Morally Grey? ARE YOU KIDDING ME.[Spoilers]

[Life-Binder]

Garrosh wasn't corrupted.
know this isn't the case what exactly is the problem?

By the time this happened, three races were already in open rebellion with the other two likely to join. This came after these people did nothing but leech off from the Orcs while dragging their feet through the entire war. This came after numerous betrayals, multiple subversive meetings, etc.

this is freaking hilarious lol

rewriting history to make Garry the Hitler look better

Ebon Blade Knights, or using Warlocks & Shadow Priests?

nobody constantly whispers mad things to DKs or warlocks as far as I know

now, SPs (and Alleria and Void Elves) are pretty bad tho, IMHO that shit should be banned .. only a matter of time before one of them summons a Void Lord(ling) on our heads ..

[Wildberry]

They are putting in for faction changes.

The Anduin uni-faction is the future Golden wants. Can you imagine how horrible it would be?


Hello fellow Alliance players, let me tell you about why Garr--ithos did nothing wrong.

[Katchii]

Here's the dialogue that explains why Sylvanas wanted to kill Malfurion:

Sylvanas: "Time is not a luxury we possess, but I respect your desire to know more. THIS has forever altered the balance of power in Azeroth. Deposits of Azerite are being located across the world, <player>. Though we do not yet understand its full potential, it is clear that this substance has vast destructive capability. What will war look like in twenty years? In a hundred? How can the Horde hope to defend its borders if the Alliance controls the flow of Azerite?"

Sylvanas: "What IS certain is that the Alliance will use Darnassus as a safe harbor for funneling Azerite into the Eastern Kingdoms. Anduin Wrynn will build powerful new weapons, and sooner or later he will turn them upon our homelands. First he will strike at the Undercity and Silvermoon, then his gaze will fall upon Kalimdor. For the sake of the Horde's future, we must be the first to act. By occupying Darnassus, we will control the flow of Azerite and ensure it cannot be used against us. The Alliance will dare not attack its own city for fear of harming civilians. With a single stroke, we will guarantee generations of peace."

Sylvanas: "The kaldorei will defy our occupation... unless we break their sprits. We must inflict a blow that will show them what is at stake. They need to lose something... someone... in whom they have absolute trust and faith. A symbol of hope. <The Dark Lady narrows her eyes.> Malfurion Stormrage must die."

I think the little speech given by the dying elf caused her to change the target from Malfurion, to the tree. Not defending her, at all, as I think it's horrendously over the top to burn the tree while civilians remain, but it is a cold-hearted tactical move. One that obviously doesn't really work out, given that we know they'll retaliate and the whole expansion faction war happens, but SHE doesn't know that yet, we as players are seeing into the future while she as a character can't see that far ahead.

[SupBrah]

LOL someone posted this elsewhere:

The Alliance: A faction led by a proud, strong, God-fearing cis white male who only wants to protect his people from savages trying to destroy everything they love.

The Horde: A faction led by a literal screeching banshee feminist who sets fire to places and property just because someone says something she doesn't agree with.

Really activates the old almonds, doesn't it?

[Super Dickmann]

Can anyone link me the "morally grey" video clip? I remember it was in one of the Q&As, I think, but I can't remember which one. I'd like to see if Blizzard ever actually said Sylvanas and/or the burning of Teldrassil would be morally grey or if all of this "the devs lied to us!!!" is just people misremembering.

What they say is the faction as a whole would be morally grey, nothing about Sylvanas in particular. In fact they already said that the cinematic would make it look pretty conclusively that it was Sylvanas who did it and the initial bits would make the Horde look evil but were done for marketing purposes.

[Friendlyimmolation]

They are putting in for faction changes.

I take it back, I much prefer the crappy lord of the rings reference.

[Wyrt]

Jesus fucking Christ, Blizzard, what in the fuck were you thinking?

[Golden Yak]

Sylvanas needed to inflict a devastating psychological blow to the night elves in order to quickly seize their territory, drive them from Kalimdor, and secure the continent for the Horde with a minimum necessary loss of life. Her initial goal was to kill Malfurion Stormrage, which would have broken the spirit of the night elves and secured Horde victory.

However, Malfurion selfishly didn't die, which frankly was a big fuck-up on Saurfang's part. If you're up against a veritable demi-god, you take the 'axe-to-the-back' win. Honor + defeat = defeat.

The only other way to shatter the hope of the night elves was something equivalently devastating and spirit breaking, hence the burning of Teldrassil. Expediency and necessity aren't pretty.

Next time Sylvanas has a war plan that requires a minium loss of life, maybe just embrace it instead of fighting the inevitable - it'll hurt less in the long run.

[Sinistrem]

Can anyone link me the "morally grey" video clip? I remember it was in one of the Q&As, I think, but I can't remember which one. I'd like to see if Blizzard ever actually said Sylvanas and/or the burning of Teldrassil would be morally grey or if all of this "the devs lied to us!!!" is just people misremembering.

It wasn't about her being morally grey but rather Horde as a whole. They must think that if you have black character like sylvanas and add white character like saurfang they somehow balance each other and make entire faction grey.

[Tabrotar]

Ya cause slaughtering innocent civilians in dalaran because Jaina is mad is totally not the same as murdering innocent civilians in darnassus because Sylvanus is mad. Nope. Not the same at all. Completely different. Alliance never does anything morally questionable.

Not canon mate not canon.

The Alliance storyline is the canon one and there nothing of that happend.

Feels shit to be called out again and again but living so far in denial that it takes this video to finally see the truth.

[Super Dickmann]

LOL someone posted this elsewhere:

The Alliance: A faction led by a proud, strong, God-fearing cis white male who only wants to protect his people from savages trying to destroy everything they love.

The Horde: A faction led by a literal screeching banshee feminist who sets fire to places and property just because someone says something she doesn't agree with.

Really activates the old almonds, doesn't it?

After showing us the danger of unchecked aggressive brown people invading through our unguarded border, they've told us about the perils of putting women in positions of power. They also show us that the solution is all joining the leadership of the white man. Surprising coming from Californians.

[lolgubstep]

Seriously, what the hell Blizzard?

I understand that she wanted the head of Stormrage. My only thinking is because she didn't get the head of stormrage, she instead sent a message by burning the world tree.
But the World Tree, even though in-game is alliance, is technically supposed to be a neutral point as it was made by the dragon aspects.

METZEN LEAVES AND EVERYTHING GOES TO SHIT

[Life-Binder]

The Alliance: A faction led by a proud, strong, God-fearing cis white male who only wants to protect his people from savages trying to destroy everything they love.

[seleri]

It wasn't about her being morally grey but rather Horde as a whole. They must think that if you have black character like sylvanas and add white character like saurfang they somehow balance each other and make entire faction grey.

What they say is the faction as a whole would be morally grey, nothing about Sylvanas in particular. In fact they already said that the cinematic would make it look pretty conclusively that it was Sylvanas who did it and the initial bits would make the Horde look evil but were done for marketing purposes.

Yeah, that's what I remember too, but you have people claiming Blizzard are some great betrayers now because Sylvanas is as evil as everyone thought she was. Do either of you remember which video that clip is in? Just to make absolutely sure I'm not misremembering things.

[Jeina]

Given that, in "The Looming Threat" quest (which happens shortly before Malfurion is defeated), they haven't sent word to Stormwind / Tyrande when the attack started ("Darkshore is under attack! Send word to the High Priestess at once!"), it's less about the mages being unable to open a portal for her, but that they realized what was happening too late. Remember that lore-wise, few mages can freely teleport all over the place, and they don't have mobile phone either. That was also reinforced by Malfurion's words - "King Anduin will send his soldiers to aid us. We must hold our ground until they arrive."; If they could teleport Tyrande over by then, the NE would have also been helped by Stormwind soldiers - unless you are suspecting Anduin from delaying his assist for some reasons. When she reached, the battle was already over, Tyrande couldn't do anything to prevent the Horde from occupying or burning Teldrassil.

Yes, Tyrande "abandoned" her people to save Malfurion. Again, Malfurion isn't a random Night Elf. He is (1) her beloved family member and (2) the most important NE figure - so important the Sylvanas believed Malfurion's death would have destroyed the NE's spirit. Delaryn also told us that "He is the only one who can save us". So both emotionally and logically, ensuring that Malfurion will live is a very understandable reason. Losing thousands or more NE might be a blow to them, but losing Malfurion will destroy the Night Elf - even Sylvanas, who was an outsider, realized that. Moreover, she didn't truly abandoned her people - she sent help to Teldrassil in form of us, she just didn't come herself and went to Stormwind to help the already evacuated people ("There I will tend my love's wound... and help my people find respite from this madness").

There is hardly any need for excuses for Tyrande's actions, as I don't even see how it is such a bad thing. As I said, I'm pretty sure if a similar situation was to occur in real life: if my country is somehow invaded and the enemy is winning, the government will prioritizing evacuating the leaders, and no one reasonable would demand punishment for that.

She was like 100 yards away and has a bow. You telling me she couldn't fire an arrow into Sylvanas' back?

[Wildberry]

this is freaking hilarious lol

rewriting history to make Garry the Hitler look better

What part of that is rewritten and/or factually inaccurate in any way, shape or form. The Darkspear Rebellion happened in 5.3. The "True Horde" came into full swing in 5.4.

nobody constantly whispers mad things to DKs or warlocks as far as I know

The only problem with having "mad things" whispered to you, is the possibility that you'll eventually fall in with the Old Gods. We flat-out have Word of God in the form of Blue Text telling us that wasn't the case with Garrosh.

now, SPs (and Alleria and Void Elves) are pretty bad tho, IMHO that shit should be banned .. only a matter of time before one of them summons a Void Lord(ling) on our heads ..

You might personally dislike it, but apparently it's alright with people like Anduin and Turalyon. If those people can stomach Alleria being tied to the Void itself, then there's really not a case for Garrosh's use of a far-less-dangerous object to be considered oh so terrible.

[SupBrah]

Hey now, Manduin hit puberty like a mother after his dad died. Dude's looking like a Brad Pitt now

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I take it back, I much prefer the crappy lord of the rings reference.

All kidding aside, I play both factions, and would like SOME option for playing my Horde toons with honor. Neither of my Horde characters would support killing civilians. Either give me an option to play them with honor as Horde, or offer us free faction changes.

[Qualia]

I think the little speech given by the dying elf caused her to change the target from Malfurion, to the tree. Not defending her, at all, as I think it's horrendously over the top to burn the tree while civilians remain, but it is a cold-hearted tactical move. One that obviously doesn't really work out, given that we know they'll retaliate and the whole expansion faction war happens, but SHE doesn't know that yet, we as players are seeing into the future while she as a character can't see that far ahead.

But she does know, though, she literally told us as much shortly after ("When I sent you on this mission, I did not foresee this end. Our strike on Teldrassil was meant to end a war before it began... to take an enemy's home and destroy their leaders in one stroke. To inflict a wound that would bleed the Alliance dry. We have only partially succeeded. The Alliance will retaliate. They will come for us. For me. For you."). So at best, she did it with little thought and regretted it after the deeds were already carried out and tried to rationalize that it rage weaken the Alliance (even though that goes opposite with her original goal). At worst, it was done on an impulse.

[-aiko-]

This whole expansion is built on smoke and mirrors. From the beginning we were yelling "OLD GODS" and didn't really buy into the faction war thing, but they keep pushing it so strongly that I feel like it really is hiding their ultimate intent. I also don't believe Blizzard is dumb enough to not realize the fan outcry from making Sylvanas a villain. So, I think they still do have an ultimate goal in mind.

Maybe it will be good, maybe it will be shit, but either way they really messed up the execution. Like holy shit this reaction has been negative. Even if they have some amazing twist I don't know if the fans will forgive them.

I have my own theory, but for now I'll just revel in the shitshow until it calms down a bit.