Do you prefer simple or complex rotations?

[MrLachyG]

can i answer somewhere in the middle. like a bit complex but not overly so?

[Jademist]

The thing is that simple rotations become boring after a while for a lot of people (myself included). I have abandoned specs in the past because they were too simple and I couldn't stand playing them anymore.

This exactly. Complexity is sometimes more fun than just plain boring simplicity. I like being engaged, not pressing the same 3 buttons to optimize my DPS or whatever I'm doing.

[Phantombeard]

If more complex = higher dps then of course I want it to be more complex.

[Sansnom]

Title - do you prefer simple or complex rotations?

Simple. I subscribe to the principle of "less is more" and "Simple to learn. Hard to master."

Complexity for the sake of complexity is a bad design philosophy in my opinion. The encounter should be difficult, not the rotation.

[Gank Sinatra]

Age has caught up with me, I lean towards easier rotations. Really enjoyed my demon hunter this expansion.

[Grusalugg]

PvE : Simpler Rotation - Very Hard Boss Mechanics and Demanding Coordination
PvP : Very Complex Rotation

[callipygoustp]

I am definitely not a fan of simple rotations. I refused to raid on my warlock during TBC cause shadow bolt spam was stupid easy/simple. While I do like more complex rotations, a complex rotation needs to have a synergy between its components in order to be enjoyable. If there is no real "flow" between the various components of a rotations, that's a big no thanks from me.

[Torto]

Simple. I find these days that if the rotation is too complex or unrewarding I'll do what I can to avoid combat when out in the open world because I can't be bothered to micro manage my spells just to kill a simple boar.

[Byleth]

I like simple rotations, with many tools for situational needs.

I am not a fan of MOBA quickfire gameplay so I actually like the GCD change.

[Arawrabearialis]

simple rotation , but i will not mind if they made raid and dungeon difficult.

This. I want a rotation I can easily learn and follow while getting my challenge from the content itself.

[Lothaeryn]

Neither. I prefer classes that have the potential to solve difficult problems with skillful play.
This is RARELY based on rotational complexity.

pretty much, I don't mind complex rotations, but ultimately i feel it undermines that particular class/spec when another class can easily perform the same amount of dps/healing with a less complex setup.

Why waste 20 seconds of buildup as a warlock when a warrior/ret paladin can dish out the same overall damage after 5? What happens when said warlock has to move/stopcast after a mechanic pops up? they have to start over most of the time, while other classes excel the entire encounter.

Should the warlock then be considered a lesser player because of the complex rotation he has to play to perform? Of course not, but some people think it means that player is less skilled, even when its a limitation of class gameplay, and not player skill.

Ultimately, complex rotations are fine, if all classes have their own complex rotation to deal with, which never really works in an MMO setting just because the way MMO paradigms work.

[SLSAMG]

This thread in a nutshell - people are naturally lazy.

Who would've thunk?

[Grumpy Old Man]

It should be easy to learn and hard to master.

I think this is the best definition.

[Haywire5714]

it just reduces the minimum-maximum damage a spec can do, it doesn't reduce the skill level at all, if i'm being targeted by a spell or adds or i have to move for any reason, it's unlikely i'll be able to cast anything if the spec lacks instants, wheres the skill? pressing less keys = more skill?

and no you cannot just save cooldowns for such random situations or you're lowering your damage, same for procs blizzard expects you to just sit on procs incase you gotta move, then you lose dps by wasting said procs.

It's not that pressing less keys = more skill, it's that optimizing your movement and planning ahead = more skill. If your class has limited abilities to use on the move then it is much more important to optimize your movement and plan ahead, because if you don't you'll be wasting globals moving around all the time. If your classes has a filler that you can use while moving (like MoP) then you can literally turn your brain off and always resort to spamming that ability while you're moving. The punishment for moving is still there since spamming a filler isn't optimal, but the punishment is much less than it would be if you had only 1 or 2 instants you could use while moving.

[SLSAMG]

It's not that pressing less keys = more skill, it's that optimizing your movement and planning ahead = more skill. If your class has limited abilities to use on the move then it is much more important to optimize your movement and plan ahead, because if you don't you'll be wasting globals moving around all the time. If your classes has a filler that you can use while moving (like MoP) then you can literally turn your brain off and always resort to spamming that ability while you're moving. The punishment for moving is still there since spamming a filler isn't optimal, but the punishment is much less than it would be if you had only 1 or 2 instants you could use while moving.

This is so true lol. Warlocks had it so easy in MoP with kil'jaeden's cunning. I remember all the warlocks in my guild that struggled to adapt after an entire expansion of coasting.

[Socialhealer]

It's not that pressing less keys = more skill, it's that optimizing your movement and planning ahead = more skill. If your class has limited abilities to use on the move then it is much more important to optimize your movement and plan ahead

As i said, and if your class literally has sod all, then you just move and do nothing? huge skill there.

[CasualFilth]

I hate rotations, I prefer a more situational playstyle, that's why I play healers and tanks.

[Haywire5714]

As i said, and if your class literally has sod all, then you just move and do nothing? huge skill there.

you're only looking at it from a "pressing buttons > not pressing buttons" point of view, which is completely missing the point (and is also just wrong because spamming fillers while moving is mindless). I will try to explain my actual point using this example, but if you still can't understand then there's nothing I can really do for you.

Shaman 1 has casting on the move lightning bolt
Shaman 2 does not have casting on the move.

Shaman 1 does 1000 dps without having to move
Shaman 1 fights a boss, where they move a total of 20 seconds during the encounter
Shaman 1 does 900 dps on this boss

Shaman 2 does 1000 dps without having to move
Shaman 2 fights a boss, where they move a total of 20 seconds during the encounter
Shaman 2 does 800 dps on this boss

-----------------------------------------------------------------

If shaman 1 optimizes their movement to 10 seconds, then they would do 950 dps (50 dps higher than 20 seconds)
If shaman 2 optimizes their movement to 10 seconds, then they would do 900 dps (100 dps higher than 20 seconds)

Shaman 2 is rewarded more if they optimize their movement and plan ahead. Shaman 1 is still rewarded for optimizing their movement, but not nearly as much as Shaman 2. This is a reduction of skill gap because worse players (who don't optimize their movement) can do more comparable dps to good players (who do optimize their movement) because they're able to mindlessly cast a filler on the move rather than being heavily punished for moving by wasting their globals.

[Socialhealer]

you're only looking at it from a "pressing buttons > not pressing buttons" point of view, which is completely missing the point (and is also just wrong because spamming fillers while moving is mindless). I will try to explain my actual point using this example, but if you still can't understand then there's nothing I can really do for you.

Shaman 1 has casting on the move lightning bolt
Shaman 2 does not have casting on the move.

Shaman 1 does 1000 dps without having to move
Shaman 1 fights a boss, where they move a total of 20 seconds during the encounter
Shaman 1 does 900 dps on this boss

Shaman 2 does 1000 dps without having to move
Shaman 2 fights a boss, where they move a total of 20 seconds during the encounter
Shaman 2 does 800 dps on this boss

-----------------------------------------------------------------

If shaman 1 optimizes their movement to 10 seconds, then they would do 950 dps (50 dps higher than 20 seconds)
If shaman 2 optimizes their movement to 10 seconds, then they would do 900 dps (100 dps higher than 20 seconds)

Shaman 2 is rewarded more if they optimize their movement and plan ahead. Shaman 1 is still rewarded for optimizing their movement, but not nearly as much as Shaman 2. This is a reduction of skill gap because worse players (who don't optimize their movement) can do more comparable dps to good players (who do optimize their movement) because they're able to mindlessly cast a filler on the move rather than being heavily punished for moving by wasting their globals.

you can't just "optimise" your movement when mechanics are often random, and elemental has no "use this whilst moving abilities"

using legion, any shocks just used malestrom = wasted so literally dump it on ES then erm....yeah keep running!

when elemental had a set bonus like BRF getting a lava surge for 12+ LS stack ES was planning movement especially with UE as another movement ability.

in MoP mindlessly spamming LB is a dps loss because the better shaman will know when they can hardcast LvB's/EB's inbetween LB casts compared to now you just cast nothing then bam hardcast LvB/LB/EB. When to use spiritwalkers grace was skill, knowing you'll have a 15 second window for ascendance when it comes off cooldown to not move and you're being targeted by abilities right now so move and cast LvB+EB with SWG instead of non stop lightning bolts.

i have rank 1 rag 25 heroic, i perfected optimised movement over 300-400 pulls, just trust me if everytime i had to move i just throw UE/shock the rotation would be a fucking joke.

[Haywire5714]

you can't just "optimise" your movement when mechanics are often random, and elemental has no "use this whilst moving abilities"

using legion, any shocks just used malestrom = wasted so literally dump it on ES then erm....yeah keep running!

when elemental had a set bonus like BRF getting a lava surge for 12+ LS stack ES was planning movement especially with UE as another movement ability.

in MoP mindlessly spamming LB is a dps loss because the better shaman will know when they can hardcast LvB's/EB's inbetween LB casts compared to now you just cast nothing then bam hardcast LvB/LB/EB. When to use spiritwalkers grace was skill, knowing you'll have a 15 second window for ascendance when it comes off cooldown to not move and you're being targeted by abilities right now so move and cast LvB+EB with SWG instead of non stop lightning bolts.

i have rank 1 rag 25 heroic, i perfected optimised movement over 300-400 pulls, just trust me if everytime i had to move i just throw UE/shock the rotation would be a fucking joke.

Mechanics aren't often random, they might target a random player but the abilities are always on a timer that you can track with your dbm to know when they're coming. There are also more things in an encounter that cause you to move and they are predictable.

- Tank moving the boss
- Non random avoidable mechanics (ragnaros world in flames?)
- Add spawns

These things can be planned out before the boss encounter so that you know where you're supposed to be and when you're supposed to be there ahead of time. If you got rank 1 on ragnaros then you should know this because that boss is a perfect example of all of these things.

Anyways none of that elemental specific shit you posted disproves anything that I said. If you don't have a filler to press while moving, then optimizing movement is more important because it's a bigger dps loss when you fuck it up. Optimizing movement is an important skill to have, so making optimal movement less important by giving every cast on the move spells is a reduction in skill gap.

Does this mean a class can't have a high skill gap with casting on the move? No
Does this mean MoP elemental had a lower skill gap then Legion elemental because it had casting on the move? No
Does this mean casting a filler on the move is optimal? No
Does giving "a class" casting on the move make optimal movement less important? Absolutely

What do you disagree with?