Stossel: The End of Tipping

[Thage]

That's not the same thing; your analogy would apply to customers walking out without paying for their food. But tipping is specifically optional and dependent on the quality of service.

I picked the labor fee instead of the cost of parts and other related charges incurred when hiring a tradesman on purpose. The tip is essentially the restaurant owner putting the labor fee for servers on the customers' shoulder, same as a plumbing company making clients pay for the plumber's time.

[klogaroth]

I'm biased towards the UK system, being from the UK, but I like that tips here are optional rather than expected. That way it actually means something when you tip exceptional service, instead of it just essentially being a service charge for anyone that isn't a dick.

[Morae]

In my country we dont tip.

The thought is ridiculous. I paid for, lets say food in a restaurant. Why should I pay more?

I pay the price and get service for it. They should not be expecting anything more. If they want more money, they better raise the price of their service? If price is too high, I wont buy the service.

[Logwyn]

That's assuming everybody tips, though. I'd bet that a great many either don't, because they don't care, or can't, because they lack money.

Crazy as it is....not tipping is illegal in some places and considered theft of service. I don't agree with it mind you and its crazy.

[Krastyn]

On the flip side, if a tradesman runs out to a job site, does the job, and the person they did the job for tries to fuck them over by, say, refusing to pay the labor fee on the bill, you're damn right they're going to have an issue with that.

And why shouldn't they? It's perfectly reasonable to be upset that someone wasted your time when you could have spent that time performing your service for someone who won't cheap out on you, whether it's a plumber or AC tech on the job site, the IT guy in an office building, or a server who just busted their ass giving a table top-notch service only to get a line through the gratuity on the ticket when they've got three other tables on top of it.

But no, Dys is triggered by people being irritated when someone expects a convenience service and won't pay for it, because of arbitrary lines between what is and isn't an 'adult' job (and this is speaking as someone who recently switched careers to work in sheet metal to help a friend get their business up and running, in case we need to pass that arbitrary barrier to be allowed an opinion on the subject by the magnanimous Drys) so obviously people aren't allowed to be upset at cheapskates taking advantage of a service.

For pretty much every other job you listed other than server, there is a pre-negotiated rate that a customer will pay. The only way one of those workers would go to a non-"cheap" customer is if they can negotiate a higher rate, or if it is a job with more hours.

Tipping is an odd concept because you're expected to pay someone a random amount of money above and beyond their wage for.......doing their job.

It's not common to tip a mechanic, a tradesperson, a nurse, a fast food employee, or countless other jobs, but for some reason some jobs it has become this sacred cow that can't be touched.

I would greatly prefer it to be relegated to the "it's nice if it happens but it is not expected" category. This is also coming from a former server / bartender. Pay people a good wage to do their jobs.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I swear Joe’s Crab Shack tried this a few years back in select markets and the servers hated it as they came away with less money than with making shit wage plus tips.

With that being said, can wait staff shut the fuck up about it then?

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How is it even legal to employ full time for $2 per hour? I don't get it.

Its not, employers must make up the difference.

Doesn't matter though, as wait staff on average make much more than the minimum wage.

[stevenho]

I already explained that

No you didn't explain it
You wrote that you pay them (lets say) $2 per hour and somebody else is paying them the rest of the money. Not you.

[shaunika123]

I really wish tipping wasn't a thing. Would make my expenses go way down.

not really. you'd just have to pay a higher base.

[Jonnusthegreat]

No, it wouldn't. It would go up as anyone with a brain would be able to figure out right away. They aren't going to charge the same thing when they have to pay more out of pocket expenses. They could just do what Mc Donald's has done and have self service to keep costs the same but that kinda defeats the purpose of going to a sit down restaurant doesn't it?

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I already explained that

They would charge more, but not as much as I tip.

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not really. you'd just have to pay a higher base.

But it would be lower than the current total.

[Swalload]

That's assuming everybody tips, though. I'd bet that a great many either don't, because they don't care, or can't, because they lack money.

Most do tip because it's expected, it's a social construct that makes us feel bad when not tipping.

Also, if you lack money to tip, you shouldn't be eating at restaurants in the first place.

[Krastyn]

That's not the same thing; your analogy would apply to customers walking out without paying for their food. But tipping is specifically optional and dependent on the quality of service.

It was his comparison, not mine. The whole argument started because Thage feels that tipping is mandatory, and to not do so is stealing service.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Most do tip because it's expected, it's a social construct that makes us feel bad when not tipping.

Also, if you lack money to tip, you shouldn't be eating at restaurants in the first place.

The employer must make up the difference. So even if barely anyone ever tipped, servers would still make minimum wage. Being that the job is essentially as hard as fast food work, I wouldn't think that would be so bad.

[stevenho]

Doesn't matter though, as wait staff on average make much more than the minimum wage.

I'm not talking about staff though. Are there any other industries like the restaurant business where owners can pay staff $2 and customers cover the rest?

[Skulltaker]

The flip side is people can and often do tip more than 15%.

Sometimes you get screwed by a table. Sometimes you get a big tip.

Crazy as it is....not tipping is illegal in some places and considered theft of service. I don't agree with it mind you and its crazy.

Most do tip because it's expected, it's a social construct that makes us feel bad when not tipping.

Also, if you lack money to tip, you shouldn't be eating at restaurants in the first place.

Just in addition, I'm not a US citizen. Tipping works somewhat different in Germany.

[Kathandira]

I just wish the tip-reliant staff would shut the fuck up when they do get stiffed. You want to roll the dice with your wage, and then throw a fit when someone doesn't abide by your expectations? Fuck you, suck it up and accept it like an adult, or get a job with a real wage, again, like an adult.

That is why I left the Restaurant Industry. I wanted a stable income, which being a server does not provide. Not knowing exactly what i'll make each month is too stressful when trying to maintain an adult life.

[shaunika123]

They would charge more, but not as much as I tip.

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But it would be lower than the current total.

then that would mean the waiter earns less, and they already make shit.

[Kathandira]

If Tipping was done away with, just dropping servers wages down to minimum wage isn't going to fly.

The restaurant needs to look at the average sales per server, and make the wage 15% of that.

For example. If you sold $400 worth of food and drinks in a shift, you would expect $60 for the night. A shift could be 4pm - 10pm. So $60 dollars divided by 6 hours is $10 a hour. Which is above the minimum wage. This way the servers are still earning in the ballpark of what they made before Tipping was removed.

[Hilhen7]

Typically people don't report 100% of their tips on their federal return, so their is that.

[Jonnusthegreat]

then that would mean the waiter earns less, and they already make shit.

Good. Unskilled labor deserves poor wages.

[Kathandira]

then that would mean the waiter earns less, and they already make shit.

That depends on where you work. At TGI Fridays, I would make between $40 and $100 on a night shift pending on the size of the parties I was waiting on. At Cheesecake Factory, anything less than $100 on a night shift means you had a horrible night.

It greatly varies from place to place, as well as who sits at your tables and what they order, and finally how good or bad they are as tippers. Too many variables to say whether a particular server is paid well, or poorly.

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Good. Unskilled labor deserves poor wages.

Ever been a server?