(Elegy Novella) It seems the NE are officially an endangered species

[Isilarya]

Japanese and Korean, more accurately.


Culturally, nelves are sort of a blend of Japanese Shintoism and Norse and Celtic Paganism (Nordrassil & Teldrassil = Yggdrassil, Cenarius = Cernunnos).

not what i was specifically referring to.

China is Xenophonic, Nationalistic etc all the things he said and maintains an ENORMOUS population.

[Nathasil]

Dude come on this is a game. And i straight out pointed that that is how my belf feels, not necessary how i do, Jesus Christ.

So your argument is you are not a Nazi, but your character is, and you are totally fine with that?

I'm sorry if my words indulge too much "hatred" into this whole discussion, but i was not the first to bring up RL-examples of behaviour/ideology either. And i will refrain from posting here again, as i seem to lack the ability to laugh off sentences about genocide that you can read the exact same kind of everywhere all over the Internet, when it is NOT about a game.

But this thread is. And you are right, i should not take it so seriously. It's just not easy for me right now. Seeing how my favourite race in this game gets genocided and Ion feels the need to adress the "poor conflicted Horde players" in the Q&A to quench THEIR suffering is simply a bit too much right now.

[Bethrezen]

Still plenty of night elves to kill. But at least we're heading in the right direction for Zandalar's sake.

[Obelisk Kai]

So they're probably at the level of the Blood Elves, Gnomes, Worgen and Draenei now. I guess it just reinforces the parallel of Sylvanas being the second coming of Arthas. Just as the thalassian elves are now an endangered species following his rampage, the Night Elves are now in a similar boat.

This still means they will be functional as a race in a game and a valuable part of the Alliance, but they are greatly diminished and it will take many years (the hypothetical amount of time between WoW and a potential WoW 2 for example) for them to recover.

As far as I recall they have major population centres in Feralas, Moonglade and Val'Sharah. Those are the basis for their long climb back and REALLY should be protected.

Thinking of the wider narrative, I now doubt whether BFA is going to be a story beat for story beat retread of Mists of Pandaria. Back then when Jaina told Varian to 'dismantle the Horde', he refused. I simply cannot conceive of any circumstances under which Anduin could make a similar decision even if he wanted to, the Alliance is baying for blood.

Which means the faction war can't end with an Alliance victory, as nobody would believe or tolerate the consequences of an Alliance victory if the Horde was left unmolested again.

Either this will end with a stalemate or the Horde will win, but in victory Sylvanas will go too far and get challenged and overthrown, with her successor ending the war...or Sylvanas will have a heroic sacrifice against the void and her successor ends the war.

Basically an Alliance victory is the least likely outcome, as given the actions of the Warchief the only conceivable outcome of an Alliance victory is the end of the Horde...and gameplay reasons forbid that. And the end of the Horde wouldn't be a factionless, everyone can group with everyone paradise, it really means brutal occupations of Horde cities and likely temporary 'enslavement' of the populations to aid Alliance rebuilding, as well as the permanent garrisoning of their lands.

[Deleted]

I think... where they are going with this, just like in Cataclysm with the very specific destruction wrought upon the Nightelves by Deathwing and Azshara (Azshara did make and appearance in Darkshore, if you remember), maybe we can actually start to see a pattern forming here. And I don't mean the 'the writers hate nightelves'-pattern, but an in-story pattern.

So.. the Nightelves have a deal, have had it since shortly after the War of the Ancients. A deal to preserve Life and the Dream as the defenders of Hyjal (up to Ashenvale and Darkshore), which was the job of the Priestesses and Sentinels ('The Long Vigil') and the defenders of the Dream, which was the job of the Druids. This deal was filled with actual magic power in a way that gave the Nightelves abilities beyond their natural ones, as well as eternal life, until this magic was given into the spell to blow up Archimonde before he could drain the well underneath Nordrassil.
Since then, small bit by small bit their power and hold over their territories, which they defended according to their pact, important for the preservation of Life itself, has been chipped away. Partly because they opened up and sent some forces elsewhere (because that was, ultimately, also important so they could keep defending their territories at all) but partly also by simply being attacked, sometimes by the Legion (demons and scourge), sometimes by Old God forces and sometimes by the Horde. ... and sometimes because their Alliance allies told the adventurers that those Nightelves are unimportant and they should rather go kill some people in the Barrens... <.<

If we actually have a war on Life itself on our hands, wouldn't it be kind of logical that the force behind it all would make sure the Nightelves actually get wiped out? What I mean is, wouldn't a war on Life itself mean you need to eliminate the Nightelves as completely as you can? And this is what we've been seeing all this time, only didn't know it was more than just a 'coincidence' in all the other wars?

[ravenmoon]

So they're probably at the level of the Blood Elves, Gnomes, Worgen and Draenei now. I guess it just reinforces the parallel of Sylvanas being the second coming of Arthas. Just as the thalassian elves are now an endangered species following his rampage, the Night Elves are now in a similar boat.

This still means they will be functional as a race in a game and a valuable part of the Alliance, but they are greatly diminished and it will take many years (the hypothetical amount of time between WoW and a potential WoW 2 for example) for them to recover.

As far as I recall they have major population centres in Feralas, Moonglade and Val'Sharah. Those are the basis for their long climb back and REALLY should be protected.

Thinking of the wider narrative, I now doubt whether BFA is going to be a story beat for story beat retread of Mists of Pandaria. Back then when Jaina told Varian to 'dismantle the Horde', he refused. I simply cannot conceive of any circumstances under which Anduin could make a similar decision even if he wanted to, the Alliance is baying for blood.

Which means the faction war can't end with an Alliance victory, as nobody would believe or tolerate the consequences of an Alliance victory if the Horde was left unmolested again.

Either this will end with a stalemate or the Horde will win, but in victory Sylvanas will go too far and get challenged and overthrown, with her successor ending the war...or Sylvanas will have a heroic sacrifice against the void and her successor ends the war.

Basically an Alliance victory is the least likely outcome, as given the actions of the Warchief the only conceivable outcome of an Alliance victory is the end of the Horde...and gameplay reasons forbid that. And the end of the Horde wouldn't be a factionless, everyone can group with everyone paradise, it really means brutal occupations of Horde cities and likely temporary 'enslavement' of the populations to aid Alliance rebuilding, as well as the permanent garrisoning of their lands.

I think you are wrong about theirnpopulation.

I had the impression they were already at gnome/blood elf levels after cataclysm,

Cereals had no nightnelfmpopulation, the sentinel army were fighting Naga for a section of the campaign and to stop horde encroachment in the rest of the zone after losing so much in Ashenvale, Azshara, Stonetalon and Desolace- this was in cataclysm, that same army moves to defend teldrassils in the events you play out in the pre-patch., they weren't based there, there wasn't a civilian population, the sentinel army was there with a base for that campaign - night elf mobile bases are some of the best because they can erect fortresses by growing them.

Val'sharah lost most of its population to the nightmare, the largest night elf towns and occupied areas are swallowed by the nightmare as we clearly see. The biggest habitation are in shaladrassil, you see the corrupted towns both in the zone and the instance, and the refugees flood into Suramar where Thalyssra offers them refuge and they help her resistance in 7.0, there are few night elves left there after Legion.


The only source of night elf numbers I can now see are either somehow returning the Farondis to life and/or drawing some nightborne in like having the arcand'or fruit actually restore some nightborne back to night elves.

[Aucald]

Eeeh if you did the questline as Alliance, you'd know that they started in Ashenvale (Astranaar). Even there you saw tons of whisps and the NPCs mourned way to many dead. You then get systematically pushed back to to Darkshore and eventually bottled up at Darnassus.

This wasn't just a "nuke" that hit one city, this was a slaughtering campaign through almost the entire Nightelven countryside. Even Felwood saw Horde activity (hence the invasion force that came from the north).

I don't think *all* the wisps summoned by Malfurion are those of the freshly or newly dead, as it were - Saurfang refers to them as "ancestors," and Malfurion does the same thing in the Third War when he calls upon the wisps to rise and detonate Archimonde. Some of them are, of course, newly dead - we see them made in the Astranaar questline as you said, but many of the others are the more ancient ancestral spirits that have always been in and around Ashenvale and Hyjal.

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Don't forget that Teldrassil housed multiple cities and pretty much every other Night Elf zone had been attacked by the Horde. They got like Feathermoon Stronghold and maybe one or two other settlements left?

Feathermoon Stronghold is more or less a wreck thanks to the Cataclysm, but the Night Elves still have Talonbranch Glade, Greenwarden's Grove, the entirety of Hyjal, Moonglade, Thal'darah Grove, Starfall Village, and presumably still hold Eldre'thalas or Dire Maul. As well as a decently-sized territory in Outland.

[ravenmoon]

I don't think *all* the wisps summoned by Malfurion are those of the freshly or newly dead, as it were - Saurfang refers to them as "ancestors," and Malfurion does the same thing in the Third War when he calls upon the wisps to rise and detonate Archimonde. Some of them are, of course, newly dead - we see them made in the Astranaar questline as you said, but many of the others are the more ancient ancestral spirits that have always been in and around Ashenvale and Hyjal.

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Feathermoon Stronghold is more or less a wreck thanks to the Cataclysm, but the Night Elves still have Talonbranch Glade, Greenwarden's Grove, the entirety of Hyjal, Moonglade, Thal'darah Grove, Starfall Village, and presumably still hold Eldre'thalas or Dire Maul. As well as a decently-sized territory in Outland.

I think people are not updating their impressions of night elf numbers post WC3 or control. Night elves seemed numerous in wc3, but the legion invasion hit their numbers very hard, both living and wisp, this is what forced them to join thenalliance, such a proud and capable rsce would not have imagined such a move if the loss wasn't so great.

Cataclysm also took a huge toll, the horde invasion by Garrosh , and the devastation of the cataclysm affected them a lot, they were already on the brink then

We see them almost non existent in Legion in terms of providing an army, and what we see in pre-patch is all that is of them.

Hyjal and Moonglade are druid cenarion circle, not night elven, as long as it doesn't serve the alliance, Sylvannas won't trouble them I think. So is Greenwarden Grove and talonbranch , Val'sharah grove too I think

Dire Maul is controlled by the ogres according to Traveller, and besides the highborne were ejected from their city . Yes night elves kicked out again of somewhere that was theirs. The only night elf group to keep anything are the nightborne, because they are probably horde, and they just barely manage it

[Zulkhan]

No, the true tragedy is that elven athena isn't with us anymore. God i wish to see her react to that.

Given the way she reacted last time and the whole reason for why she isn't around anymore, the thought kind of disturbs me.

Either this will end with a stalemate or the Horde will win, but in victory Sylvanas will go too far and get challenged and overthrown, with her successor ending the war...or Sylvanas will have a heroic sacrifice against the void and her successor ends the war.

After the Old Soldier cinematic I'm also fairly convinced Saurfang is set up to die and claim his honorable death but in a way that actually matters and actually defines the course of history. It wouldn't surprise me if after being set up to clash against one another, Sylvanas and Saurfang end up to begrudgingly team up against some great evil and both die, one to claim his glorious death and the other as a form of atonement or greater sacrifice or something.

I had the impression they were already at gnome/blood elf levels after cataclysm

Yeah no, what the hell. Night Elves had one of the most solid civilizations on Azeroth, even though it endured hardships and occasional beatings. They weren't as great as they used to be but they weren't that much on the dirt either.

So your argument is you are not a Nazi, but your character is, and you are totally fine with that?

Are you aware these are fictional races and no one actually died, right?

[Arrashi]

Given the way she reacted last time and the whole reason for why she isn't around anymore, the thought kind of disturbs me.

*que Kaz speech*

"Every night i can feel my elves, my forest....even my whisps. The lore i lost. The relevance i lost. It won't. Stop. Hurting. Its like its still here."

Also, if sylvanas AND saurfang die, then who is left ?

[Zulkhan]

*que Kaz speech*

"Every night i can feel my elves, my forest....even my whisps. The lore i lost. The relevance i lost. It won't. Stop. Hurting. Its like its still here."

"The Blackfathom Pain"

Also, if sylvanas AND saurfang die, then who is left ?

Baine of course, who'll give birth to the Rainbow Horde.

[Obelisk Kai]

I think you are wrong about theirnpopulation.

I had the impression they were already at gnome/blood elf levels after cataclysm,

Cereals had no nightnelfmpopulation, the sentinel army were fighting Naga for a section of the campaign and to stop horde encroachment in the rest of the zone after losing so much in Ashenvale, Azshara, Stonetalon and Desolace- this was in cataclysm, that same army moves to defend teldrassils in the events you play out in the pre-patch., they weren't based there, there wasn't a civilian population, the sentinel army was there with a base for that campaign - night elf mobile bases are some of the best because they can erect fortresses by growing them.

Val'sharah lost most of its population to the nightmare, the largest night elf towns and occupied areas are swallowed by the nightmare as we clearly see. The biggest habitation are in shaladrassil, you see the corrupted towns both in the zone and the instance, and the refugees flood into Suramar where Thalyssra offers them refuge and they help her resistance in 7.0, there are few night elves left there after Legion.


The only source of night elf numbers I can now see are either somehow returning the Farondis to life and/or drawing some nightborne in like having the arcand'or fruit actually restore some nightborne back to night elves.

I think your impression is wrong and demonstrably so. Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Feralas, Val'Sharah, all teeming with Night Elves. Prior to this even they were clearly one of the more numerous races.

Common sense also suggests that they can't be at Blood Elf levels, because if they were prior to this, then they are dead after it. Such an event happening to a population on Blood Elf or Gnomish levels would not be survivable for them as a group. That is clearly not going to be the case. They have been brought down to the same level as many other Alliance and Horde races. But that is not the end, even if it is close to the end.

[Deleted]

Worse things have happened then less NEs

[Deleted]

How can they coexist? Simple. The Alliance leaders never have the balls to crush the Horde even when it lies broken at their feet.

[nerv234]

Not that I'm agreeing with the Lich Queen or anything, but Nelves are now on the same level as Gnomes, High Elves, Blood Elves, Draenei, and Darkspear Trolls. Not going to affect gameplay at all, and will barely affect the story as a whole.

So you think that Darkspears have the same numbers as Blood Elves? Good joke.
Blood elves probably replenished their numbers, the last big loss of population they had was Arthas and it may not look like but long time have passed.

[Granyala]

How can they coexist? Simple. The Alliance leaders never have the balls to crush the Horde even when it lies broken at their feet.

They can't even if they had balls of steel because Blizzard needs their little faction war and both factions intact.
That's why such wars are so tedious, because you never get proper consequences reflected in game and you never get a true winner.

[Isilrien]

The Highbourne rejoined and the Nightbourne became a different species than the NE they mutated, so it's not like the Nightbourne would be able to increase the NE numbers since they are not the same race.

Neither are humans and high elves, and yet...

[Black Jack]

No, the true tragedy is that elven athena isn't with us anymore. God i wish to see her react to that.

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Well here you go - nelves just got "getting nuked" part of japanese culture.

I dont know why but all i want to know is who elven athena is?

[steelballfc]

Well, on a similar matter, I still can't understand how those (at first) IMMORTAL BEINGS were still able to breed and reproduce. THe whole of Azeroth should be drowning under NElf population, even considering the tragedies in their History (like the Sundering and all that).

i mean their leaders (tyr & malf ) has been together for over 10k and i don't think they had sex.

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As long as Varian is cannon, it would never be.

where is med'an when you need him.

[Deleted]

Finally something noteworthy happened in WARcraft between the horde and alliance, stop being such fucking babies. It's not meant to be a feelgood show.