very badly. We'd rather join up with Russia one day (and we will) and have our own union rather than be with Germans and what have you.

[Elegiac]

Europe has had wars. Stop pretending otherwise. The fact that you don't even consider for a second the Yugoslav War or the Ukraine conflict when talking about war and peace in Europe shows just how much you care about the rest.

For what it matters, the entire world is more peaceful than ever. Ignore the Middle East for a second and the world looks so fantastically peaceful. That's because it is.

It's not because of the European Union. It's because we have weapons that can destroy every inch of life on the planet if major countries went to a major war with one another.

The idea that without the EU, France and the UK or Germany would go at it is just comically ridiculous. They don't have disputes that are nearly severe enough to trigger a war. They'd rather secure their prosperity than to go to war over things like their former emperors and kings did. We don't live in those times.

The EU didn't end warfare. It simply came at a time when everybody knew that major wars would result in the end of the globe. Like, why would Germany want to go to war with a nuclear power like France or Russia? It would be annihilated.

You should thank the nukes, not the EU.

Your silly project will die and you need to come to terms with it. Nobody really likes it. Even us in Eastern Europe hate you very badly. We'd rather join up with Russia one day (and we will) and have our own union rather than be with Germans and what have you.

We're talking about Europe proper, not the periphery.

Also; no. Plenty of people like it, and plenty of people that don't like it dislike it precisely because it doesn't have enough power to compensate for national level foolishness.

It's really telling how deep you've immersed yourself in propaganda that all you can scream about is "but Germany".

[Deleted]

We're talking about Europe proper, not the periphery.

Also; no. Plenty of people like it, and plenty of people that don't like it dislike it precisely because it doesn't have enough power to compensate for national level foolishness.

Thanks for showing your true colours... as if it wasn't obvious enough already.

Europe "proper" is your Anglo-Saxon sphere, and that's what you all really care about. Everybody knows this. You don't care about Estonia, Poland, or anybody else but your own sphere, and all you want is to drain us of our talented people and use our working force to build your countries. Cute attempt at being sneaky, yes, but unfortunately very obvious.

[Jastall]

I'm not going to reiterate such a clear post. It's for a whole lot of reasons, not just that. You can go back to the 1500's and see what happened to South-Eastern Europe at the hand of the Ottomans because nobody in the West made a sincere effort to help repel them. Then you can go to Poland prior to WW2 and see who among their allies came to help when the Germans knocked on the door.

There's no important event in the history of Eastern Europe that I can recall currently where Western European powers sacrificed a lot for us.

Take a look at Ukraine. There was every opportunity for Europe to show, in the 21st century, with a much weaker Russia than it was during the Cold War, that you don't mess with Europe and a future potential EU member. Then Russians literally f*cked Europe over by taking a big chunk of Ukraine with no bullets fired and just putting the pen on the paper. That's it.

IT TOOK A PEN AND PAPER FOR RUSSIANS TO MAKE A LAUGHING STOCK OUT OF EUROPE.

Don't you all see how cowardly Western Europe is? You NEVER do anything that is important alone. Literally EVER.

You always rely on America. Always, always, always. You're absolutely, insanely useless.

And speaking of my country: Yes, when something is happening inside your domain, and could have a whole lot of political and humanitarian consequences if left untouched, you actually go and do something about it. You show might. Unity. Strength. Determination. You do it for the sake of the whole of Europe.

But you didn't.

The comes the Ukraine situation and Russia, using not bullets, but pen and paper, makes a laughing stock out of you by stealing land from a European country that does everything it can to join the EU.

Where is the EU?

Who is it benefiting?

It is an EMBARASSEMENT OF A PROJECT.

So you hate them because they don't hold your hands and fix your problems?

It's funny, that's usually the opposite reason of why people hate the EU. Bit refreshing, to be honest, leaving aside the rhetorical hyperbole.

[Elegiac]

Thanks for showing your true colours... as if it wasn't obvious enough already.

Europe "proper" is your Anglo-Saxon sphere, and that's what you all really care about. Everybody knows this. You don't care about Estonia, Poland, or anybody else but your own sphere, and all you want is to drain us of our talented people and use our working force to build your countries. Cute attempt at being sneaky, yes, but unfortunately very obvious.

France, the Netherlands, and Germany are Anglo-Saxon, now? Lol.

I care about them enough to still want them in the EU where their people can benefit from the common market and the wide array of EU funding schemes and social development programs, but let's be real here; they're only actually "relevant" on the world stage insofar as their nuisance value. Sort of like the third world states in the US.

Also; why is it France or Germany's fault none of you lot can offer decent pay, employment, or opportunities for talented people?

[Deleted]

We obviously didn't give a shit about neither the Ukraine nor Syria. The unity that you seem is damaged can be reforged with the next new president. If you think that stuff is permanent, you haven't looked a lot into the history books like you pretend.

Putin is a little dipshit that thinks he's a global superpower. He's not. Russia is not. Russia is a regional power at best. But I think his struggle to remain relevant is cute. I mean, seriously, whenever I happen to watch one of his propaganda stunts, I'm surprised how boldly he talks bullshit. Mind you, I'm not surprised that he talks bullshit, it's literally the same old bullshit the Soviets talked.

No, I'm surprised that nobody here actually gives a toss about Putin or what he says. The last time he was in our press was because Trump makes the news every day and this time it happened to be a meeting about Putin. Yes, that's how irrelevant he is on the global stage.

You very much care about Ukraine, but simply don't have the courage to stand up to Russia.

You know that Russia can send ten nukes in Berlin and you wouldn't respond with even one. Everybody knows this.

The entirety of European defence is provided by America. This is why you cannot respond to Russia in Ukraine. You WANT to. European leaders have aged significantly (go look at their faces) since the Crimean annexation. They don't smile. They're not optimistic. They're stressed and nearly dead inside. You know that Putin has exposed every weakness the West has and on TOP of that, he helped elect Trump, and Trump made everything exponentially worse for you. More than ever before, (Western) Europe is seen as the cowardly place it is.

The idea that Putin isn't relevant is just ridiculously stupid. He is. He's exposing your weaknesses. He's making migrants flow into Europe (whilst you are so stupid to accept them all) and single-handedly making a power like the UK leave (really, you should place ALL the blame on Putin for Brexit) with his propaganda weaponry and engineering social unrest. Not only that, but he's buying time for China to strengthen up and be a REAL pain in the ass for you in the rest of the 21st century.

Can't wait for March 2019!

[Elegiac]

You very much care about Ukraine, but simply don't have the courage to stand up to Russia.

Give it another Presidency, and we'll see.

You know that Russia can send ten nukes in Berlin and you wouldn't respond with even one. Everybody knows this.

Actually, we don't; given how terribly outdated Russia's nuclear arsenal is I'd be surprised if they were batting even with North Korea.

The entirety of European defence is provided by America. This is why you cannot respond to Russia in Ukraine. You WANT to. European leaders have aged significantly (go look at their faces) since the Crimean annexation. They don't smile. They're not optimistic. They're stressed and nearly dead inside. You know that Putin has exposed every weakness the West has and on TOP of that, he helped elect Trump, and Trump made everything exponentially worse for you. More than ever before, (Western) Europe is seen as the cowardly place it is.

The idea that Putin isn't relevant is just ridiculously stupid. He is. He's exposing your weaknesses. He's making migrants flow into Europe (whilst you are so stupid to accept them all) and single-handedly making a power like the UK leave (really, you should place ALL the blame on Putin for Brexit) with his propaganda weaponry and engineering social unrest. Not only that, but he's buying time for China to strengthen up and be a REAL pain in the ass for you in the rest of the 21st century.

Can't wait for March 2019!

Again, Russia isn't materially any better off and is still haemorrhaging capital and talent, moreso now that Putin's trying Tsarism 3.0.

You're small fish compared to China, the EU, or the US. And I can assure you; China will have absolutely no compunctions about knocking Russia into the dirt.

[Deleted]

Give it another Presidency, and we'll see.

Actually, we don't; given how terribly outdated Russia's nuclear arsenal is I'd be surprised if they were batting even with North Korea.


Again, Russia isn't materially any better off and is still haemorrhaging capital and talent, moreso now that Putin's trying Tsarism 3.0.

You're small fish compared to China, the EU, or the US. And I can assure you; China will have absolutely no compunctions about knocking Russia into the dirt.

The damage Trump will do will not be repaired in the near future, that is for sure. We'll see.

Russia's nukes are fine and they are so plenty that 70% can fail and the rest will still melt the world if necessary. Don't worry about their nukes not functioning.

Did you ever hear about the Tsar Bomb? You may wanna know that one of those is more powerful than the entire nuclear arsenal of the North Korea.

China has bigger issues to deal with than Russia. They literally have nothing to get out of a conflic with Russia. They'd be erased easily if it comes to total war, whereas Russia won't because China has few nukes and not many would reach the westernmost part of Russia. Why on earth would they focus on Russia when they have Japan, India, and the US roaming in the Pacific? You really think they have a problem with Russia?

[Elegiac]

The damage Trump will do will not be repaired in the near future, that is for sure.

No, but considering the existing institution was due for an overhaul anyway a little demolition is to be expected.

I fully expect American Government 4.0 to be significantly more sagacious.

Russia's nukes are fine and they are so plenty that 70% can fail and the rest will still melt the world if necessary. Don't worry about their nukes not functioning.

Sure Jan.

Did you ever hear about the Tsar Bomb? You may wanna know that one of those is more powerful than the entire nuclear arsenal of the North Korea.

Yeah, and?

How do you expect to deliver it with crap aircraft and crappier missiles?

China has bigger issues to deal with than Russia. They literally have nothing to get out of a conflic with Russia. They'd be erased easily if it comes to total war, whereas Russia won't because China has few nukes and not many would reach the westernmost part of Russia. Why on earth would they focus on Russia when they have Japan, India, and the US roaming in the Pacific? You really think they have a problem with Russia?

Sorry, weren't you just saying that you were talking about a time period in which the US' influence was markedly decreased?

Russia shares a border with China, that is enough to start friction which Russia would lose, badly.

In short; you lot are safe only because the US and EU are too nice. Even worms will turn, however.

[Deleted]

No, but considering the existing institution was due for an overhaul anyway a little demolition is to be expected.

I fully expect American Government 4.0 to be significantly more sagacious.

Trump is only the beginning.

Yeah, and?

How do you expect to deliver it with crap aircraft and crappier missiles?

They're not crap. Tell me what would prevent thousands of Russia nuke missiles from being delivered. Will you take out their nuclear subs? Will you take down their planes? Will you fast enough distinguish between their dummy and authentic missiles upon launch?

There's no calculation to be made. Russia can melt the world, and while I am glad you think otherwise (because it helps you sleep at night), the reality is as it is.

Sorry, weren't you just saying that you were talking about a time period in which the US' influence was markedly decreased?

Russia shares a border with China, that is enough to start friction which Russia would lose, badly.

In short; you lot are safe only because the US and EU are too nice. Even worms will turn, however.

America is a far greater threat to China than is Russia.

Russia and China don't have issues. Whoever says they do knows nothing about them. Maybe they will in the future, but not for reasons we know about now. They both have determined enemies to deal with. China wants to make its economy better and beat America and the West in trade. They want to dominate the Pacific. India, Japan, and America all prevent it from doing so. That's altogether almost 2 billion people they are up against. You know who hardly has 150 million? Russia. You know who isn't that interested in the Pacific? Russia. You know what the word is for a Chinese leader who instigates a conflict with Russia, then, rather than the other named countries? "An idiot".

[Elegiac]

Trump is only the beginning.

Given that Trump was a perfect storm of a weak Democratic candidate and a shitty electoral system; unlikely.

It would be different if Trump was a leader that enjoyed broad based popular support, but he doesn't.

They're not crap. Tell me what would prevent thousands of Russia nuke missiles from being delivered.

The fact their delivery systems are crap.

Will you take out their nuclear subs? Will you take down their planes? Will you fast enough distinguish between their dummy and authentic missiles upon launch?

In short; yes. Because their delivery systems are crap.

America is a far greater threat to China than is Russia.

Russia and China don't have issues. Whoever says they do knows nothing about them.

Whoever says that don't have issues or have no grounds for issues hasn't read a history book.

Maybe they will in the future, but not for reasons we know about now. They both have determined enemies to deal with. China wants to make its economy better and beat America and the West in trade. They want to dominate the Pacific. India, Japan, and America all prevent it from doing so. That's altogether almost 2 billion people they are up against. You know who hardly has 150 million? Russia. You know who isn't that interested in the Pacific? Russia. You know what the word is for a Chinese leader who instigates a conflict with Russia, then, rather than the other named countries? "An idiot".

I'll give you a hint; Trump having such an anti-China stance makes it increasingly likely the opposition party is likely to be significantly more pro-China.

Expect a reversal of fortunes when the Democrats get back in.

Also, again; pretty amusing that you support far right parties to "make the West prosperous" and then spend the entirety of this thread shitting on the West because it holds you in contempt for making a persistent nuisance of yourselves.

[Gestopft]

The problem here is that you think that me spelling out my thoughts to you is something you will easily understand, but the reality is that it is as if Hawking explained his PhD thesis to a child.

Actually, the problem is that you think your conception of "the left" and their "project" has anything to do with reality. And/or your definition of "the West" is markedly different than others' conceptions.

[Mormolyce]

The entire project to destroy Western civilization is a far left project, which is ultimately embraced by the entirety of the modern left, which ultimately makes the modern left the far left.

Western civilisation is progressive. It is you who are the outsider, who doesn't belong.

[Wyrt]

We can easily test your knowledge here.

What is, to you, the difference between the left and the far left, and how is the modern left distancing itself from the far left?

Inform us all.

Oh, ffs.

The left is policy that focuses on worker rights. They don't want mass influxes of workers that drive down wages. They don't want workers who can break union strikes. Or who make it harder to negotiate better deals.

You know who does want cheap, easy labor they can exploit? The right does, because money.

Stop conflating the socially liberal right wing with the left wing. Thanks.

[Deleted]

Western civilisation is progressive. It is you who are the outsider, who doesn't belong.

Western Civilization is primarily about embracing the right of the individual to express himself, be free and be safe.

It is not about bringing in hordes of foreigners. It is not about silencing opposition. It is not about embracing the group instead of the individual.

[Elegiac]

Western Civilization is primarily about embracing the right of the individual to express himself, be free and be safe.

It is not about bringing in hordes of foreigners. It is not about silencing opposition. It is not about embracing the group instead of the individual.

I mean, sure. If your only comprehension of Western Civilization is a primary education in a nonwestern country.

[Poopymonster]

If you could, you would.

- - - Updated - - -


Just imagine you're an alien and visit the earth for one week in one civilization.

Where would you go to see the cream of the crop?

I'd google "cream of the crop", wonder why the pictures were blurred, turn off safe search and OH ALMIGHTY TALLEST, THEY WHAT ARE THEY WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

[Mormolyce]

Western Civilization is primarily about embracing the right of the individual to express himself, be free and be safe.

It is not about bringing in hordes of foreigners. It is not about silencing opposition. It is not about embracing the group instead of the individual.

You're right about the last two.



More broadly, as it is individualistic, the West doesn't dictate to people how they live their lives, what they wear, what they eat or what language they speak. Which is why it has always been cosmopolitan and multicultural. And its constant pursuit of improvement leads to us consciously changing our culture over time to make it better.

If you don't like those things, fuck off. You're not welcome here, you don't fit in.

[Deleted]

You're right about the last two.



More broadly, as it is individualistic, the West doesn't dictate to people how they live their lives, what they wear, what they eat or what language they speak. Which is why it has always been cosmopolitan and multicultural. And its constant pursuit of improvement leads to us consciously changing our culture over time to make it better

You are exactly right in that the West shouldn't dictate speech, choice of clothing, or other things like that.

But it can and should dictate who comes in.

If you don't like those things, fuck off. You're not welcome here, you don't fit in.

Where would I "fuck off" to?

[Mormolyce]

You are exactly right in that the West shouldn't dictate speech, choice of clothing, or other things like that.

But it can and should dictate who comes in.

Where would I "fuck off" to?

Well there's a whole world outside the West where xenophobic nationalism is more welcome.