Moonkin: different cast time

[Tokas]

Hi,

does it not bother you, that each spell has different spellcast time?
granted I'm only seasonal Druid player, - whenever I try to get used to Moonkin, I'm just getting a bit annoyed by that.
on top of that, why tf both dots must have different durations... what's the thinking behind this design?

well if that's my main complain about druids - you guys must really be proud of your class standing in good place atm except Feral ofc, - you such dick (dps wise)

[vorchun]

You're saying like there are tens and tens of abilities you have to hardcast, but not counting Stellar Flare (which is a talent) there are actually only two rotational dps spells with cast time - Lunar Strike and Solar Wrath.

[Tokas]

You're saying like there are tens and tens of abilities you have to hardcast, but not counting Stellar Flare (which is a talent) there are actually only two rotational dps spells with cast time - Lunar Strike and Solar Wrath.

well... yes, and both do more or less the same thing, while having different cast times, and must be cast 1 22 1 1 2 1 1 2 21 11 2 etc... random like that due to empowrments

[PickleballAce]

If Moonfire and Sunfire had the same durations we'd constantly be refreshing them at the same time until other encounter or rotation events eventually de-sync'd them.

It's probably more interesting from a rotationcrafting standpoint for the dots to be refreshed at different intervals, sometimes overlapping and sometimes quite different.

[Deleted]

well... yes, and both do more or less the same thing, while having different cast times, and must be cast 1 22 1 1 2 1 1 2 21 11 2 etc... random like that due to empowrments

Ehm...yes, you are right. Moonkin is a product of very lazy design, its nowhere near the elemental shaman for example where you can see clear distinction between spells. Your rotation is more or less the same no matter the situation. And now even empowered versions of spells do the same thing.

It would be amazing to simply remove sunfire, change roots into 20sec DoT (and maybe make it root the target for 5 secs breakable then randomly root for 1-2 secs for the rest of the duration) and make lunar strike apply moonfire if it hits target already afflicted with moonfire...I dont know, all kinds of crazy things could be done

this doesnt mean its bad, its just boring and lazy thats all

[Tokas]

if it was up to me I'd just make solar spells apply solar dot (either very short duration or stacking)
and lunar spells doing the same with lunar dot.
idk why, I just feel no joy at all applying two dots with instant casts... shadow feels better in that regard for me. Not sure why...

[ChrisKoe]

if it was up to me I'd just make solar spells apply solar dot (either very short duration or stacking)
and lunar spells doing the same with lunar dot.
idk why, I just feel no joy at all applying two dots with instant casts... shadow feels better in that regard for me. Not sure why...

Boy, you must hate Affliction then...

If you look closer at the moonkin's spells, they are quite different.
Sunfire has a shorter duration but an Aoe component, Lunar Strike has longer cast time but splash damage, filler/builder spells give different amounts of Lunar Power.
Maintaining dots is part of the spec concept. If you made them passive, you could just gut them completely and bake their damage into SW/LS.
If you look abit deeper into it, it's not as bland as you make it look. It's not super exiting and engaging, either. But far from boring, imho.

[Tokas]

well running chicken spitting lazers from the sky cannot be boring for sure, it just feels weird to play one for some reason.
affli lock - I like actually

[lappee]

Imagine if we only had 1 spell that did everything, we would have such engaging rotation of "1 1 1 1 1", I bet you'd like that.

[Tokas]

Imagine if we only had 1 spell that did everything, we would have such engaging rotation of "1 1 1 1 1", I bet you'd like that.

omg I could bind it to 2 and 3, so the rotation would be 1 2 3 3 2 1 2 321 3 21 1 321 321 321, just like your age!

[lappee]

omg I could bind it to 2 and 3, so the rotation would be 1 2 3 3 2 1 2 321 3 21 1 321 321 321, just like your age!

So given that I'm 12332123213211321321321 years old, I must be wise enough to say that "1 1 1 1" rotation would still be too difficult for you?

[Tokas]

So given that I'm 12332123213211321321321 years old, I must be wise enough to say that "1 1 1 1" rotation would still be too difficult for you?

12,332123213211321321321
there

[lappee]

12,332123213211321321321
there

So still the same age, unless you just have no idea how to write decimals in English in which case you'd still be wrong since the accuracy is far below even milliseconds.

Yeah, I can understand that numbers can be hard - like understanding why spells don't have the same cast times!

[exochaft]

I certainly don't have an issue with different cast times as they do different things, only real downside? is that Solar Wrath is still the predominant filler when movement is major factor (which can happen with larger trashpacks). MF/SF not needing Starfall for empowerment is a godsend, as there are many situations where it works out well, especially movement. If I had a complaint, our spenders still feel way to anemic for the effort it takes to generate AsP for them... I've had my DoTs sometimes be my #1 damage source on the beta when normally you'd think Starfall/Starsurge would due to how fights play out.

[Grusalugg]

The only dislike I have is that since you need to be casting and chaining you spells all the time, unexpected empowerment procs sometimes are sometimes devalued when you need them in certain windows. Let's say I have no astral power to cast starsurge or starfall, I have no empowerment, I am chaining solar wrath on a single target while I was casting wrath, lunar strike empowerment pops up and before I use it on my target, it is dead or out of my burst window. Because I was already started casting my following solar wrath when empowerment procced.

[exochaft]

The only dislike I have is that since you need to be casting and chaining you spells all the time, unexpected empowerment procs sometimes are sometimes devalued when you need them in certain windows. Let's say I have no astral power to cast starsurge or starfall, I have no empowerment, I am chaining solar wrath on a single target while I was casting wrath, lunar strike empowerment pops up and before I use it on my target, it is dead or out of my burst window. Because I was already started casting my following solar wrath when empowerment procced.

That's pretty much the problem of any caster with a cast time. If I'm interpreting this correctly, think of it like a frost mage, at least in Legion, haven't touched it in a while: you're spamming Frostbolts trying to get an instant Flurry proc. When Flurry procs, you're already casting another Frostbolt... and that's fine, it would be a DPS loss to wait and see if you got procs after every Frostbolt anyways, so you just use Flurry after you finishing casting that Frostbolt. What Moonkins have over frost mages is that we have charges on those procs, hence why the general mentality is to not go over 2 charges just in case you proc unexpected empowerments.

To be fair, empowerments are more like icing on the cake, especially the ones you proc from casting generators (since Starsurge usage is pretty predictable). On the beta, I have capped on empowerments, but it's usually because stuff is dying so fast and my cast time is so slow. On a pure ST scenario with little movement, you likely won't even come close to capping empowerments at the beginning of BfA. If you're worried about initial burst, we have talents that take care of that, like Fury of Elune or Nature's Balance or Warrior of Elune.

[Grusalugg]

That's pretty much the problem of any caster with a cast time. If I'm interpreting this correctly, think of it like a frost mage, at least in Legion, haven't touched it in a while: you're spamming Frostbolts trying to get an instant Flurry proc. When Flurry procs, you're already casting another Frostbolt... and that's fine, it would be a DPS loss to wait and see if you got procs after every Frostbolt anyways, so you just use Flurry after you finishing casting that Frostbolt. What Moonkins have over frost mages is that we have charges on those procs, hence why the general mentality is to not go over 2 charges just in case you proc unexpected empowerments.

To be fair, empowerments are more like icing on the cake, especially the ones you proc from casting generators (since Starsurge usage is pretty predictable). On the beta, I have capped on empowerments, but it's usually because stuff is dying so fast and my cast time is so slow. On a pure ST scenario with little movement, you likely won't even come close to capping empowerments at the beginning of BfA. If you're worried about initial burst, we have talents that take care of that, like Fury of Elune or Nature's Balance or Warrior of Elune.

I also played frost mage during legion, even played during double lance era. Still this one feels a bit more annoying to me. May be it's my misconception of "if that cast is not empowered it's trash" mentality, if I can't put the value an empowerment outside of my mistakes I feel bad.

[Tokas]

So still the same age, unless you just have no idea how to write decimals in English in which case you'd still be wrong since the accuracy is far below even milliseconds.

Yeah, I can understand that numbers can be hard - like understanding why spells don't have the same cast times!

123 isn't equal to 12.3 you know... but oh well, Fins never had quality schools up there.

[Socialhealer]

123 isn't equal to 12.3 you know... but oh well, Fins never had quality schools up there.

petty arguing with one of the best balance druids, while admitting you're only seasonal.

This is how you stay shit, good luck!

[Tokas]

petty arguing with one of the best balance druids, while admitting you're only seasonal.

This is how you stay shit, good luck!

not arguing over gameplay at all, just basic logic
good luck you too, shit