#1 reason a Legion player would quit classic?

[Xalvia]

most ppl will quit after they experience their first 4 hour detahmines shitshow fiasco


good old times

[Tekkommo]

I'm gonna write up a more in-depth response later, but for the moment I have to seriously argue against dungeons being easy. Or perhaps it would be better to clarify that

"Doing dungeons for the first time was much more challenging"

Examples:
--Multiple gates in Stratholme that slam shut with no in-game warning (worms, abominations)
--Invisble stealthed patrolling rogues with extremely high damage in UBRS before the Beast
--The orcs with the huge charge range & 30-yard knockback right above the Rookery. There was no indication that they were capable of doing that, and almost no other mob in the game could do that.
--Opening the painting in BRD could cause a boss and adds to spawn behind you
--A few bosses with melee damage significantly higher than other bosses in the dungeon, such as Rattlegore and General Drakkisath
--Various mechanics that wouldn't be clear to new players (That doing the Ring of Law event neutralizes the dwarves in BRD, the banshee in Strath doing the Mind Control, and the correct way of beating it was to DPS down your teammate to 50%)
--Clustered mobs with rapidly moving patrols between them. There has never been another dungeon in the game where it was less clear what mobs you were gonna aggro when you entered the Undead Stratholme main courtyard.

And there were probably way more in Dire Maul and the leveling dungeons that I'm forgetting.

Now obviously vanilla dungeons weren't hard in the sense that Lower Kara Level 30 in-time is hard (gratz to that team, which included one guy from Method). But learning these dungeons would absolutely wipe groups multiple times.

If you took 5 players that started in Legion and got good enough to complete mythic raids, then dropped them in to vanilla...every single one of those things above would wipe them the first time. There was literally no way to know they were coming.

M+ dungeons are harder.

Vanilla dungeons are simple.

A patrol you don't know about isn't hard, wiping once to it doesn't make it hard. You learn it.

First time doing a challenging M+ where the timer is going to be tight you probably won't make it until you learn the best route.

When playing on a private server, and yes the most popular one is the same challenge as it was back then, I was very disappointed in how easy they were. Sure I remember them being harder back in the day, but once you do them again, you'll realise how simple they are. For many reasons, the main one being, it's not my first time playing a MMO of this style.

Trash is harder than the bosses in vanilla 5 mans (from a healer perspective), bosses are stupidly easy.

Sure, normal mode and heroic dungeons today are easier than vanilla 5 mans. But that aint saying much.

One thing that would make Legion players quit over 5 mans, is the time it takes. Unless you are well geared, the 5 mans will take a while, with many breaks waiting for mana.

[Sturmbringe]

The vanilla crowd will be enough to scare most people away.

Tbh, I think people are bound to be more scared by someone who has got 7062 posts in MMO Champion (or 10k or 20k or 30k like many nolifers do) rather than the Nostalrius community.

[Stardrift]

Because of an entitlement complex.

Or.. It's just that vanilla aged fucking horribly lol

[Deletedaccount1]

You and 2000 other players. Loud minority is key here. The vast majority of WoW players these days are way to casual to play Vanilla, it's the simple truth.

Over half a million people played on a particular vanilla private server a few years ago. If BfA goes the way of WoD, that number might not be too far off from the people playing retail.

[GreenJesus]

leveling to 60 taking ages.

- - - Updated - - -



rogues had 3 +cooldowns :P

hell if you count feinting cos of threat issues then 4

I watched that Ragnaros world first video... He basically has a 4-5 second global cool down and spams sinister strike and occasionally presses feint.

[shaunika123]

I watched that Ragnaros world first video... He basically has a 4-5 second global cool down and spams sinister strike and occasionally presses feint.

it went like this
-> use sinister strike till 5 combo points
->maintain slice and dice
-> use eviscerate when at 5 combo points and slice and dice is at 10+ seconds left

use feint if needed.


also 4-5 second global cooldown? what?

[GreenJesus]

it went like this
-> use sinister strike till 5 combo points
->maintain slice and dice
-> use eviscerate when at 5 combo points and slice and dice is at 10+ seconds left

use feint if needed.


also 4-5 second global cooldown? what?

His energy regenerated so slow that it was basically 4-5 second GCD.

[shaunika123]

His energy regenerated so slow that it was basically 4-5 second GCD.

okay? sure, the game was a lot slower back then

everyone was also using 3 second casts etc.

the point is you actively used 3-4 buttons in your rotation as a rogue.

I'M not saying that somehow made rogues super hard or anything, it was just a jokey response to the whole "everyone's 1 button" thing

sinister strike cost 40 energy, so basically every 4 seconds you could cast one
evis cost 35 and slice and dice cost 25 but they both refunded 25 energy on use.

adrush also doubled your energy regen

so you probably averaged something like 1 action every ~3-3.5 seconds.

[Healasouhait]

There's this amazing new invention called the Internet. You can look up all sorts of things like videos, game guides, and player experiences. You'd be surprised about the things a person can educate themselves on with the right looking. Sure, it's not a direct personal experience. And I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I've seen, heard, and read enough to be able to fill in the blanks with some degree of accuracy.

There's a difference between having fun while I work for my shit, which I am perfectly fine doing (loved the Mage Tower and hope they do another,) and mind-numbing, agonizing boredom while I work for my shit (running around a zone for hours and hours over multiple days/weeks at a time killing respawns for the 3-7 rep they give with no other alternatives, for example. Got a sample of that grind style in Pandaria with Emperor Shaohao. Needless to say, it was torture.) And, contrary to what you claim, late BC DID in fact have a lot of things from Classic in it. I leveled up all my weapon skills, my first mount wasn't until after level 50 and I carried around plenty of arrows and a variety of pet food all through the end of Lich King. And those are just the ones off the top of my head. The game didn't really drop a lot of the old stuff until Cataclysm.

Some can, not all. Which is why it's a smaller drop in players. The numbers might be a little off, but it's still a relevant point.

Sugarcube, I'll talk about whatever the fuck I want. ^_^ Have a nice day. I'm going to bed.

The main problem I had with your post was your lack of actual real experience of the game. Just like you said reading and watching stuff on the Internet does not replace the gaming experience and your degree of accuracy is thin (at best).

About TBC, that's why I said it was more "tedious" than Vanilla. In addition of Classic features, TBC increased the level of farming for reputations (who did actually count), professions, money (for the flying mount). Hence changing the gameplay (not that much I give it to you but still).

Some can, not all. Which is why it's a smaller drop in players. The numbers might be a little off, but it's still a relevant point.

No it's not. Vanilla had a lot of casual adults players who did just fine, even in raids. Please, if you really think that ALL players were farming like crazy comps for raids or reputations, you're more than wrong. People grinding the furbolg reputation chose to do so because they wanted to, because that's what a RPG is all about. Improving your character can (and must, in my opinion) take time. Time people are willing to spend and not necessary by playing 8h per day.

It really looks like we both have complete different reasons to play WoW. And that's totally fine, just like it's totally fine to have your opinion. But basing all of this on readings and videos does not make it solid.

Have a nice day mate.

[garicasha]

The farming requirements for raiding at the start of Legion were arguably worse. You needed 50-100k gold worth of consumables per night (per player) while raiding, more if you were a top end progressing guild putting in more hours. Artifact power was core to player power because early on you needed a serious amount of farming just to unlock all your main major traits (which were spec defining for many specs), and due to all gearing being random and the need for legendaries you had to constantly be working towards something to get your character raid ready, you lived in Mythic + if you weren't farming Starlight Rose.

Not only that but due to various Legendary related bugs players were maintaining multiple classes to account for the Legendary situation, along with blizzard deciding to kill or seriously nerf a spec that may have formed the basis of a raid group. For example guilds running two Arms Warriors dropping down to one, or guilds running Outlaw Rogues, players in high end guilds had a backup plan for that.

Maybe this only really affects the top 500 or so raiding guilds to any considerable degree rather than the playerbase as a whole, but Legion at launch was arguably more grindy than Vanilla, new players coming into that while playing in a raid environment would have had it pretty tough.

Going for server first maybe. Getting Cutting Edge: Xavius was not that hard and casually doing a few mythics a week was more than enough to get it in the months and months it was available.

Getting Kil'Jaeden in the rather silly amount of time they allotted for Tomb was much more challenging. I still don't know why they didn't push back Antorus a month, a lot of pretty decent guilds would have been able to get it then.

[anon5123]

Can I get links for a few of these? When I was writing the reminders mega thread I actually tried to find a few but couldn't remember any items except quivers.

http://classicdb.ch/?item=9449

http://classicdb.ch/?item=22954

http://classicdb.ch/?item=10626

There weren't many, but "increases attack speed by xx%" definitely was a thing in Vanilla.

[De Lupe]

Have a nice day mate.

Eh, like I said, I'm not an expert. I could get it exactly right or be completely wrong and nothing of value would be gained or lost. It's just fun speculation extrapolated from the expectations of the current player base vs what Classic will offer.

If I'm right, oh well. No biggie.
If I'm wrong, it's equally no biggie.

^_^

[Veyne]

2 Button rotation?!?!??!?!! i call bs. Most specs actually just spammed one button for the whole raid boss fight. Must have been fun.

Shadow Bolt. Shadow Bolt. Shadow Bolt. Shadow Bolt...Shadow Bolt......Shadowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww oh shit sorry I fell asleep on my keyboard

[Sastank]

Running out of things to do is going to be the biggest drawback lol. Hype 100% dead in under a year and then Classic people will A) Demand BC B) Go back to retail

[Ickz]

Itt: The usual people actually thinking vanilla was harder when, mechanically, it was not. Clunky design decisions, balance issues, not having an abundance of readily available information via videos/guides, overall longer length of time required doing anything, etc was what made it "harder".

[irondeleter]

Running out of things to do is going to be the biggest drawback lol. Hype 100% dead in under a year

I agree that most of the hype will be dead in under a year, but the game won't be. Blizzard is going to stagnate the releases of raids and that will keep the game very much alive.

[Sastank]

I agree that most of the hype will be dead in under a year, but the game won't be. Blizzard is going to stagnate the releases of raids and that will keep the game very much alive.

Uhm making people wait long for raids with nothing else to do isn't going to keep people on the game much. Grinds only last so long. No M+ or raid difficulties, no "fun" stuff like pets or mounts to farm for. There's very little to do while waiting for raids, so people are just going to quit it. FOTM people coming back for a week or two to clear a raid isnt doing much for it lol

[Lessadria]

It's certainly gonna be interesting seeing how people react to WoW classic, it'll be a different WoW experience to what we have today, but also different to how it was back in the day.

There were fewer WoW related resources available back then, Alakazam and Thottbot were about it and they were mainly item and mob databases, boss guides weren't really a thing yet, the youtube scene was very small; it was only a few initial machinima makers and warrior PvP videos.

Because there were very few boss guides around, alot of people were forced to make their own strats which slowed progression. Not mention people just weren't as good at the game as they are now. WoW was new, SOME people may have had experience from DAoC or Everquest, but the vast majority of people were fresh to the genre and just loved Warcraft and took the next step to WoW. The WoW population has access to alot more resources today than it did to back then.

For the OP, in regards to what Legion players will miss: I think it'll be the smaller things that we take for granted. Sure alot of these things can and probably will be fixed with mods and addons, but the fact that you'll have to use the 3rd party programs may be suprising at first.

Stuff like:
- No dungeon maps in game (old addons like Cartographer fixed that).
- 0 quest markers (another addons, Questhelper can fix this).
- Heaps less flight paths. i think late wrath doubled the amount of flight paths and cata did it again with the old world revamp.
- Heaps more kill and loot quests with the mobs not having a decent drop rate on the item in question (the infamous boar liver quest in Westfall. Most of those boars were born without livers apparently).
- Most zones only having 1, occasionally 2 graveyards.
- Having to queue up for PvP at battlemasters in the capital cities or at the BGs themselves (Arathi Highlands, Ashenvale and Alterac Mountains).

That's just a few off the top of my head, I've ignored all the obvious ones such as LFR, and group finder. I'm sure there are other smaller QoL improvements which we will be missing out on.

But yeah, I think that it'll be a bit of a culture shock for people.

[FelPlague]

That one isn't actually true. I love vanilla but the dungeons were piss easy. Retail dungeons can scale up infinitely in difficult until they become impossible, no dungeon in the last 14 years have ever had the option to be that hard.

Sure you can run them on the easiest difficulty but that's like running RFC at lvl60 and complaining that it's too easy.

^^^^^^^^^^
There is a difference between difficulty as in how hard something is
compared to one person making a very minor fuck up of missing a cc or dpsing something too much that causes a wipe then a complete re clear cause the dungeon would respawn mobs.

It was difficult like a bomb diffusion in Vanilla
while current wow is difficult like combat.