Shadow Priests in the pre-patch (feedback appreciated!) ...

[Deleted]

Ok, so why instead of shadow orbs can't we use insanity for it aswell? It's literally the same - instead of being a proc it's a steady resource stream. Instead of having 5 Orbs and spend one/more you have 100 insanity and spend 50/all.

My main has always been a rogue and i love the combo points mechanic. Tough honestly every class now has them in a way or another and the only thing that changes is how they're generated. So it doesn't differ much from a resource bar.

My opinion here, i like the concept of Insanity as a whole, something you build up but at a certain threshold you want to get rid of it, instead of "use this spell X times, once full spend combo".

EDIT: not an attack, it's a legit question out of curiosity.

As a simple example look at it from a design and user experience point of view, 2 different options using your 50/100, for simplicity let's assume that it is ALWAYS simple numbers, like 25 generated, or 50 generated, so

• 1- Your insanity bar is just a flat bar where you have to look and see its 3/4 full or 1/2 full etc to see you have 3 or 2 cps respectively, it's always going to be a static "health" bar that fills up, kinda boring and restrictive on where you actually see this resource, you have to have another "health" bar added to your screen somewhere on your ui unless you only want to have the one under your portrait
  Just imagine how awkward it would be if rogues had a health bar, an energy bar and a combo points "health" bar, that's what we would have with health insanity and mana.
• 2- Your insanity bar is beautiful looking orbs that fill up at every 25 insanity, you can have the orbs attached to target unit frames, targets health bar, anywhere really, and can be a lot smaller for custom visuals such as weakauras, the player can give a quick glance and see 3 orbs are lit or 4 orbs are lit, also displays visuals on your character and has glyph options.

Overly biased probably but that's a justification from a visuals pov in favor of orbs.
Orbs were fantastic and the only real flaw they had was they had no regeneration out of combat to them like other similar system classes did (rogues do not need this with how fast they generate, we were a slow building combo point spender) so after wipes you were running out of instances trying to build some orbs, using your cow tornado pet and PRAYING for some tornados to appear so you could build on your way back. If we had something similar to warlocks generating 3 shards out of combat orbs would have been absolutely perfect and i really want them back.

[vertigo12]

As a simple example look at it from a design and user experience point of view, 2 different options using your 50/100, for simplicity let's assume that it is ALWAYS simple numbers, like 25 generated, or 50 generated, so

• 1- Your insanity bar is just a flat bar where you have to look and see its 3/4 full or 1/2 full etc to see you have 3 or 2 cps respectively, it's always going to be a static "health" bar that fills up, kinda boring and restrictive on where you actually see this resource, you have to have another "health" bar added to your screen somewhere on your ui unless you only want to have the one under your portrait
  Just imagine how awkward it would be if rogues had a health bar, an energy bar and a combo points "health" bar, that's what we would have with health insanity and mana.
• 2- Your insanity bar is beautiful looking orbs that fill up at every 25 insanity, you can have the orbs attached to target unit frames, targets health bar, anywhere really, and can be a lot smaller for custom visuals such as weakauras, the player can give a quick glance and see 3 orbs are lit or 4 orbs are lit, also displays visuals on your character and has glyph options.

Overly biased probably but that's a justification from a visuals pov in favor of orbs.
Orbs were fantastic and the only real flaw they had was they had no regeneration out of combat to them like other similar system classes did (rogues do not need this with how fast they generate, we were a slow building combo point spender) so after wipes you were running out of instances trying to build some orbs, using your cow tornado pet and PRAYING for some tornados to appear so you could build on your way back. If we had something similar to warlocks generating 3 shards out of combat orbs would have been absolutely perfect and i really want them back.

Insanity is an abstract concept and Shadowy Orbs is such a heresy in defining it. Insanity was suppose to be the inverse of health bar, yes you are correct because insanity is like HP loss. To be able to keep yourself sane you have to maintain yourself from loosing into insanity thus it reaches zero. You have all the spell in your toolkit which builds insanity as resource and loose yourself to it or simply erupting. Thus surrender to madness and from a flavor mechanics stand point Legacy of the void invokes voidform.

One concept embraces shadow while the other is through the mind or psychic.

The reason for the 30 sec insanity generation halt is similar to hypothermia or forebearance. You are in a state of fatigue. It's like a maniac who is having episodic attacks as you hear whispers in your mind which fills you with dark thought. Treat it as your Power Infusion if you must, a personal cooldown Bloodlust.

[Cytraz]

TLDR:

Spriests are pretty bad in PvP right now. M+ wise they do among the best AoE damage, especially on +5 packs, and decent single target damage.

---

After having played some PvP and PvE as Spriest in prepatch, these are my thoughts:

PvP-wise, they arent very strong atm. Feels like everytime a melee jumps me in a bg, I am unable to survive long enough for CC spells to come off cd (fear and psychic horror, which are both used to peel the melee off of me, but they trinket the fear and sit the stun) and kill. Also, spriest damage isnt as high as some of the other classes. Before 8.0, if I applied VT + SW:P to every target, I would easily be top 3 DPS. Now, even though I apply dots the same way, they just arent doing enough damage to compete with other classes like warlocks and boomkins. I havent done much arena, but I imagine it being pretty bad, because of the lack of survivability/durability of spriests.

PvE-wise (m+ wise mainly), I do tons of AoE burst. I dont think any other class brings as much AoE burst as Spriests right now in +5 packs. Apply Dark Void + Dark Ascension and check your DPS meter immediately, and you will see what I mean. After that the DPS slows down a bit, but I usually still pull ahead of the other 2 DPS on the +5 packs. ST is decent, but I find the greatest strengths of Spriests by far right now to be in terms of AoE. However, I am wearing the legendary chest, which means DA deals +75% damage, which is a lot of the reason why I do so much burst in AoE.

[Jaewalk]

TLDR:

Spriests are pretty bad in PvP right now. M+ wise they do among the best AoE damage, especially on +5 packs, and decent single target damage.

---

After having played some PvP and PvE as Spriest in prepatch, these are my thoughts:

PvP-wise, they arent very strong atm. Feels like everytime a melee jumps me in a bg, I am unable to survive long enough for CC spells to come off cd (fear and psychic horror, which are both used to peel the melee off of me, but they trinket the fear and sit the stun) and kill. Also, spriest damage isnt as high as some of the other classes. Before 8.0, if I applied VT + SW:P to every target, I would easily be top 3 DPS. Now, even though I apply dots the same way, they just arent doing enough damage to compete with other classes like warlocks and boomkins. I havent done much arena, but I imagine it being pretty bad, because of the lack of survivability/durability of spriests.

PvE-wise (m+ wise mainly), I do tons of AoE burst. I dont think any other class brings as much AoE burst as Spriests right now in +5 packs. Apply Dark Void + Dark Ascension and check your DPS meter immediately, and you will see what I mean. After that the DPS slows down a bit, but I usually still pull ahead of the other 2 DPS on the +5 packs. ST is decent, but I find the greatest strengths of Spriests by far right now to be in terms of AoE. However, I am wearing the legendary chest, which means DA deals +75% damage, which is a lot of the reason why I do so much burst in AoE.

I'm having the opposite experience... I feel like shadowpriest is brokenly OP in BGs,,,, the DPS and burst is just stupid.

[Deleted]

I'm having the opposite experience... I feel like shadowpriest is brokenly OP in BGs,,,, the DPS and burst is just stupid.

Me too. However different experience might be because of gear (for example someone with 40% haste is way more powerful than someone with 20 or 30, same with crit)... and experience on the spec in PvP and other specs as well (so he knows at least how they think/play/their skills).

[Cytraz]

I'm having the opposite experience... I feel like shadowpriest is brokenly OP in BGs,,,, the DPS and burst is just stupid.

Hmm, thats odd

[Kieldon]

I was disappointed at first but the more I play it the more optimistic I feel about it. I actually enjoy it better than before. Shadowcrash in a different tier, Dark Ascension and Mind Sear? Yes please.

But a rework is still needed.

[Cytraz]

Me too. However different experience might be because of gear (for example someone with 40% haste is way more powerful than someone with 20 or 30, same with crit)... and experience on the spec in PvP and other specs as well (so he knows at least how they think/play/their skills).

What ilvl are you guys running in bgs? I am on the low-end at 210, which I just got to 2 days ago, so I gotta take into consideration that my gear is lackluster. Afaik, if I am running ilvl 210 and some other guy is running 235 ilvl, he should be doing approximately 4% more damage than me and have 4% more hp in a bg. Maybe this matters more than I think it does, but I find it hard to believe that "it is just a gear issue".

What about 1v1 in bgs vs melee? Do you find yourself being able to win the 1v1?

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What ilvl are you guys running in bgs? I am on the low-end at 210, which I just got to 2 days ago, so I gotta take into consideration that my gear is lackluster. Afaik, if I am running ilvl 210 and some other guy is running 235 ilvl, he should be doing approximately 4% more damage than me and have 4% more hp in a bg. Maybe this matters more than I think it does, but I find it hard to believe that "it is just a gear issue".

What about 1v1 in bgs vs melee? Do you find yourself being able to win the 1v1?

Read above

[Deleted]

@Cytraz Don't expect to be able to 1v1 any melee as shadow, it just won't happen for you unless the guy is afk. Gear differences doesn't mean a damn in shadow vs melee 1v1 they have a massive advantage over you at all times with their toolkit vs how shadow works. Juke his kicks every 10-15 sec and you have a slim chance but you should not expect to win, you are best to prolong the fight as much as you can until you have allies making it 2v1

Abuse cliffs and mind control as much as possible.

[Jaewalk]

I’m at i240 with 38% haste and people just melt right now. I’ve been doing RBG’s with a guild balance Druid/affliction lock/UH DK..... we don’t even bother calling out priority targets because the enemy team just falls over with all of the AOE Doting. The balance Druid and me are usually neck & neck (he has 10ilvls on me)—usually almost double the dmg of the rest of the RBG. (The Crit from the moonkin is awesome).. sometimes the UHDK crushes everyone in damage if he sits in a fight with a lot of melee for a long time.

Shadow is one of the most gear dependent specs in the game so that is probably why your getting bad results. Yeah if a melee sits on you it sucks... need to kite well and learn how to bait abilities/interrupts to mind control people away.

PvP is so imbalanced right now—- pro tip - use pvp trinkets or stat sticks because PVE trinkets were nerfed.

[Onyd]

I was disappointed at first but the more I play it the more optimistic I feel about it. I actually enjoy it better than before. Shadowcrash in a different tier, Dark Ascension and Mind Sear? Yes please.

But a rework is still needed.

SW:V + DV + SC + DA turn out to be quite fun.

[Jaewalk]

TLDR:

Spriests are pretty bad in PvP right now. M+ wise they do among the best AoE damage, especially on +5 packs, and decent single target damage.

---

After having played some PvP and PvE as Spriest in prepatch, these are my thoughts:

PvP-wise, they arent very strong atm. Feels like everytime a melee jumps me in a bg, I am unable to survive long enough for CC spells to come off cd (fear and psychic horror, which are both used to peel the melee off of me, but they trinket the fear and sit the stun) and kill. Also, spriest damage isnt as high as some of the other classes. Before 8.0, if I applied VT + SW:P to every target, I would easily be top 3 DPS. Now, even though I apply dots the same way, they just arent doing enough damage to compete with other classes like warlocks and boomkins. I havent done much arena, but I imagine it being pretty bad, because of the lack of survivability/durability of spriests.

PvE-wise (m+ wise mainly), I do tons of AoE burst. I dont think any other class brings as much AoE burst as Spriests right now in +5 packs. Apply Dark Void + Dark Ascension and check your DPS meter immediately, and you will see what I mean. After that the DPS slows down a bit, but I usually still pull ahead of the other 2 DPS on the +5 packs. ST is decent, but I find the greatest strengths of Spriests by far right now to be in terms of AoE. However, I am wearing the legendary chest, which means DA deals +75% damage, which is a lot of the reason why I do so much burst in AoE.

Hi Cytraz, my guildy saw your post and made this video for you Enjoy


https://youtu.be/4aGifvGkocE

[Valette]

I really dont like it. The more I play of it, the more I loathe it.
>Voidform just feels pointless. It feels like you want to fall out so you can void erupt again.
>Not having sw:d in open world just feels lame.
>Having to maintain and refresh dots will always feel bad as long as our playstyle revolves around fighting insanity drain.
>Dispersion feels super sad.
>I hate the new void eruption, especially in open world. In m+ its alright cause the mobs are usually clumped up, but as soon as they're not, like in open world, the 10 yard range feels so sad. Nothing felt more satisfying than dotting several targets and then having void eruption fly everywhere.
>>I wish they had just kept the old eruption while adding the new. So that your void erupt hits all targets within 10 yards AND every mob affected by either of our dots.

Atleast our new voidform visual is pretty

[Cytraz]

Hi Cytraz, my guildy saw your post and made this video for you Enjoy


https://youtu.be/4aGifvGkocE

Lmfao, nice video.

Although a few points to be made:

1) Your friend is running 239 ilvl, while I am running at 210 ilvl. Something I discovered yesterday was that templates HAVE BEEN REMOVED from the game, meaning that gear matters a whole lot more compared to Legion
2) That warrior in the first clip? He has 181 ilvl. Try put him up against a Fury Warrior with 239 ilvl
3) In almost every clip where your friend gets jumped by melees, he has a hunter/mage/<insert class> that is helping him out

I think the main thing though is his ilvl. I think 239 is far above average ilvl in a bg like that, so he probably outgears most people. In a strict 1v1 vs a melee (with about the same gear), I bet he would lose every time against a decent player.

I dare your friend to duel decent melees with 239 ilvl and post it on youtube

[Jaewalk]

Lmfao, nice video.

Although a few points to be made:

1) Your friend is running 239 ilvl, while I am running at 210 ilvl. Something I discovered yesterday was that templates HAVE BEEN REMOVED from the game, meaning that gear matters a whole lot more compared to Legion
2) That warrior in the first clip? He has 181 ilvl. Try put him up against a Fury Warrior with 239 ilvl
3) In almost every clip where your friend gets jumped by melees, he has a hunter/mage/<insert class> that is helping him out

I think the main thing though is his ilvl. I think 239 is far above average ilvl in a bg like that, so he probably outgears most people. In a strict 1v1 vs a melee (with about the same gear), I bet he would lose every time against a decent player.

I dare your friend to duel decent melees with 239 ilvl and post it on youtube

There are people across all ilvls in the video- you said in pvp there is nothing you can do when you get trained by melee and that SP is “bad at pvp” yet she is dominating the meters while constantly being focused usually solo or while her whole team is dead or losing :-) 1v1 vs a very geared fury warrior would probably be tough but a SP is strong vs a lot of classes and when played decently doesn’t just fall over. The crits vs the warrior were really lucky but it does show a way to deal with them.

[Voxbane]

There are people across all ilvls in the video- you said in pvp there is nothing you can do when you get trained by melee and that SP is “bad at pvp” yet she is dominating the meters while constantly being focused usually solo or while her whole team is dead or losing :-) 1v1 vs a very geared fury warrior would probably be tough but a SP is strong vs a lot of classes and when played decently doesn’t just fall over. The crits vs the warrior were really lucky but it does show a way to deal with them.

Hiiii Sweeties! I have dueled very geared warriors (8.0) and sometimes win the first time but once they figure out what I’m doing (aka 100% offense) they will win a second time. Equal skill/equal gear SP will be crushed by SIN rogues (so overtuned right now), DKs, Monk, etc..

However I feel pretty strong vs all of the other casters/hunters, & feral/enh/pal. Rock Paper Scissors... I don’t think priests are supposed to melt everyone :-). I just saw the shadow priest hate and had to stand up for our spec! I cant control what I get when I queue into BG’s but I do think I showed how its possible to be effective in a BG with people all over you

Cheers!

-Voxbane, your mediocre BG hero <3

[Cytraz]

There are people across all ilvls in the video- you said in pvp there is nothing you can do when you get trained by melee and that SP is “bad at pvp” yet she is dominating the meters while constantly being focused usually solo or while her whole team is dead or losing :-) 1v1 vs a very geared fury warrior would probably be tough but a SP is strong vs a lot of classes and when played decently doesn’t just fall over. The crits vs the warrior were really lucky but it does show a way to deal with them.

I actually thought you linked the video as sort of a joke.

I don't think there is a single person who is at his ilvl in that video. He is sitting at 30k hp unbuffed, facing players with hp all the way down to 22k. And in almost every clip, he is getting help from some other guys. If he plays vs Rogue/DK/Warrior in a 1v1, where the enemy is actually as geared as he is, there is no way he is coming out of that alive.

That video is just a showcase of one guy being much better geared relative to the opponents he is facing. Kind of like the vanilla PvP videos, where one guy goes 1v3, because he has insane items.

As I said in my previous post, I found out that there are no templates anymore, which makes PvP very unbalanced for people with lower ilvl gear (not that I mind it, I prefer it that way). That is why I said Spriests were bad. But since templates arent actually in the game anymore, it is impossible to know whether a class is bad or not, when you arent actually equally geared to your opponents.

And not to brag or anything, but I have +10 Gladiator titles under my belt, so I know how to play the class. And there is no way, simply no way, that an equally geared <insert melee class> is going to lose 1v1 to a Shadow Priest in prepatch.

[Voxbane]

Lmfao, nice video.

)

Thank you!!!

[Cytraz]

Thank you!!!

Post a video of you winning duels/bg 1v1s while being up against 240 ilvl rogues, DKs and warriors and I will take back my words about spriests sucking in PvP. But that video of yours is just you being far better geared than everyone else, which doesnt showcase anything x)

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Hiiii Sweeties! I have dueled very geared warriors (8.0) and sometimes win the first time but once they figure out what I’m doing (aka 100% offense) they will win a second time. Equal skill/equal gear SP will be crushed by SIN rogues (so overtuned right now), DKs, Monk, etc..

However I feel pretty strong vs all of the other casters/hunters, & feral/enh/pal. Rock Paper Scissors... I don’t think priests are supposed to melt everyone :-). I just saw the shadow priest hate and had to stand up for our spec! I cant control what I get when I queue into BG’s but I do think I showed how its possible to be effective in a BG with people all over you

Cheers!

-Voxbane, your mediocre BG hero <3

Oh, you actually already said I was right. Spriests do get stomped by equally geared melees. I rest my case.

[Voxbane]

Post a video of you winning duels/bg 1v1s while being up against 240 ilvl rogues, DKs and warriors and I will take back my words about spriests sucking in PvP. But that video of yours is just you being far better geared than everyone else, which doesnt showcase anything x)

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Oh, you actually already said I was right. Spriests do get stomped by equally geared melees. I rest my case.

I never said stomped! So if you cant 1v1 a 240Sin rogue you suck? I don’t think anyone can 1v1 a sin rogue with all its cool downs up on Pre-Patch they are tuned so high pre-patch. By that criteria every class sucks but sin rogue so maybe you should play a Sin rogue.How did this turn into dueling?

If i catch one un-stealthed in the open I will probably melt one... if they ambush me I will probably have a rough day that’s the trade off

Why are you so salty?.. there are people across all ilvls in the bgs... that’s inherently what you get sweetie <3