#1 reason a Legion player would quit classic?

[Ticj]

Lol

Conan the Barbarian spent a lot of his time running. Is that a bad thing?

Lol

You speak and bound with people instead, I fail to see the downside of no LFG

DO NOT PLAY DARK SOULS, EVER

What's the problem?

Again, an occasion to play and bound with other people. So what?

Lol

Requires some thinking before specializing (just like for a career). So what?

Lol

??

Lol

Hence, the feeling of satisfaction you have when you get one.

Play well, be nice and you won't get kicked.

Not until AQ40

Just replied because I was on the throne. But you're just a troll. And a terrible one.
This will be a fun topic I think though.

He's not a troll... it was supposed to be a poll but he messed up.

Btw, what he was talking about with "Getting to 60 and realizing no one wants their favorite spec" is that in vanilla WoW, a huge amount of classes had only 1 spec that was good enough to raid with.

[Biomega]

#1 reason people who have no clue wtf they are talking about would keep making posts about vanilla?

Seriously, a lot of those points are just plain wrong, or extreme hyperbole.

Did leveling to 60 take time? Yes. Did it take "weeks"? No. In fact dedicated players could just sit there and grind it out in certain spots.

2-button rotations? Apparently you have never heard of things like debuff management in raids, switching weapons for max mana, downranking spells, 5-second mana regen window, and so on.

Dungeons much harder? Dungeons were a joke. People sucked. People that didn't suck absolutely destroyed them. Look it up. 2-man Scholomance, which was considered arguably the hardest dungeon at the time. 3-man UBRS, which was a 10-man raid back in that day. Molten Core clear with all green gear. Just LOOK at what the bosses were doing back then! I.e. nothing. They had like 2 abilities, basically no phases, and laughably simple strategies.

[Yizu]

boring class mechanics with cookie cutter talent tree

[garicasha]

I'm gonna write up a more in-depth response later, but for the moment I have to seriously argue against dungeons being easy. Or perhaps it would be better to clarify that

"Doing dungeons for the first time was much more challenging"

Examples:
--Multiple gates in Stratholme that slam shut with no in-game warning (worms, abominations)
--Invisble stealthed patrolling rogues with extremely high damage in UBRS before the Beast
--The orcs with the huge charge range & 30-yard knockback right above the Rookery. There was no indication that they were capable of doing that, and almost no other mob in the game could do that.
--Opening the painting in BRD could cause a boss and adds to spawn behind you
--A few bosses with melee damage significantly higher than other bosses in the dungeon, such as Rattlegore and General Drakkisath
--Various mechanics that wouldn't be clear to new players (That doing the Ring of Law event neutralizes the dwarves in BRD, the banshee in Strath doing the Mind Control, and the correct way of beating it was to DPS down your teammate to 50%)
--Clustered mobs with rapidly moving patrols between them. There has never been another dungeon in the game where it was less clear what mobs you were gonna aggro when you entered the Undead Stratholme main courtyard.

And there were probably way more in Dire Maul and the leveling dungeons that I'm forgetting.

Now obviously vanilla dungeons weren't hard in the sense that Lower Kara Level 30 in-time is hard (gratz to that team, which included one guy from Method). But learning these dungeons would absolutely wipe groups multiple times.

If you took 5 players that started in Legion and got good enough to complete mythic raids, then dropped them in to vanilla...every single one of those things above would wipe them the first time. There was literally no way to know they were coming.

[cparle87]

Did I say they could?

No, but the OP listed "meeting stones that didn't summon" in his list.

[Flarelaine]

I will give you the biggest things people seemed to whine about back then.

Having to pay for and go train abilities. Not being able to go from a sword to a hammer without re-lvling it up to the same skill level. Not even being able to use that hammer until you visit the specific capital city when you hit the right level and find the weapon master so that you can train it for equipping.

Having to travel into hostile areas that are easy to die in across continents in order to get specific class skills.

Really? People were up in arms about these? I never heard. And I actually liked having to work for skills. (Not saying I enjoyed it, but it seemed right.)

[garicasha]

No, but the OP listed "meeting stones that didn't summon" in his list.

I actually edited the "that couldn't summon" in to the OP.

[Deficineiron]

What would cause a person that started playing in Legion to stop playing classic?
--How long it takes to kill mobs and level
--No mounts until 40 / travel time in general
--Transcontinental Questing / 20 quest limit
--Bag space
--Weapon skills (and needing to travel to the weapon master to unlock it)
--Two-button raid rotation
--No (in-game) LFG
--Dungeons being so much harder (Edit: see post #45)
--Meeting stones that don't summon
--Needing a group to do areas like Stonewatch Keep, Stromgarde Keep, and Jintha'Alor
--No in-game quest helper
--Paying for every talent respec
--The deflated economy & not being able to afford abilities or mounts
--Getting to 60 and realizing no one wants their favorite spec
--Their faction not having some Shaman/Paladin/Priest racial ability
--Epics taking months to get
--Kicking people from a group doesn't port them out of the instance (edit: raids only if they're saved to the raid ID.)
--Farming requirements for raiding
--Write-in

Edit: This was supposed to be a poll but I hit the back button on my browser...don't do that.

A lot of decent items on the list. Have you stopped to think about how blizzard might view such a list, if they agree?

in other words, you see a list of things that might cause a current retailer to quit. Blizzard may see a list of things they need to look at to try to make it less likely a current sub quits without totally honking off the vocal classic minority.

What I see is a list of things I would expect blizz to look at how to change. Since they are using the current engine, maybe they can blame that for some of these.

add in 'many less flight points and graveyards,' 'old pvp/pve server system (they can definitely change this one and blame new code), longer time-to-complete for dungeons, much longer time-to-level, queue-bg's only at battlemaster (1.12), dual-spec not present (you noted respec costs of course), no 'tourist-mode' raid difficulty to 'see the content,' 'old loot system/no progressive loot token system as a parallel system'

- - - Updated - - -

He's not a troll... it was supposed to be a poll but he messed up.

Btw, what he was talking about with "Getting to 60 and realizing no one wants their favorite spec" is that in vanilla WoW, a huge amount of classes had only 1 spec that was good enough to raid with.

blizzard already gave away that they want to change this. has everyone forgotten 'does class balance feel classic?'

[Sturmbringe]

You forgot the most important reason: PVP

Retailers can't handle PvP and they won't be able to withstand getting ganked and farmed for HP's, since the game they play takes place in a completely sterilized world that has been nerfed to the ground so as to eliminate anything that could potentially kill their toons or pose any challenge.







Every time a Retailer dies it becomes a world sensation and ppl at Blizzard start to blindly nerf content left and right. Imagine the outrage that's gonna happen at the Official forums when the Retailer snowflakes get their toons ravaged again and again and again and again and again.

[Enrif]

What would cause a person that started playing in Legion to stop playing classic?

New content. Plain and simple. Classic has no new things. it has no further progression. No new dungeons/raids/zones/items. No new skills/talents. No new quests.

Regular WoW will always have new things to do and to see. Classic will only have the same stuff that will not change.

- - - Updated - - -

You forgot the most important reason: PVP

Retailers can't handle PvP and they won't be able to withstand getting ganked and farmed for HP's, since the game they play takes place in a completely sterilized world that has been nerfed to the ground so as to eliminate anything that could potentially kill their toons or pose any challenge.







Every time a Retailer dies it becomes a world sensation and ppl at Blizzard start to blindly nerf content left and right. Imagine the outrage that's gonna happen at the Official forums when the Retailer snowflakes get their toons ravaged again and again and again and again and again.

you know that most players will not roll on a PvP server? Even some known streamers already said they will not roll on a PvP Server

[Deficineiron]

Every time a Retailer dies it becomes a world sensation and ppl at Blizzard start to blindly nerf content left and right. Imagine the outrage that's gonna happen at the Official forums when the Retailer snowflakes get their toons ravaged again and again and again and again and again.

I address this above your post - I think blizzard knows this, they are clearly hostile toward unrestricted world pvp, and the new pv? server setup gives them the 'because' excuse to just say classic is same pv? server system as retail is, because the new archtecture doesn't have the old code in it (remember eyes of the beast?). There are a number of things they can blame on the new engine that they may change.

[Sturmbringe]

you know that most players will not roll on a PvP server? Even some known streamers already said they will not roll on a PvP Server

No, I didn't but that's good news. Don't want to play with Pokemon enthusiasts and Kung Fu Panda fanboys.

- - - Updated - - -

I address this above your post - I think blizzard knows this, they are clearly hostile toward unrestricted world pvp, and the new pv? server setup gives them the 'because' excuse to just say classic is same pv? server system as retail is, because the new archtecture doesn't have the old code in it (remember eyes of the beast?). There are a number of things they can blame on the new engine that they may change.

I disagree with your line of thinking.

Shortly, Blizzard made Classic possible to lure US back to the fold, i.e. the Nostalrius Community and other server Communities like ours.

If Blizzard go ahead and make various changes to Classic to accomodate the various whiners on these forums (Loladin freaks, Dudu freaks & w/e else) we will simply not play it and keep playing Nostalrius clones.

WHat we learned at Private Servers after all these years, is that the most Blizzlike servers always win in popularity, so Blizzard nerfing Classic to make it less-than-Vanilla will cause their servers to be avoided by us, their very target group.

[Deficineiron]

I disagree with your line of thinking.

Shortly, Blizzard made Classic reality to lure US back to the fold, i.e. the Nostalrius Community and other server Communities like ours.

If Blizzard go ahead and make various changes to Classic to accomodate the various whiners on these forums (Loladin freaks, Dudu freaks & w/e else) we will simply not play it and keep playing Nostalrius clones.

WHat we learned at Private Servers after all these years, is that the most Blizzlike servers always win in popularity, so Blizzard nerfing Classic to make it less-than-Vanilla will cause their servers to be avoided by us, their very target group.

I think blizz probably views it much differently.

Their target group will be former players in general from wotlk-earlier - this includes folks who started in bc and wotlk as well as classic.

I think they look at the private server community as the useful idiots (historical term, not a disparagement) to get buzz out, but they are going to do everything possible to make a more accessible game for a much larger target market.

That is just my opinion.

[Biomega]

You forgot the most important reason: PVP

Retailers can't handle PvP and they won't be able to withstand getting ganked and farmed for HP's, since the game they play takes place in a completely sterilized world that has been nerfed to the ground so as to eliminate anything that could potentially kill their toons or pose any challenge

I'm not sure how it was in your alternate reality, but when I played Vanilla, getting farmed for HPs was anything but fun. Because why would it be. People somehow squeeze their memories through nostalgia-sized holes in their brains and it comes out all shiny and awesome, but what made for good PvP back then still makes for good PvP now - and what makes for bad PvP now still made for bad PvP then.

How people think it was somehow a magical experience to have your quest giver camped or be one-shot-blasted by a Rogue on /lol over and over again is beyond me.

But they're right in one thing: there was more "organized" world PvP going on, like the whole TM vs. SS thing. No big surprise, considering the glaring dearth of (PvP) content in those days. OF COURSE you try and find some action somewhere when you're not getting served any from Blizzard. That doesn't make it GOOD action - just the only one you've got.

[Deathquoi]

2 Button rotation?!?!??!?!! i call bs. Most specs actually just spammed one button for the whole raid boss fight. Must have been fun.

As a frost Mage, I can confirm, I would have loved to have a second button to press.

[anon5123]

since haste didn't exist in vanilla.

Yes it did, it just wasn't a normal stat on gear.

There were plenty of items with "Increases attack speed by xx%", "Increases casting speed by xx%" as on-use or on-hit effects.

[Avengedx]

Really? People were up in arms about these? I never heard. And I actually liked having to work for skills. (Not saying I enjoyed it, but it seemed right.)

Up in arms about things didn't exist in vanilla or most MMO communities back then for every little thing because the means of communications for most people still sucked. I feel like more people were still using their own guild forums then the main game ones. It was literally just people complaining about having to go back to a town, or not having enough silver to train something, or whatever. The only thing people got super upset about was like spawn timers for onyxia attunement, massive whine on class nerfs / buffs, and people were pretty upset about adding instanced pvp to the game as well. I liked highlighting some of the smaller things that people complained about because I think people who started in legion will be shell shocked over them. What we consider QoL now was considered wussy mode back then. Wow was branded EQ-Lite when it launched because people thought it was just a watered down easier version of EQ.

For a lot of people that came to wow collectively from another game the quality of life was off the charts. Soloable content was for twinks or kiting classes in EQ, the death system was the most forgiving of pretty much any mmo as well. Having a functioning positional map felt great =P

[Skorpionss]

Bag space and buffing each member of a 40 man raid individually with a 10 minute blessing are the only ones I have a problem with and frankly I hope they change eventually (by increasing stack size coz 5 potions per stack is stupid, same for 10 ores per stack and whatever other ridiculous stack sizes there were, and increasing buff duration/making them AOE)

it won't stop me from playing but it will suck if that remains as it was...

[anon5123]

A lot of decent items on the list. Have you stopped to think about how blizzard might view such a list, if they agree?

in other words, you see a list of things that might cause a current retailer to quit. Blizzard may see a list of things they need to look at to try to make it less likely a current sub quits without totally honking off the vocal classic minority.

What I see is a list of things I would expect blizz to look at how to change. Since they are using the current engine, maybe they can blame that for some of these.

Have you stopped to go back and read months-old interviews where they specifically say that the Vanilla experience is not for everyone?

No, they're not going to nerf Vanilla to make it more appealing to "retailers". Retail and vanilla are two completely different games. You're essentially asking that vanilla be made more chocolatey to appeal to chocolate fans.....what? no that's retarded

[RobertMugabe]

What would cause a person that started playing in Legion to stop playing classic?
--How long it takes to kill mobs and level
--No mounts until 40 / travel time in general
--Transcontinental Questing / 20 quest limit
--Bag space
--Weapon skills (and needing to travel to the weapon master to unlock it)
--Two-button raid rotation
--No (in-game) LFG
--Dungeons being so much harder (Edit: see post #45)
--Meeting stones that don't summon
--Needing a group to do areas like Stonewatch Keep, Stromgarde Keep, and Jintha'Alor
--No in-game quest helper
--Paying for every talent respec
--The deflated economy & not being able to afford abilities or mounts
--Getting to 60 and realizing no one wants their favorite spec
--Their faction not having some Shaman/Paladin/Priest racial ability
--Epics taking months to get
--Kicking people from a group doesn't port them out of the instance (edit: raids only if they're saved to the raid ID.)
--Farming requirements for raiding
--Write-in

Edit: This was supposed to be a poll but I hit the back button on my browser...don't do that.

Vanilla did have an ingame LFG. That's what the Meeting Stones are for... they don't work on (most) private Servers however.