Levelling should be fun, not be a "wish I had money for boost"- experience

[Kookster]

Puts you in a great light. Your toxic spew is worth nothing on this forum. If you cant back your opinion with a single argument, better gtfo. Reported your post btw, there's no place for your post in a DISCUSSION thread.

I could argue with you about that topic and start a discussion, but it's not worth my time. I saw your first post, thougt about it and just sulked it up. I could quote you again to show you, who were the first toxic spewing. Thanks for the report. I wish you a good day!

better gtfo

[Gavll]

Basically there's a big split in the community which is natural for a game that's been around for 15 years.

You've got people who've been playing MMOs since before some of the current player base were born, the modern ADHD generation and everyone else in between.

You can't satisfy everyone with one blanket approach.

Perhaps it's time for heroic/mythic levelling mode, where every mob is elite and group quests actually require groups or some other difficulty boost with commensurate XP reward. Or you can have LFR levelling mode for people who want to 1 shot every mob and make default levelling somewhat challenging

[Deleted]

Most complaints come from people who don't enjoy leveling in general, as an RPG thing. WoW attracted a lot of action-oriented players who simply don't want or don't care about leveling, they simply want to skip to max level, regardless of how fun, fast, or slow leveling is.

If fun would be the case you wouldn't hear so many "they've made leveling longer!" or "they fixed the experience exploit we've been using to level fast!" arguments, you would hear more of "they removed legacy set bonuses from the game completely!", "i don't feel rewarded or stronger for dinging a level". Aka, you wouldn't hear complaints about leveling being slow, you would hear complaints about it not being fun.

I mean, what do you expect from people who (apparently) loved spamming low level dungeons for hours as their way of leveling toons? And when this shit got hit and became on part with questing they lost their minds.

If this was an actual RPG, then leveling would be fun. WoW is not an RPG in the core of its meaning. You don't have different paths for your character development except the zone you chose to quest or if you want to run dungeons or not. You cannot level properly with a profession and play a crafter. You cannot level as a healer (=solve quests with healing). You don't have different ways to solve a quest (like having various objectives to chose from). You cannot really create your own story experience, it's a huge railroading themepark. Which is ok for your first character, probably a couple more (if you did not do Loremaster on your first), but after you have seen it all, often multiple times, the railroading becomes nothing more than a chore.

And while I theoretically have the option to level with pet battles alone, this is not really an RPG alternative except for Pokemon fans.

[RangerDaz]

i have boosts available.
Heritage armor destroyed the possibility for using them, as the only requirement to get them is to level an allied race from the start.

I hate this obligation. They could do alternative ways for people to get heritage armor on high levels, like daily racial quests that give rep or heriage "artifact" power, or something like that.

[Charge me Doctor]

If this was an actual RPG, then leveling would be fun. WoW is not an RPG in the core of its meaning. You don't have different paths for your character development except the zone you chose to quest or if you want to run dungeons or not. You cannot level properly with a profession and play a crafter. You cannot level as a healer (=solve quests with healing). You don't have different ways to solve a quest (like having various objectives to chose from). You cannot really create your own story experience, it's a huge railroading themepark. Which is ok for your first character, probably a couple more (if you did not do Loremaster on your first), but after you have seen it all, often multiple times, the railroading becomes nothing more than a chore.

And while I theoretically have the option to level with pet battles alone, this is not really an RPG alternative except for Pokemon fans.

While quests are railroaded and your approach is basically the same regardless of class (which is one of my big complaints, when the hell i, as a fire mage, have to use torches and shit to burn stupid huts. And how a warrior can cast spells all of the sudden? How am i communicating to *opposing faction* NPCs?
I just want quests that you approach differently when playing different classes), it's still up for you to decide how and when you approach this quest. The first time you had to get to Arugal you had no problems because you stealthed through tower up, second time you had a problem due to being undergeared clothie in closed space, third time you just ravaged through as literally any class specced into tanking. Granted that gameplay is good enough and environment is punishing you still can have your fun if you want to take it.

Yet i still think that leveling is mostly a chore (too many things got cut out to speed up this process), but scaling change is definitely a step in right direction, as well as making players to stay at X level longer (now make it worthy to invest into gear drops from leveling dungeons or professions and it'll be even better)

[Kokolums]

Blizzard effectively removed leveling and any roadblocks to endgame in diablo 3. You can make a level 1 and be at endgame in hours. The result is people said “im bored this sucks there is nothing to do” and the game died.

There is no way blizz should do the same to wow.

[Super Kami Dende]

Pre-7.3.5 changes + Zone scaling was all that was needed. I still will never understand the absolute dumbfuckery of changing everything else to the mess that it became.

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Blizzard effectively removed leveling and any roadblocks to endgame in diablo 3. You can make a level 1 and be at endgame in hours. The result is people said “im bored this sucks there is nothing to do” and the game died.

There is no way blizz should do the same to wow.

Really? Comparing D3 to WoW. How inane.

[HuxNeva]

The 'cost' of leveling (time or gold) is tightly interlinked with the game's economy system.
Reduce the former enough and you complete destroy the part of the latter that allows 2 characters to earn more gold than 1 for the same time played (not just though multiboxing, but through cherry-picking the best reward/time activities), and anything that relies on cooldowns.
'Mistakes' from previous expansions that made leveling very cheap are seriously hard to eradicate. FWIW, I think the genie is out of the box and will be very hard to correct for unless you are willing to abolish catch-up mechanics and that cure might be even worse than the problem for this game.

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i have boosts available.
Heritage armor destroyed the possibility for using them, as the only requirement to get them is to level an allied race from the start.

I hate this obligation. They could do alternative ways for people to get heritage armor on high levels, like daily racial quests that give rep or heriage "artifact" power, or something like that.

TBH I think people are blowing their 'need' for a transmog far out of proportion.

[Deleted]

Pre 7.3.5 + scaling zones would be a perfect mix. The only downside of pre 7.3.5 leveling was that you outleveled the zone too fast.

People looking for challange during leveling are looking at a wrong activity. People saying "mobs in dungeons died faster than a caster was able to cast a spell" are looking for miniscule problems because who cared about it?

It's not 2010 anymore. People dont want to spend endless time on boring activities for little reward - thats why MMO genre is dying in general. With 7.3.5 changes blizz only kicked already dying horse. Mind boggling really.

Bring back leveling speed from pre 7.3.5, but with scaling zones (and I mean zones from everything before current content, so you can do azeroth up until 100 lev for example).

Games are meant to be FUN. To give you ENTERTAINMENT. And even though rushing through levels two shotting everything like it used to be, wasnt a pinnacle of fun, it was 100x more fun than using 4 cycles of rotation for 15 seconds to kill off one mob.

People looking for challange should focus on end game content. Not the leveling one, on which people already spent countless hours and want to be done with it as soon as possible.

Although the whole change is obviously a way to persuade people to buy leveling boosts. It cant get any obvious when they give you reasoning of "getting less exp, mobs taking 5x more time to kill, and spending 3x more time on leveling through content you've done X times already is MORE FUN". Especially when the boost cost as much as a new game.

So nothing will change, sadly.

The MMO-genre is dying because all MMOs are becoming watered down bleak imitations of the gameplay experiance that got fans of the genre hooked in the first place.


If you dont like spending at least 2 weeks to a month leveling, you dont like MMOs, what you're looking for is something akin to monster hunter. A lobby with instanced boss fights. That is not an MMO.

Considering that since these changes every zone I visit has at least 5-10 other people questing there, I'd say it's been a huge success. Questing is the fastest way of leveling atm with dungeons providing a decent medium between gear and experiance. I keep seeing all these doomsday numbers but I just went 20-66 in about 1 day/ played. That is still plenty fast to me, I honestly think that 4-5 days of /played should be the standard to reach max level at all times.

Leveling and building your character are the two cornerstones of MMOs, both of these are horribly watered down as it is, dont make it worse please. A good MMO is one where people at times stop and think "wow he/she looks so damn cool and strong, I'm gonna get there as well some day"... Not "Oh, I guess they got a boost".

Gold Boosts and near lobbybased gameplay ruined MMOs, lazyness, "I want everything now" etc enabled these changes.

I'm finally enjoying leveling, I can finally complete at least 1 rotation before the boss dies. I dont care what you think, as a new player it must've been horrible to think "I'll do a dungeon, should be a nice challange" and watch the boss keel over in 15 secs or less. Games need challange and danger from the moment you start until you finish, otherwise they are.... BORING.

Games are pointless, and they become chores when they are both pointless and easy.

[Deleted]

Leveling is ok as it is. And it's by no means classic like. yeah mobs die a little slower than they did in the last expansions, bohoo.
You do realize that in Classic there were times were you actually had to grind a bunch of mobs in order to level up and have access to more quests. Now you barley need to do 20% of an expansion's content, maybe even less.

To give a recent example I went to Howling Fjord at level 59. I'm now nearly 66 and have completed like 75% of it with mobs dying in 7 seconds average (fire mage). In WoLK it took you about the same time to kill a mob (not counting t6 geared) and you barley got 2 levels from an entire zone.

How irrelevant do you want leveling to be? 1 shot mobs and 2 quests per level?

[Deleted]

Yeah UP TO.. Also that didn't change anything.. XP gain is still shit

It takes 2-4 days of /played depending on how well you know zones and what class you play. It's faster than any other MMO, it's just not mind numbingly easy anymore.

[Yarathir]

I wonder how some players will react when the level on a classic server for the first time.

Ever stopped to think that the people that dislike leveling as it is now might also be avoiding Classic for this exact reason?
Really activates the almonds.

[hulkgor]

snip

Leveling is fun. Hell, it's been awesome since 7.3.5 with the scaling changes. Already leveled two allied races to max level since, and got 2 others halfway through.

Will also level the remaining ones, yet to be released.

It's a blast. Sure, the xp issues since 8.0 haven't been enjoyable, but it's almost as if those were bugs and have been fixed... *shocker*

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

The gameplay above level 60 is just very boring to me because new skills and tricks start coming so many levels apart and individual levels start taking longer. The gameplay itself does not get any easier or harder in general so it to me becomes a mindless grind without rewards. I also don't really see much difference between pre and post 7.3 leveling in terms of combat but as someone with billion alts it is nice being able to choose from a bigger pool of places to level in.

[Ciadia]

They should just make heirlooms work as they did in the past, for experienced people that just want to get over with the leveling, if you want a slower experience, just don't get the heirlooms / equip them. (or they could double dip, and make two separate pieces of heirloom gear, one for just getting "blue" level gear, and one that increases the XP, hell could be "green" lvl gear if the XP increase was just there).

Lucky i got ~15+ alts @ 110 before this lvling hell (they are mostly alliance), would love to have some new chars with the new allied races and some more on the horde side, after trying to lvl some alts from 7.3.5 and 8.0.1 i just can't stomach the slow pacing it has become, it's anything but fun and interesting, and end up giving up leveling them after a few levels, it's just not fun content, i already got all classes at max lvl, there is just nothing from 1-109 for me personally. For me all the interesting things happen at max lvl, not the journey to max lvl.

[Pandragon]

Part of doing alts for me is doing other quests I haven’t before. Otherwise it’s repetitive.

Which is null and void for pretty much every expansion after MoP. There's only enough different quests for 2 maybe 3 characters.

Exactly. On top....
1. ... you get one free boost when purchasing the game
2. ... you already have every class on maxlevel if you are no casual.
3. ... you don't need more than one maxlvl char if you are a casual.

I wonder how some players will react when the level on a classic server for the first time.

What does casual state have to do with the amount of alts you have? I'm not casual but I'm not gonna level 10 classes I don't like.

[RobertMugabe]

People who DON'T like leveling, but they still Level up like 20 characters are at their own fault and Blizz shouldn't cater to them.

[Tradu]

that does not make the experiance more fun, just faster.

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Also if in any way they were pushing for "Buy more boosts" they wouldn't have made heritage armor, as heritage armor literally DISCOURAGES leveling boosts.

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First one, because it was actually mostly used by people who multiboxxed
second, XP potions were allways rather weird
The hardcap XP gain? Didnt know that, do you have proof of that?
And they didnt nerf other ways of EXP, dungeons still give a fuck ton of exp.

It was in their post about the leveling rework in 7.3.5. They made it so RAF and heirlooms don't stack, because reasons. And they absolutely did nerf other ways of getting XP over the past few years. The bonus objective XP got absolutely gutted during WoD.
And what's wrong with people multiboxing with RAF? It's a way of speeding up leveling but not skipping it entirely, while not being massively overpriced like boosts. Sure, rename it and make it not require a 2nd account. Plenty of other games allow you to buy an XP boost with a limited duration.

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People who DON'T like leveling, but they still Level up like 20 characters are at their own fault and Blizz shouldn't cater to them.

It's my fault that server/faction transfers are massively overpriced and have no "mass transfer" discount?

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It takes 2-4 days of /played depending on how well you know zones and what class you play. It's faster than any other MMO, it's just not mind numbingly easy anymore.

2-4 days is longer than most single player RPGs take to complete, and yet in WoW that's somehow an acceptable requirement to even get to the good part of the game.

[cface]

My problem with leveling before, is that mobs die way too fast. It's like zerging a +0 dungeon with hc antorus gear, and you're a class that needs a bit of rampup.

Wish they could make monsters give more xp, and die slower. It's not fun when the only challenge is that you can't pull more stuff in fear some of the mobs evade..

[Tradu]

My problem with leveling before, is that mobs die way too fast. It's like zerging a +0 dungeon with hc antorus gear, and you're a class that needs a bit of rampup.

Wish they could make monsters give more xp, and die slower. It's not fun when the only challenge is that you can't pull more stuff in fear some of the mobs evade..

Yeah, that's the part they "forgot" to do. They just made everything take longer and now, months later they reduced XP required by "up to" 14%.