So Sylvanas must be pretty displeased with Saurfang (spoilers)

[seleri]

This is all post battle for Undercity. This is after it becomes common knowledge that Sylvanas killed and then raised their bother and sisters of the Horde to use a cannon fodder against the Alliance. This is after those same leaders and soldiers talk about how Saurfang refused to dishonor himself by following Sylvanas's orders. It should be pointed out that Sylvanas has ALWAYS been highly distrusted by the Kalimdor side of the Horde. If anything Saurfang is likely to be even more of a revered hero among the Kalimdor side of the Horde now then before.

This. ^

Like I said earlier in the thread, the only way this works out for Sylvanas is if the Alliance kill Saurfang to get him out of her way and give the honorable part of the Horde a martyr at the same time. Personally, I can't wait for him to come back and challenge her/lop her head off so the Horde can maybe get close to what Thrall had in mind for it.

Of course... there's also the events of "A Good War" and their impact on the storyline. It would be -hilarious- to me if it turns out the Saurfang was crushed in the inn, and the Saurfang we've seen since then is an imposter.

What's actually hilarious that you believe this could happen and seem to want writing this bad to happen. Please elaborate on why someone impersonating Saurfang wouldn't kill Malfurion. If your answer is "Alliance in disguise", please elaborate why they would keep them in the Stockade? If your answer to that is "to fool the Horde that break in", please tell how the Alliance knew the Horde were going to break in so that the Alliance could fool them and why bother risking the impostor's life for that? It wouldn't be out of the question to put Saurfang, a venerated war hero and leader of the Horde, somewhere more secure than where they throw corrupt nobles and Defias, so the Horde probably wouldn't think it odd he wasn't in there.

Edit: Before you say "they put Talanji and Zul there", Saurfang is a little more important than two trolls from a doomed faction we've been whooping for years now.

[Syegfryed]

I dunno about -that-. Rokhan, Thalyssra, Talanji, and the PC all watched him refuse to return to the Horde, and instead decide to go talk to Anduin. They watched the guards take him to the High King of the Alliance. And he's the High Overlord of the Horde Military.

Wouldn't be hard to paint his actions in the prison as a betrayal.

he refuse to return to her horde, this version of him going to talk to anduin with the guards was changed

And the kalindor horde, even the blood elves would stand by his side, unless she plot another lie to distort things again

[oathy]

Gotta love Sylvanas fanbois trying to justify murdering civilians yet again. These people have literally 0 grasp on morality.

Love the Character but said many times the direction Ion has taken her is going to backfire.
totally get it after facing a world ending threat they could hardly bring in another one.
bit like Moonraker, followed by for your eyes only.

the weak story line no matter what cinematic they are holding back.
right from when you start leveling she holds protecting the forsaken area her priority
Brill is destroyed so is the UC.. for some Crappy azertite, that's supposed to make amazing
new machines that gets destroyed in seconds mostly by the Boy king.

If there was any way I could just skip the entire scenarios and just level in the new zones I would.
the "story" around BFA just isnt of the standard the team have been creating, And its the only topic
that actually gets trade talking when someone mentions something about it

[Evilfish]

he refuse to return to her horde, this version of him going to talk to anduin with the guards was changed

And the kalindor horde, even the blood elves would stand by his side, unless she plot another lie to distort things again

That sounds so ... MOP.

We doing this again?

[Bigby]

She saw them as a threat to the whole. Why should she let something stick around that could become another Varimathras and Putress fiasco?

"Hey so, um, we think there's more to this un-life than just serving you."

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

[Raetary]

I dunno about -that-. Rokhan, Thalyssra, Talanji, and the PC all watched him refuse to return to the Horde, and instead decide to go talk to Anduin. They watched the guards take him to the High King of the Alliance. And he's the High Overlord of the Horde Military.

Wouldn't be hard to paint his actions in the prison as a betrayal.

he doesn't talk go to anduin anymore, they removed that.

now he just straight up refuses to get rescued and willingly sits in that cell.

[Syegfryed]

That sounds so ... MOP.

We doing this again?

when they put her in that position it should be a hint of the same bullshit again, people should not be surprised

if they are removing her finally, i don't mind another mop

[Mehrunes]

You're not role playing eh? So, you are saying murder for people who don't want to be your blind slaves and want to be with their family is NOT wrong? As in... are you defending murder of civilians as acceptable?

Yeah, because there wasn't the whole "high officials of a nation performing treason and trying to defect to the enemy faction with a usurper mixed in into the situation" thing going on. Somehow paragons of honesty like you keep forgetting that part and keep trying to boggle it down to just family. I wonder why :3

[Friendlyimmolation]

Gotta love Sylvanas fanbois trying to justify murdering civilians yet again. These people have literally 0 grasp on morality.

your continued willing refusal to be educated on the topic or accept logic is not other people's problem. No amount of grasping at the "you're not moral like I am" straw will change that.

[xpose]

Crappy story telling as the similarities in this storyline compared to MoP and vol'jin are obvious. This is all leading to a saurfang coup to bring honor back to the horde.

[naeblis495]

I'm pretty sure Saurfang despises Sylvanas, but doesn't do anything because he respects the title of Warchief more. BUT, he did say as soon as she fucks up, he's going to kill her. We'll just have to wait and see, but I have my fingers crossed that Sylvanas finally get's killed for good in BFA. She is a disgrace to the title of Warchief.

he said the same to garrosh and we all saw what happened : Saurfang did jack shit until it was too late

[Mehrunes]

Hmmm, who would they choose to follow

Renowned orc hero who they've known their entire lives

Or

Crazy undead lich queen who plagues everything she sets foot on and raises their former comrades as undead monstrosities

Just cuz she's warchief doesn't mean they'll follow her no matter what she does. Garrosh proved that.

Garrosh proved that being a racist dirtbag that alienates his allies isn't popular with the Orcs of today. Something Sylvanas has yet to do. Saurfang on the other hand shat on the most fundamental Horde values by choosing to stay in an Alliance prison. Why would any Orc choose to follow him after that?

Of course it's him. Saurfang saw what happened when you let a tyrant Warchief go unchallenged, you get Garrosh. He's learnt that lesson, he's not going to bow his head until it's too late this time, not only am I confident Sylvanas will die at some point in the future, I have a feeling it will be Saurfang doing it. He embodies the best of the Horde, what it should be - he's the one who should bear the mantle of Warchief.

Best of the Horde is sulking in an Alliance prison?

A good point, he's willing to send an army in from behind to rip apart the Alliance's army, but he cries when he has the chance to kill one of the Alliance's greatest assets. Plot induced stupidity aside it feels like someone new is incharge of Saurfang's character, or just never actually bothered to read about Saurfang.

Why would it need to be someone new? It's not like Blizzard's writers, even at the top, ever shied from laziness-induced amnesia to the point they couldn't remember which character is alive (Metzen), massive retcons (all of them, but biggest example being Metzen and Eredar retcon), inconsistency between various members of the team (Afrasiabi vs rest of the team about Garrosh) and abandoning any story cohesion for muh rule of cool (all of them). The fish of Blizzard storytelling is completely rotten from the head.

[Steampunkette]

"Hey so, um, we think there's more to this un-life than just serving you."

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

"Hey, so, um, we think there's more to this un-life than just serving you."

"Oh... riiiight. Cool. Coo coo coo coo cooooool..." *Immediately starts plotting to break up the Desolate Council because they might depose her*

*1/4 or more of the Desolate Council actively starts defecting to the Alliance under the calls for rebellion of Calia Menethil*

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Lil' different than you're presenting it.

[Mehrunes]

And as I've said countless times, how much tactical information would a civilian have? And even then, how could Sylvanas know they would divulge any. It's really simple, she murdered those people because they didn't want to belong to her anymore.

Feigning ignorance again is not exactly a good way out of being called on feigning ignorance. They weren't some random civilians. They were rulers of Undercity in Sylvanas' absence. And how could Sylvanas know they would divulge any? Yeah, sure, people defecting to the enemy faction right in front of your eyes surely deserve your trust.

Right, which is why all those orcs in the internment camps took their own lives... Wait.

Deliberately ignore lethargy of the Orcs some more.

there is not much difference regardless proportions, you are just choosing to see some variables when ignoring another in the cases

You jumped on @Yzak's point by comparing a situation where the Forsaken that stayed in the Horde rose up against Putress and Desolate Council members defecting to the enemy faction and acting against the Forsaken (and the Horde as a whole) in the process in the first place. You're not exactly one to accuse them of any inconsistencies when you utterly forced this comparison to begin with.

Of couse. Freedom of thought is an incovenience that makes groups weak. They should just be good puppets and be grateful to do the Queen's bidding. Why would peace and being with their loved ones be beneficial to their continued existance? xD

Freedom of thought does not equal freedom of consequence for high treason. Alas, you brilliant Alliance geniuses of MMO-C will continue pretending that is the case till hell freezes over.

[Aeula]

I'd love for Saurfang to be executed. Sadly he just ends up in an Alliance prison whimpering like a kicked hound.

[therealbowser]

Saurfang has the opportunity to kill Malfurion, but refuses because he wounded him with a dishonorable attack. He gets imprisoned in the Stormwind Stockade, and when Rokhan and Thalyssra are on their way to free Zul and some other chap they also free Saurfang. Except he'd rather stay in jail than rejoin Sylvanas.

Sylvanas must be pretty displeased. She's captured and tortured Koltira Deathweaver for less. Will she punish him? And if she does, how would the Horde feel about Sylvanas executing one of their most beloved heroes?

Sylvanas flat out insults his honor, his son, his very being and tells him to die in the most spiteful way she can, simply because he believes in honor.

I think the feeling is mutual, and I don't think Saurfang not choosing to return to Sylvanas displeased her in any way.

[Raetary]

Best of the Horde is sulking in an Alliance prison?

of course!


haven't you seen how gracefully he sits on his prison bench?
how magnificent his speech was about how he stopped counting the days he sat in there because he can't count to 3?
his extraordinary expressions when he knelt broken before anduin and his fluid movements when he was moved off the battlefield by anduins soldiers?


such grace and beauty, such elegance and honor.
he is truly worthy of the title of warchief.

[Mehrunes]

Gotta love Sylvanas fanbois trying to justify murdering civilians yet again. These people have literally 0 grasp on morality.

Gotta love people that are eternally triggered by people daring to question their infinite brilliance about Sylvanas resorting to pointless flailing around because they ran out of arguments halfway through their first post. You know, like you in your completely honest and totally not deliberate ignorance of the fact that Desolate Council members were highest ranking officials in Forsaken capital during Sylvanas' absence and due to that position them defecting would have constituted high treason.

"Hey so, um, we think there's more to this un-life than just serving you."

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Gratz on deliberately omitting the "so we're going to betray you and defect to the enemy faction while asking a pretender to your throne for help, creating an intel leak risk in the process due to us being Undercity's leaders in your absence" part in the middle.

[Magnagarde]

You know, like you in your completely honest and totally not deliberate ignorance of the fact that Desolate Council members were highest ranking officials in Forsaken capital during Sylvanas' absence and due to that position them defecting would have constituted high treason.

Because Jem, Jack and Jake Felstone totally ran the Forsaken society and attempted to stage a coup d'etat by wanting a future with their mother.

Most of the Forsaken in the fields of Arathi had nothing to do with governing Forsaken society. They were ordinary undead that fulfilled everyday roles in Undercity.

[Mehrunes]

of course!

haven't you seen how gracefully he sits on his prison bench?
how magnificent his speech was about how he stopped counting the days he sat in there because he can't count to 3?
his extraordinary expressions when he knelt broken before anduin and his fluid movements when he was moved off the battlefield by anduins soldiers?

such grace and beauty, such elegance and honor.
he is truly worthy of the title of warchief.

Well, those are obviously convincing arguments, especially the bench one because Saurfang's posture on it is nearly divine, but the honor of the best of the Horde still goes to Baine. The magnificent way in which he gave Anduin is horn in a letter after his Warchief already ordered him to cease communication with the enemy leader (just so Anduin can peg him with it the next time they meet) surely puts him ahead of Saurfang.