Swedish police gun down man with severe down syndrome holding toy gun

[Deleted]

Toy gun or real, it doesn't matter. Police have to protect civilians no matter what. This is really tragic, but then again what kind of family would allow to kid with mental issues to leave house..with toy gun in the pocket.. !?

[Sorcath]

USA is 22 times larger in terms of landmass, not population.

You take the averages of the whole country to even out extremes (both high and low). That makes the numbers accurate and valid.
The fact that you don't like them is quite irrelevant to the question at hand.

Even when comparing a city with roughly the same population density (Boston and Stockholm) You get a vastly higher number for the american city.
Boston has had 12 deaths during the 2010-2017 period whilst Stockholm has had 2 deaths since 1995. Can't find any data that goes further back at the moment for Stockholm.

USA has a massive problem with gun violence, not only pertaining to lethal police shootings. This is simply something that Sweden does not have.

My mistake, 31 times larger. No need to get personal, just proving a point that you're skewing numbers to fit narrative.

Interesting you mention Stockholm, the target of a mass terrorist attack in 2017 which killed 41 people. Admittedly, our record highest has been the Las Vegas shooting(59). So there goes that whole 1995 thing out the window.

Gun crime is more proportional to density than you're willing to accept. It is also relatively proportional given the same analytical reserve instead of throwing data to make the hypothesis function. Certainly, I will concede that the numbers are slightly elevated comparing the two, but let's not make this drastic and accuse the US of being anywhere on terms such like as Brazil, Congo, Somalia, etc.

[babyback]

Why shoot to kill? Why no warning shot first, or disarm with an arm/leg shot? Surely police should have good aim if they train weekly at shooting ranges to save lives just in cases like this.

Because hitting someone in the arm or leg is very hard and nearly impossible if the target is moving. If shot is missed you put yourself and anyone in the environment in more danger. If you fire for effect you aim for what is easy to hit. Most likely the torso.

People who say “aim for the leg” has probably never fired a weapon or never been in a situation were you had to. Police are trained to hit their target but not in arms or leg.

In this case I agree that they should’ve warned first. That’s how I was trained in the army if faced with a civilian being armed against you. Warning shot, then fire for effect.

[Forogil]

Interesting you mention Stockholm, the target of a mass terrorist attack in 2017 which killed 41 people.

Ehmm... What? It was 5 dead - and not even 41 wounded.

Admittedly, our record highest has been the Las Vegas shooting(59). So there goes that whole 1995 thing out the window.

Largest terrorist attack in the US since 1995? I remember flying from Logan airport outside Boston in September 2001.

Note that some of the worst terrorist attacks seem to use vehicles, not guns.

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In this case I agree that they should’ve warned first. That’s how I was trained in the army if faced with a civilian being armed against you. Warning shot, then fire for effect.

What if they moronically turned their weapon against you (mimicing your movements), and didn't show that they understood what you said?

[Yatagarasu]

Neither police nor victim are to blame in the situation, I would blame his parents/overseers for letting him go out with a toy gun.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

1. The police got reports of a person walking around with a weapon and went out with 3 squads.
2. It was between 03.00 and 03.30 in the middle of the might, it was dark.
3. They find a person and tell instructions, which he doesn’t follow.
4. They see a weapon in his hand.
5. He flails it around and/points it at the police.
6. Police are threatened by this and protect themselves.

The fact that they afterwards find out it’s a toy gun/gun replica and the man has Downs isn’t relevant. They couldn’t ID the person or if the gun was real or not.

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Because hitting someone in the arm or leg is very hard and nearly impossible if the target is moving. If shot is missed you put yourself and anyone in the environment in more danger. If you fire for effect you aim for what is easy to hit. Most likely the torso.

People who say “aim for the leg” has probably never fired a weapon or never been in a situation were you had to. Police are trained to hit their target but not in arms or leg.

In this case I agree that they should’ve warned first. That’s how I was trained in the army if faced with a civilian being armed against you. Warning shot, then fire for effect.

I wouldn’t do a warning shot if the person suddenly pointed his gun towards me, my collegues or other innocents.

[babyback]

Ehmm... What? It was 5 dead - and not even 41 wounded.


Largest terrorist attack in the US since 1995? I remember flying from Logan airport outside Boston in September 2001.

Note that some of the worst terrorist attacks seem to use vehicles, not guns.

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What if they moronically turned their weapon against you (mimicing your movements), and didn't show that they understood what you said?

You do have to assess the situation. I don’t know enough about what has really happened here and I am usually on the police’s side when it comes to shootings. If you shoot a warning shot when the gun man has Down’s syndrome which they easily should’ve seen. He’d most likely be scared and drop the gun.

As I said. I don’t know enough about what has happened.

In the police’s defense you can’t train for how you’ll react in a situation like this. A police officer is very unlikely to be faced in a situation like this during his career. Especially in most European countries. So there are very few who can prepare new recruits.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Toy gun or real, it doesn't matter. Police have to protect civilians no matter what. This is really tragic, but then again what kind of family would allow to kid with mental issues to leave house..with toy gun in the pocket.. !?

He "ran away" apparently.
And he wasn’t a kid, nor did he have "mental issues".
He was 20+ years old with Downs Syndrom, which the police couldn’t possiby identify in the dark from distance.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

The only data I could find regarding police shootings in Sweden indicated that since 2000, the number has been around an average of 20 per year. The Swedish police, in 2017, reported a total officer count of 19,741.

In the US, in 2017, there were 983 police shootings. There are 913,161 police in the US.

That means the % in Sweden (.001013 %) is only very, very slightly less than the US (.001081%). So, you'd be wrong about the "fraction of a percent for the US" being "quite a bit more of a fraction" than it is for Sweden.

Just saying.

OT: I cannot imagine how difficult a decision it is to make in that moment, but this is a tragedy no matter how you look at it.

Ugh... pesky facts being pesky again.

[babyback]

1. The police got reports of a person walking around with a weapon and went out with 3 squads.
2. It was between 03.00 and 03.30 in the middle of the might, it was dark.
3. They find a person and tell instructions, which he doesn’t follow.
4. They see a weapon in his hand.
5. He flails it around and/points it at the police.
6. Police are threatened by this and protect themselves.

The fact that they afterwards find out it’s a toy gun/gun replica and the man has Downs isn’t relevant. They couldn’t ID the person or if the gun was real or not.

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I wouldn’t do a warning shot if the person suddenly pointed his gun towards me, my collegues or other innocents.

I said in my previous post that I don’t know enough about the situation. But I do agree with you. You have to take a split second decision if you see a gun. But when the police responded to the call which I suppose was an armed person? They need to proceed with caution and maybe should’ve been able to assess the situation different and see that he had Down’s syndrome. But a person flailing with a gun is still a person flailing with a gun

[Lindon]

My mistake, 31 times larger. No need to get personal, just proving a point that you're skewing numbers to fit narrative.

Interesting you mention Stockholm, the target of a mass terrorist attack in 2017 which killed 41 people. Admittedly, our record highest has been the Las Vegas shooting(59). So there goes that whole 1995 thing out the window.

Gun crime is more proportional to density than you're willing to accept. It is also relatively proportional given the same analytical reserve instead of throwing data to make the hypothesis function. Certainly, I will concede that the numbers are slightly elevated comparing the two, but let's not make this drastic and accuse the US of being anywhere on terms such like as Brazil, Congo, Somalia, etc.

I seriously have problems understanding your thought process. We are talking about lethal police shootings not terrorist attacks, lethal criminal altercations or traffic accidents.
Are you going to bring up deaths by vending machines next?

The terrorist attack in Stockholm killed 5 people not 41 as you erroneously claimed.

I am comparing USA and Sweden. Never have I even mentioned Brazil, Congo or Somalia in any of my responses.
The data you find when comparing Sweden and USA in lethal police shootings is that the USA overtakes Sweden by an extreme amount. This is not really up for debate as this is a fact. Your dismissal of this is highly irrelevant to the question at hand.

[Najnaj]

One isolated case makes for a personal tragedy, not statistics.

[Shadowferal]

OK, clueless it is. https://forum.officer.com/forum/loca...-warning-shots

o gee...a forum.
You might as well have posted TV shit.

[stevenho]

o gee...a forum.
You might as well have posted TV shit.

What a poor way of admitting cluelessness