the intellectual dark web has become an anti intellectual movement

[Mormolyce]

No, it really doesn't It has many mechanisms, and while reaching a consensus is nice, it really has just about nothing to do with science or how it reaches its conclusions.

Peer review, for example, acts to provide different perspectives (i.e. not consensus) to the same issue. It means other people can provide critique (again, not consensus) of the work and its sources. Disconfirmation (or falsification) means scientists actively seek out ways to provide evidence against the prevailing theory. And then there are the remaining mechanisms - true experiments, empirical methodology, creating hypotheses and testing them, re-evaluating your theory based on new evidence, etc...

I am well aware of all of this.

I think you misunderstand what I mean when I say science operates by consensus. That doesn't mean that the majority is always right, it means that the consensus evolves as more is added to it, or changes if some of those falsification studies turn out correct. That's what consensus is.

I mean there have been times when the scientific community has resisted a change to its consensus, Max Planck once observed that "truth never triumphs, its opponents just die out". Or "science advances one funeral at a time". But that's a case of science behaving in a way it ideally shouldn't, because scientists are human and fallible.

Again, I think you already know all this, and you've gotten yourself into an internet-argument where you felt like disagreeing with that other guy because he was skeptical of climate science on the basis of science not being based on consensus.

For the record, I don't know who the poster I was responding to is, I actually skimmed his argument and cherry picked a sentence that stood out to me. So I wasn't even thinking about which side of the debate he was on, simply that his premise was wrong.

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I've never seen him outright deny it, but he's definitely thrown shade on it as the product of progressive environmentalists and the like while skirting around addressing the actual research.

Yes well if you're waiting for Peterson to say something outright and not hide in an obfuscating cloud of semi-plausible deniability you'll be there a long time.

[Barnabas]

climate change is a hoax from a marketing stand point. you are lying if you tell people buying your product helps the environment when it caused mass pollution to make it. then you have the environment impact after the product reaches the end of its life cycle.

[Perkunas]

I don't get why the right wing is obsessed with Harris all of a sudden. He hates Trump, believes in the wall of separation between church and state, believes in climate change, he's for increased taxes on the wealthy and increased social services. The only thing I can figure was his war with the PC crowd over his disdain for Islamic Fundamentalism. I mean despise religious fundamentalists of all stripes too but I doubt any right winger would ignore everything else I believe in and think me a champion of their cause.

[Moralgy]

Yes well if you're waiting for Peterson to say something outright and not hide in an obfuscating cloud of semi-plausible deniability you'll be there a long time.

It took like 6 months to show his real opinions on trans people, as shown in a video linked earlier in the thread, so I give it another few and he will be talking about it being a full on hoax.

[szechuan]

I don't get why the right wing is obsessed with Harris all of a sudden.

They somewhat seem like they maybe want to also Piggyback on Harris's popularity in the "Intellectual Debating community"? Harris is one of the infamous Four Horsemen.

But it definitely seems like it also has to do with his views on Muslims while also seemingly ignoring Harris's criticism of Christianity.

[Mormolyce]

It took like 6 months to show his real opinions on trans people, as shown in a video linked earlier in the thread, so I give it another few and he will be talking about it being a full on hoax.

You're misquoting him in that direct video of him speaking!

Besides, all the words he uses aren't normal human English words, they're special Peterson words that mean the opposite of their usual meaning whenever Peterson decides they do, and you are stupid for not knowing that.

[Endus]

climate change is a hoax from a marketing stand point. you are lying if you tell people buying your product helps the environment when it caused mass pollution to make it. then you have the environment impact after the product reaches the end of its life cycle.

...

Marketing for products has fuck-all to do with climate change science. Completely unrelated things.

[Perkunas]

They somewhat seem like they maybe want to also Piggyback on Harris's popularity in the "Intellectual Debating community"? Harris is one of the infamous Four Horsemen.

But it definitely seems like it also has to do with his views on Muslims while also seemingly ignoring Harris's criticism of Christianity.

Yeah, I saw some Trumper talking about Hitchens and I was laughing my ass off because he HATED right-wing enablers of theocracy not to mention "He remarked that those who wanted to run American like a corporation, “America, Inc,” had a “whiff of fascism.”

[Zubacz]

It really doesn't matter if he says it personally or just shares a link that talks about it. The point is that his words or retweets do not add any credibility to Climate Change Denying.

Yes, they don't "dd any credibility to Climate Change Denying" because neither he or the people in the video he linked deny climate change. What are you talking about?

[Thrive]

It's the Trump effect. They jump on Peterson's dick because he "tells it like it is" despite the dubious nature of his findings and assertions.

"Oh, Peterson is telling those uppity women folk what-for? My oh my, he must be right about EVERYTHING!"

It really isn't. The entire Trump election and everything surrounding it was a counter culture to the years of gender and group politics. This is what happens when it becomes acceptable to break into tribalism, and the liberals where the worst offenders of that for years. It's unfortunate it's gotten to this extent, but unfortunately extremism breeds extremism. The left and the right are both literally breaking down into insanity and everyone is too scared to go independent.

[Barnabas]

...

Marketing for products has fuck-all to do with climate change science. Completely unrelated things.

it has everything to do with it. they omit certain things like water pollution from solar panels. it is never factored into reports about energy return. one average you lose a few months per solar panel. its dishonest and part of what fuels why climate change isn't taken seriously. even nanotech is a marketing nightmare. it gives a false sense of perception to people then they realize they've been lied to so they attack the science. it's how all of this works.

[Endus]

it has everything to do with it. they omit certain things like water pollution from solar panels. it is never factored into reports about energy return. one average you lose a few months per solar panel. its dishonest and part of what fuels why climate change isn't taken seriously. even nanotech is a marketing nightmare. it gives a false sense of perception to people then they realize it's bullshit so they attack the science.

Anyone who isn't taking climate science seriously because of that has no clue what they're doing, because climate science has next to nothing to do with the marketing of solar panels.

This is like trying to claim that, because juice companies sometimes say "no sugar added" when they're adding artificial sweeteners instead, biology is wrong and nobody knows how plants work. It's that level of nonsense.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Yes, they don't "dd any credibility to Climate Change Denying" because neither he or the people in the video he linked deny climate change. What are you talking about?

There's a list of climate change deniers that Peterson has retweeted. Richard Lindzen is on that list.

[Barnabas]

Anyone who isn't taking climate science seriously because of that has no clue what they're doing, because climate science has next to nothing to do with the marketing of solar panels.

This is like trying to claim that, because juice companies sometimes say "no sugar added" when they're adding artificial sweeteners instead, biology is wrong and nobody knows how plants work. It's that level of nonsense.

yeah but it influences people. many people simply don't have the time you do. so don't try to dismiss that information marketers give people as being invalid to not influence people.

[Zubacz]

There's a list of climate change deniers that Peterson has retweeted. Richard Lindzen is on that list.

Oh really? Can you provide an example of a tweet or retweet from JP that denies climate change?

[Deleted]

That's your subjective opinion

I'm exposing my motives, when confronted with an unjustified command. So... yes, duh.

[stevenho]

Of scientists who review the actual literature, the sole, only group of scientists who dispute it across all professions are the geologists who provide estimates for where to obtain fossil fuels from.

You can try and put labels on and dismiss anyone who doesn't echo your official "correct" narrative.
But it doesn't change the fact that not only there is no consensus, but there also is no PROOF.

[Kraenen]

Consensus isn't a goal, nor is it a tool; it's a natural and expected outcome. If you CAN'T reach consensus, THAT demonstrates the science is unclear. In cases where consensus IS established, the science IS clear..

Sure, I pretty much agree with most of this point. It looks like you understand science isn't based in consensus to the point it's "literally" the only way it operates (which is the whole point I was responding to).

[Kraenen]

...

Marketing for products has fuck-all to do with climate change science. Completely unrelated things.

I think it's really just this hyperbole that I'm arguing against with you and others.

When you say marketing and climate change science are "completely unrelated" you're going to lose by default when an argument appears concerning public support for climate change science that waxes and wanes with the way products are marketed.

[JohnBrown1917]

It really isn't. The entire Trump election and everything surrounding it was a counter culture to the years of gender and group politics. This is what happens when it becomes acceptable to break into tribalism, and the liberals where the worst offenders of that for years. It's unfortunate it's gotten to this extent, but unfortunately extremism breeds extremism. The left and the right are both literally breaking down into insanity and everyone is too scared to go independent.

Conservatism as a counter-culture is laughable, they held 2 branches in the US government before 2016. Not to even mention the conservative democrats(blue dogs).