Burning crusade was bad

[Deleted]

All the dungeons were linear and the introduction of heroics was the first step toward muti-level difficulties.
Stunherald and other RNG ruled PvP. Arenas introduction frankly ruined PvP shifting balance from group to 3v3. This began the homogenisation we see today.
Tier tokens
40man -> 10man -> 25man killed shit loads of guilds.
Introduction of flying mounts seriously damaged world pvp.
Daily quests became the standard for rep farming, not nessecary worse than Vanillas farm everything approach but a lot faster and led to daily hubs.
Pvp gear was from arena the only method of decent gear was playing in a sand pit fighting your own faction not the Alliance.
Druids in Arena

[frogger237]

Flying mounts helped people get to world pvp "events". The only way it hurt it was by helping people getting away from assholes camping them.

Everything in Vanilla was improved in BC. Warlocks and non holy paladins actually became viable.

[Ave07]

The main problem with heroics at around launch was the fact that they were too difficult. People would farm the same few heroics mainly the mechanar for the badges before Blizzard made adjustments.

40 man raids lets be honest, most people were either afk during MC days and it was very difficult to schedule 40 people to show up for 40 man raids.

Yeah I agree with you PvP was broken as I remember Warrior/Druid would dominate 2v2 as you can just spam cyclone as a druid.

World PvP died when they introduced battlegrounds.

Daily was a solution for people who had trouble making gold.

[Koward]

@OP You don't present any argument so your text looks a bit like a shit post :/

Flying mounts helped people get to world pvp "events". The only way it hurt it was by helping people getting away from assholes camping them.

The free flight offered by flying mounts was a well-known bad decision for the game, and for most games anyway. That's why Blizzard wanted to remove it completely at WoD. It's simply too convenient, allows you to bypass mobs and it destroys the chance of player encounters if they both have their mount. It also nullifies all the level design done on the ground by the devs.

[frogger237]

@OP You don't present any argument so your text looks a bit like a shit post :/



The free flight offered by flying mounts was a well-known bad decision for the game, and for most games anyway. That's why Blizzard wanted to remove it completely at WoD. It's simply too convenient, allows you to bypass mobs and it destroys the chance of player encounters if they both have their mount. It also nullifies all the level design done on the ground by the devs.

It gives you more dimensions to design in tho meaning you can make better areas. Ground only is just for cheap quick shit.

[chooi]

Back to reality: actually, it was the best expansion this game has ever seen.

[Koward]

It gives you more dimensions to design in tho meaning you can make better areas. Ground only is just for cheap quick shit.

Perhaps you could indeed use the extra dimension to bring new gameplay but that is usually not the case in World of Warcraft where the world is primarly designed with a ground perspective in mind. They tried to design in 3D a bit with Skettis then later with Vash'jir but it was not very effective IMO.

Also I would not call ground design "cheap quick shit". It's surely a lot easier because it's more intuitive to build obstacles and challenges, but the overwhelming majority of games shows that you can do a lot of very good stuff without giving free XYZ movement to the player.

Back to reality: actually, it was the best expansion this game has ever seen.

I agree. Better than anything that followed. I still prefer the vanilla game without any expansion, even though I appreciated many changes especially with balancing.

[Mojo03]

The only thing good about it was it was the last expansion that put genuine care into (you can feel it)

On the other hand, I didn't care for the raid or arena mentality (all there was to do)

[Stormspellz]

All the dungeons were linear and the introduction of heroics was the first step toward muti-level difficulties.
Stunherald and other RNG ruled PvP. Arenas introduction frankly ruined PvP shifting balance from group to 3v3. This began the homogenisation we see today.
Tier tokens
40man -> 10man -> 25man killed shit loads of guilds.
Introduction of flying mounts seriously damaged world pvp.
Daily quests became the standard for rep farming, not nessecary worse than Vanillas farm everything approach but a lot faster and led to daily hubs.
Pvp gear was from arena the only method of decent gear was playing in a sand pit fighting your own faction not the Alliance.
Druids in Arena

Arena didn't ruin pvp, it just held balance accountable, in classic it took epic levels of over the top to get something to even be considered to be nerfed. And you had random rng things as well in classic like a mind control helm backfiring, the same orc racial, stun resistance talents, ect.

40 -> 25 man, really wasn't that big of a deal, it let the big guilds cut the fat.

flying mounts was opening of Pandora's box

and individual spec balance in one situation is a shitty way to rate an entire expansion of content.


TBC remains the single biggest adjustment to wow as an expansion, is it perfect certainly not, but you also have to remember it was released nearly 15 years ago, everything about gaming has changed since then. From a personal standpoint I never had more fun playing wow then during TBC.

[Crillam]

Heroics made dungeons like ramparts, BF etc relevant at max lvl. Else they would just run the like 4 70 dungeons over and over again. Instead they could now run ALL TBC dungeons at max lvl and get gear etc. I don't know what's better, to have 4 options or 10. Even if some HCs were easier than others, there were still more options.
Also why is muti-level difficulties a bad thing? Let the bad players do LFR, they won't hurt you in anyway. And you yourself can do mythic. There is no real downside to it.

Again. Arena gave players new options on how they wanted to PvP. Do they wanna be a lowlife and do world pvp IE gank low lvls. Queue to what ever BG they like or smaller grps like 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5.

Really, tier tokens is bad? First of all we need to look how tier got changed in TBC. Each spec got a seperate item. In vanilla, there was only one. So do you rather want items drop for each individuall spec? Like drop T6 shoulder for enha shaman, or ele shaman etc. Or maybe you still want tokens but for each class individually so they can choose if they want to pick resto, enha, or ele for an example. However it would still suck. Instead of having 3 tokens that can drop it would have to be 7. So you got 4 warriors you only want the tier item to drop 4 times for maxium value, thats a pretty low number. With tokens that share it can go all the way to 10-11. The chances to have RNG fuck you like it did back in vanilla is much lower. "Oh look, paladin shoulder dropped and we're horde, hurray"

With 40 man raids you could have 20 people carry the rest in most of the raids. 20 people were really good at the game, the other 20 were all from meh to shitty, it didn't really matter cause it was so easy anyway. To have 40 people online in time for a raid could sometimes be a pain. Sure it felt more "epic" when fighting bosses I'll give you that. But in the end not very practical.

World pvp was mostly 3 people ganking 1 or max lvl rogues going to STV and gank lvl 30s. So not much of a loss there.

I rather do dailys than running strat 100 times. Sure dailys back in TBC were not very good. I would say that dailys became better with MoP when it could be different dailys each day. To have some veriety. And world quests are great. Easy to choose which one you wanna do, more options etc.

Ehm. What if all players on opposite faction on your server were shit? What if all allys on your server were at 1300 rating and the hordes were at 1900? Sure easy win but I guess you want a challange after all and not steamroll over them every time you queue up for an arena? Or the other way around. What if the horde sucked and allys steamrolled? It made it more balanced which is better, right?

[Kokolums]

BC was great because for most of it, we still had the complete in-game community social structure which is all that really matters and subs were going thru the roof because of it. The game mechanics are secondary to the community aspect.

[Mirishka]

It gives you more dimensions to design in tho meaning you can make better areas. Ground only is just for cheap quick shit.

This statement is so ass-backwards that it hurts my heart.

[Rustov]

Inclined to agree, for the reasons stated, and for personal pet peeves.
Hunters were jokes throughout the entire expansion. Raids devolved into tolerable dps produced by spamming our Steady Shot macro, Beast Mastery mandatory. Arena we were utterly worthless, min range +dead zone + pillar humping left us completely nonviable.
Alterac Valley was desecrated in BC.
The short, linear Scarlet Monastary style dungeons that predominated are sad, even sadder is that they killed the labyrinthine BRD-style dungeons.
Hated half of the zones, far too much lifeless desolation for my tastes: Bone Wastes, Netherstorm, Hellfire, Shadowmoon. It's a shame to have a 10/10 zone like Nagrand appended to that husk of a continent.
Finally, I associate BC with the only time I tried hardcore raiding, and nearly destroyed my real life by trying to wrap my schedule around raid times.

[McNeil]

TBC has its flaws but its still an improvement over vanilla imo. I didn't like that they start making dungeons incredibly linear and how much art assets they reuse for different wings. They went overboard with the sciencefiction stuff and I still have a hard time accepting that there are space ships in this universe, let alone turning one of them into a raid where a beloved WC3 character dies. Speaking of which they turned a lot of WC3 characters into raid bosses while with some of them it doesn't make sense that we even kill them. I can get behind extra raid and dungeon difficulties as long as they don't go overboard, which is what this game has been doing for the past expansions. Just having normal/heroic is fine enough.

They did improve classes a lot and made a lot of specs actually viable to play. Indifferent with flying mounts, they were cool when it was new but it ended up making the game smaller. The community was still very much alive and got together to pug smaller raids more often. The zones and questing were better designed, the overall questing flow was also solid as there were a lot of different zones and towns to choose from. Also draenei and blood elves were great additions, I only wish blood elves weren't so damn popular as it felt like the Horde was losing its savage image. I remember a lot of occations where I ended up with 4 blood elves in a group while I was the only other race. And doing Karazhan with like 7 blood elves... think that happened at least once.

[Chaosshadow]

Not sure of troll bait. But I'll bite.

BC was the best expansion. I raided hardcore the whole expansion and had the time of my life. You are just mad you never got to experience it.

[ArenaDk]

BC was great because for most of it, we still had the complete in-game community social structure which is all that really matters and subs were going thru the roof because of it. The game mechanics are secondary to the community aspect.

So what do you call the wow player here and ingame? not a community?

[solarfallz]

It was not as good as classic.

It's still really good, I played a shitload during BC and racked up probably close to 100k HKs during the expansion, but ultimately it was just not as good as classic. Most new abilities added in BC were poorly designed. They opted to (mostly) give classes abilities/talents that helped with the class' weakness, rather than playing to their strengths.

I think rogues are a great example. In classic, they were always extremely weak to DoTs. It was one of the various balancing factors for a) stealth, and b) their MASSIVE offensive capability. Cloak of Shadows completely negated that weakness, which should have stayed. It allowed for a "get out of jail free card" whenever they were caught out of position. Terrible addition to the game.

Another nice example is Lifebloom. What an absolute abortion of game design this one is. Druids, a unique healer that is immune to polymorph, has massive mobility, and has the best instant-healing arsenal in the game hands-down. One of the very few abilities that kept resto druids in check was offensive dispel. So what does Blizzard do? Give them dispel protection. But let's not stop there, let's make that dispel protection also heal for an assload even if you DON'T dispel it. Win-win situation for the druid, Lifebloom is garbage.

Oh how about Ice Lance? Remember how in Classic, Frost had to rely on a hard-casted 2.5s Frostbolt cast to deal significant damage? And that was the trade-off for having such insane shit as Frostbite and Shatter? Well how about we add an INSTANT cast, massive damage spell only limited by how often your target is frozen (which, coincidentally, is very often considering the existence of Frostbite and the addition of a second frost nova from water ele). What could go wrong? EVERYTHING, THAT'S WHAT COULD GO WRONG.

[Sinndra]

@OP You don't present any argument so your text looks a bit like a shit post :/



The free flight offered by flying mounts was a well-known bad decision for the game, and for most games anyway. That's why Blizzard wanted to remove it completely at WoD. It's simply too convenient, allows you to bypass mobs and it destroys the chance of player encounters if they both have their mount. It also nullifies all the level design done on the ground by the devs.

please. stop spouting this load of garbage.

flying is not the source of WPvP's decline.

flying merely spotlighted how players dont enjoy being a part of something that has no reward, when compared to every other aspect of the game. there is flat out nothing worth the time waste commitment of WPvP.

stop trying to ban flying rather than fix the glaring problems with obvious solutions.

1. Flying lets people get away from WPvP action? implement a full on reward structure for WPvP. give players a reason to spend their time doing it.

2. Flying lets players skip mobs? make mobs more valuable. no need to have copious amounts of quest mobs that are meant as nothing but time wasters.

3. level design done on the ground? thats simply subjective. many enjoy the design perfectly fine from the air. i can enjoy the design every bit as much as the devs had hoped for from the air. i dont need forced grounding to accomplish that.

[HumbleDuck]

No it wasn't.

[Santti]

Back to reality: actually, it was the best expansion this game has ever seen.

I think it ranks among the worst ones.

Gameplay and balance was shit for many specs (Steady shot spam, anyone?). Many of the dungeons were just bland, and many were too similar with each other, to the point of some even having clearly copied hallways and rooms, just with a bit different decor (Auchindoun instances being most notable). The lack of decent catch-up gear turned many guilds into "recruitment guilds" for the better faring guilds (and the attunements only made it that much more worse, but were luckily removed as time went on).

But it wasn't all bad, of course. The lore and the setting was interesting (except Kael'thas and Illidan. Not a fan what they did to them). Some of the raids were awesome as well, most notably Karazhan. Really loved Zangarmarsh and Nagrand.

I liked the expansion back in the day, just like I enjoyed Vanilla. But I feel they are just kinda shit now.