Stossel: The End of Tipping

[Deleted]

Which is a staffing issue more than an indictment of the business model, i.e. don't hire shitheads.

If you have to spend the majority of your time making sure people aren't acting like shitheads to each other then you should think about changing something more fundamental than the personnel involved.

[Stormdash]

If you have to spend the majority of your time making sure people aren't acting like shitheads to each other then you should think about changing something more fundamental than the personnel involved.

Like wondering why their parents raised shitheads?

[AeneasBK]

If you have to spend the majority of your time making sure people aren't acting like shitheads to each other then you should think about changing something more fundamental than the personnel involved.

YMMV, this is not a common thing.

[Raeph]

Tipping won't go away. All that will happen is the bill will be broken down into 2 line items

Goods: $xx.xx
Service: $xx.xx

They will force a tip, and give less to the employee. The beautiful thing about tips, is that you're allowed to actually pay the person what you think their time and effort were worth, and the business can't strip that down.

My haircut takes about 15-20 minutes to do, I tip $5 because they do it well, and they do it fast. It would piss me off if the hair place started charging me $5 more, and the service got slower (because they're no longer being driven to be fast to get onto the next tipper). When you're only paid hourly, work is just a run-out-the-clock situation.

If a person isn't making tips, they're probably not doing it well. A company should be (if they're not forced already) to supplement a person pay, if through pay and tips they don't meet minimum wage for that pay period. In this way, they're not penalized too heavily for not getting tips, yet still gives them the chance to make great wages through strong tips.

I kind of like that idea actually.

Goods price then service price.

Sometimes during the work week I just want to grab a meal and get out; I'll eat on the road usually. But I don't eat out much because fast food is generally terrible for you. On the weekends or evenings when I go out with my wife I like going to a place where we are served by good wait staff; it seems to make the night out better.

I would be perfectly fine with say paying $7-8 for a good meal but just grabbing and going but then if I wanted to be served in the restaurant pay another $7-10 for a good experience with wait staff. That's per plate pricing. Maybe more depending on where I'm going. Though I will say anything higher than $25 a plate would be pushing it for me.

I would still leave the option of leaving a tip for good service though.

Granted a plan like this would lead to fewer wait staff unless the owner/operator invests heavily in hospitality training for their staff members and makes it more a core part of their business rather than just a option.

[Krastyn]

If you had actually read what I wrote, you'd realize, in terms of sexual harassment, I actually specifically mentioned that you didn't use an innuendo.

Let's both go back and do a little reading, shall we:

Further, the problem with the above and beyond is laced with sexual harassment innuendo by yourself and everyone else. If the waitress shows some cleavage is a common statement (granted, not by you).

Notice the part in bold? You specifically call me out for saying my post is laced with sexual harassment innuendo. You clarify that in the second line I didn't ask for the waitress to show some cleavage. You made a blanket statement that it was, and said it wasn't in one specific case.

It's just a really common points that show up in every single thread about tipping. People say they want extra special service to give a tip, and mention things like showing a little cleavage or wiggle their asses, etc...

I agree it is common, but making that assumption about my post when nothing I said implies that is a bad way to have a conversation.

I'll tip other jobs that don't normally get tips, such as tradespeople. But it's the same criteria as servers. If you just do your basic job, why do you deserve a tip?

Further, near the end, I'd make sure I boxed up their meals should they need it instead of noticing tons of servers that just set boxes down on the tables and made the customerd do it themselves.

And that is indeed something I would consider going above and beyond these days.

[/QUOTE]In terms of a server that you assume does less for a table. It's completely false. Just because someone else delivered your food, however doesn't mean that your server wasn't slacking because they were likely delivering food to someone elses table. Further, if there was an expo, it also means that said server is likely tipping out the expo. And exactly the same with a busser. All of which servers are required to tip out. Hell, a lot of restaurants now are based on the sales of the server and as thus, it becomes automatic. Thus stiffing a server means that server loses money on a table if they get tipped less than the mandatory tipout, typically 3-5% of their sales. [/QUOTE]

I fully understand servers have to tip out. When I was a bartender at a pub, the servers tipped out 2% to me, and 1% to the kitchen. I rarely ever completely stiff a server because of knowing this. But this is a problem of the business model they created. Remove tipping, pay your wait staff a lot more, bump the pay of the support staff a little more. I'm not advocating minimum wage. I'm advocating more. In Canada, servers already get minimum plus tips.

I wasn't quite clear on what I meant by the server does less work, but more, why specifically should the server be the only one I tip, and receive the majority of said tip? I've been to many restaurants where the main server sees me four times. Take my drink order, take my food order, checks later on the food and asks if we want more drinks, and then brings the bill. Meanwhile someone sat me, someone cooked my food, someone made my drinks, someone brought me my food, someone refilled my water, someone else cleaned my plates away. Yet it is the server who is going to reap the majority of the tip, just for doing their job like everyone else in the restaurant.

[/QUOTE]In terms of percentages. it's really based on what the government as dictated that servers assume they make. Lots of computerized tracking and credit card tips show what a server makes But the goverment dictates based on sales and not just a random amount.[/QUOTE]

But why is it a percentage to begin with? Why should the server get a larger tip because I decided to order the $150 bottle of wine over the $50 bottle? Their level of work is exactly the same and they had no input into my choice.

The other topic you haven't answered with support, is why should we tip server? The only reason you supplied so far is because it provides incentive for better service, but nothing actually backs this up, and research proves otherwise. Why do we tip a server, and not a flight attendant?

The tipping model truly only works for one person - the business owner. It lets them offload their labor costs to the customer.

- - - Updated - - -

Gratuity is one of the only true and impactful forms of meritocracy in the workforce, anywhere, and it's unique to the service industry. Sure, there is some randomness to it, stiffs are awful people and will stiff when it suits them -- but you can very easily see in a front-of-house staff that overall, better servers get better tips because they are doing a better job. Half-assed servers who constantly smell like their smoke break and don't lean in on anticipating their tables' needs get more mediocre tips because they are more mediocre at their job.

Except there is little to no data to back that up, and increasing data that incentives like that not only don't work but can lead to worse outcomes.

The truly good servers will indeed separate themselves from the truly bad, but other than that it is going to come down to the customers and the culture more than the actual server, on average.

[Jonnusthegreat]

No, it would just get reshuffled into the cost of your food.

No, it would decrease. Not by the full amount, but it would decrease.

[Khaza-R]

No, it would decrease. Not by the full amount, but it would decrease.

You're probably correct. Especially with large chain restaurants which could absorb the labor costs better than mom & pop restaurants.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Waiters and waitresses, you know, the people who actually perform the job, hate the idea of losing their tips.

They make more money this way. Leave them alone por favor.

Why not give them the full wage AND let them get tips? Then they'd get more money as a baseline and tips (and tips would become what they're supposed to be, an additional sum of money given in gratitude for service above what was expected).

[spanishninja]

I picked the labor fee instead of the cost of parts and other related charges incurred when hiring a tradesman on purpose. The tip is essentially the restaurant owner putting the labor fee for servers on the customers' shoulder, same as a plumbing company making clients pay for the plumber's time.

uh, no. restaurants bake the cost of labor into the prices of the items themselves (with a margin of course). do you really think a steak is worth 20 dollars?

[Deleted]

It really isn’t a lot more than that. It has nothing to do with comfort. I understand that inflation has outpaced minimum wage increases. And I have been pushing for liveable wage for a while now. Thanks for the tips though?

Comfort is the crux imho, if you can't live comfortably on a fulm time wage, things need to change. There is an average, because a lot of countries have found it, if you find the term to be too abstract for you.

[Deleted]

Comfort is too subjective of a word to apply. What I find comfortable others would find insufficient.

Sure, so you should define it as I said along the lines of what makes people happy with their life. I.e what so many countries have already done.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Comfort is too subjective of a word to apply. What I find comfortable others would find insufficient.

How about not having to work two jobs to pay rent and feed your family?

[Deleted]

Bullshit. There are no countries who define minimum wage by happiness levels that I’m aware of.

I never advocated for minimum wage, you are. Sweden base our wages by the market, competitiveness and being able to live on that wage. Nothing is set in stone like a $/hr minimum wage.

[DesMephisto]

Waiters and waitresses, you know, the people who actually perform the job, hate the idea of losing their tips.

They make more money this way. Leave them alone por favor.

Oh? And? I'm tired of tipping being a requirement. Restaurants would get my business more if they did away with this crap. That's their lose though.

[Deleted]

That’s not true. You have repeatedly advocated for a minimum wage that allows for comfortable living. Unless someone else has been posting for you...

From the outset, in my first post in this thread I spoke quite literally to the contrary.

Minimum wage is a holdover remnant from the robber baron era and america is so unwilling to change for the better.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

nah, it just comes across that way because of threads like this. But really, every day in pretty much every profession, there are people who complain about their jobs on social media from all walks of life. So, no, waiters aren't any whinier than any other type of worker.

I dunno, I see posts about it a lot on social media. Especially sad when they keep spreading misinformation like "servers only make 2.13 an hour so they have a right to your tips!" ... I saw that post just yesterday on Facebook. It was an article.

[stevenho]

Because then they would be grossly overpaid for the type of work they do. Quite simple.

Spoken like a true communist.
Explain how is it a detriment to yourself or ANYONE that random people choose to tip waiters who are already earning minimum from their employers.

[Masark]

Because it would be too expensive for most people to go out to eat?

Except that's false. Servers here make full minimum wage ($10.96) here, plus tips. People still go out to eat.

[Deleted]

No, you objected to the term “minimum wage”. Your entire position has been that we should be advocating for comfortable wages, which is merely a way of saying an appropriate minimum wage that is also a living wage.

Nop because I still thinks the Swedish model trumps that by far.

[anyaka21]

I dunno, I see posts about it a lot on social media. Especially sad when they keep spreading misinformation like "servers only make 2.13 an hour so they have a right to your tips!" ... I saw that post just yesterday on Facebook. It was an article.

No offense, but just because it comes up every day on your social media doesn't mean it comes up a lot on everyone elses. As someone that was in the business and made comments on almost every thread I saw, I never get those, and you'd think I would. But on the other side of the coin, I do get about 200 posts on Facebook per day about impeaching Trump.... I'm sure others get more, and others get less. Just is what it is. But ancedotal evidence about people complaining about their job might just be your feed.