Nightborne elves reaction on Burning of Teldrassil.

[CaptainV]

I think their stance on the matter would be rather complex.

While they are Kal'dorei in cousin status only they see the Kal'dorei as a primative version of themselves, to them they define civlisation and the Kal'dorei are just essentially savages.

I think the honest answer would be their stance would be indifference.

Yes, the Night Elves helped their people be free, but they also shunned them for their ways and path long ago even before the rebellion against Azshara.

In short, they likely see the entire thing as a mess taking neither side and abstaining from the morality of it all.

[Thestuff1992]

like, that doesn't really tell us her feelings on the issue though.

not immediately leaving the horde doesn't really say anything. saurfang didn't either, and you see his internal struggle played out. eventually he does decide to leave the horde. thalyssra just isn't given a chance to show her thought process.

Feel like that would’ve been shown at this point. At the very very least, when she’s in stormwind she would express some sort of disapproval especially with Saurfang right there. Either way, sure it took Saurfang a little while but realistically she would’ve said something by the time she went through stormwind or during that time.

Expressing debelief and dissatisfaction about the burning after she runs through stormwind and talks about killing alliance to break out prisoners would be pretty weird.

They could dedicate some story to Thalryssa and her thoughts but after the sw scenario and war campaign it’s pretty apparent she doesn’t care currently. Something would’ve been said by now especially considering where we left off on beta and still nothing.

[Deleted]

It's not a matter of war anymore, destroying a defenseless city full of civilians and zero actual military is evil.

Hiroshima and nagasaki dont agree with you.

[Wolfie of Medivh]

understand this: NONE of these allied races are EVER going to get any lore again. THey're cosmetic changes, and Blizz is giving a little intro story to each, but in the end, they're never going to talk about them ever.

[Deleted]

Paladins are zealots, why wouldn't she be okay if she believed the horde was worth fighting for, it is something that has been hinted in the Argus campaign.



She didn't particularly lie but wasn't entirely truthful either, personal biases do play a part here, Liadrin diminishes the night elf achievements just as the night elves diminish the blood elves. It is tit for tat, neither race really like each other and in small interactions it shows as it should.

If blizz would actually show the rift between different races more nuanced this whole faction conflict wouldn't look as pathetic as it does right now.

I just don't agree that paladins should be zealots for whichever leader their faction has at the moment. If anything, it's the Light they should be zealous for. And unless M'uru has a very different idea than the rest of the Naaru, they don't actually like what Sylvanas is doing. On the other hand, they could just have Liadrin play her role, because that's what's necessary in the long run, so they just let her do what she thinks is right.Which would also be kind of nice, because they've been not very good with that lately. The Naaru I mean. ^^

I think in her lie to Thalyssra specifically there was even more than just the normal bias, maybe there was some lying to herself involved too. She was one of the big advocates of elven supremacy and hiding away before and during the Third War. The way I see it, her guilt is making her project a lot of this onto the Nightelves and also the humans before that (ofc the Humans kind of made her anger justified later with Garithos). I don't think she has admitted that to herself yet. Maybe she'll have a soul-searching session at some point. But I don't have too much hope for that, it seems the only one having soul searching sessions and feeling anything like open guilt about their own actions is Saurfang.

And I agree about showing the rift between the races better would do a lot for explaining some things. Especially with a little more nuance and not only showing almost insane examples of hatred and futile acts of revenge.
They did try this within the factions, at least with some interactions. There were a few quests Alliance side in Ashenvale and Stonetalon where Nightelves and Gnomes had to work together and the rift between their cultures was showing and the way they tried to overcome this. But they way this grows in opposing factions, if you don't have contact and keep harboring hard feelings, just because you only hear bad stuff, they don't actually usually show this. At some point, it just kind of.. explodes. ^^

[derpkitteh]

Feel like that would’ve been shown at this point. At the very very least, when she’s in stormwind she would express some sort of disapproval especially with Saurfang right there. Either way, sure it took Saurfang a little while but realistically she would’ve said something by the time she went through stormwind or during that time.

Expressing debelief and dissatisfaction about the burning after she runs through stormwind and talks about killing alliance to break out prisoners would be pretty weird.

They could dedicate some story to Thalryssa and her thoughts but after the sw scenario and war campaign it’s pretty apparent she doesn’t care currently. Something would’ve been said by now especially considering where we left off on beta and still nothing.

the stormwind scenario is killing alliance military, not civilians.

i don't really see why she'd have a problem doing that. just because there was a horrible atrocity committed, doesn't mean the war's not still going on.

she's there on a mission. i as a player don't like being in service of sylvanas anymore than saurfang does, yet i still have to play it out silently.

[Makabreska]

understand this: NONE of these allied races are EVER going to get any lore again. THey're cosmetic changes, and Blizz is giving a little intro story to each, but in the end, they're never going to talk about them ever.

And what do you have to support these claims?

[looorg]

And what do you have to support these claims?

How much have you heard of the Pandas since MOP? I'm not saying we are never going to hear from them again but we probably are not going to hear to much about them in the foreseeable future.

[Makabreska]

How much have you heard of the Pandas since MOP? I'm not saying we are never going to hear from them again but we probably are not going to hear to much about them in the foreseeable future.

People keep claiming that allied races are "just cosmetic". However, in case of Nightborn, they come with huge lore baggage and nicely fleshed out characters (other races also bring their lore to the table). Why on earth Blizz would not use that in future story? So again, why people are so extremely convinced that allied races will be forgotten, when they ALREADY take part in BfA events?

[Kathranis]

As for the Blood Elven vs. Night Elven forces that arrived to support the Nightfallen insurgency in Legion, I would say they are pretty much even. Blood Elven Pyrestar golems are matched by the Night Elven ancient defenders deployed, they've got a similar detachment of siege equipment, as well as similar cavalry and infantry. All in all, Alliance vs. Horde commitment to Thalyssra seemed essentially 50/50 to me.

I think you can boil down their choice in allegiance pretty easily.

The Nightborne share a kinship with the blood elves that's far deeper than anything they'd ever feel with the night elves. They're both races descended from the Highborne, brought low by magical addiction and demonic oppression, and are both mistrusted and condescended to by their kaldorei cousins.

And while Tyrande and the night elves only gave their support reluctantly, the blood elves welcomed them with open arms and were eager to lend them aid, and made efforts to open lines of communication and bring them into the fold while the night elves only tacitly tolerated them.

The nightborne have no real stakes in this war as of yet, and will most likely follow the lead of the blood elves. I'm actually quite curious to see how the blood elf story will play out, if it plays out at all, because they've never had strong ties to the traditional tribal Horde elements. They are also the most closely allied with the Forsaken, though apart from their shared tragedy at the hands of the Scourge and their past pact as members of the Alliance of Lordaeron, they don't seem to get along especially well.

Generally, I think it's very unlikely that the blood elves as a whole will support Sylvanas; Lor'themar already distrusted her, despite their history, and he was even on the verge of defecting from the Horde before the purge of Dalaran. If Lor'themar wasn't willing to support Garrosh, I don't know why he'd support Sylvanas.

That being said, there are certainly a number of blood elves who bear grudges towards the night elves and the Alliance due to their uneasy history. The exile of the void elves certainly wouldn't have helped mend those fences. Garrosh always seemed to be able to find hardline blood elf supporters like Thalen Songweaver and Fanlyr Silverthorn.

[looorg]

People keep claiming that allied races are "just cosmetic". However, in case of Nightborn, they come with huge lore baggage and nicely fleshed out characters (other races also bring their lore to the table). Why on earth Blizz would not use that in future story? So again, why people are so extremely convinced that allied races will be forgotten, when they ALREADY take part in BfA events?

I do believe they'll be part of BFA, I'm just not sure beyond that. Sort of like how the Pandas was big in MOP but after that have been somewhat absent. Sure they are there, we see their emissaries in the cities and so but they don't really pay any part it seems in the respective factions story, they don't seem to take part in anything. Have their been any pandas in cinematic or stories after MOP? Can we see any say during the Battle of Lordaeron?

What Wolfie said, if I'm not mistaken is that they won't be heard from again after the current batch of content which is BFA. The allied races are after all a part of BFA. It's just if you pre-ordered you could start playing with them way earlier.

The Void Elf might be the exception depending on if Alleria lives at the end of the expansion or not.

[Aucald]

I think you can boil down their choice in allegiance pretty easily.

The Nightborne share a kinship with the blood elves that's far deeper than anything they'd ever feel with the night elves. They're both races descended from the Highborne, brought low by magical addiction and demonic oppression, and are both mistrusted and condescended to by their kaldorei cousins.

And while Tyrande and the night elves only gave their support reluctantly, the blood elves welcomed them with open arms and were eager to lend them aid, and made efforts to open lines of communication and bring them into the fold while the night elves only tacitly tolerated them.

The nightborne have no real stakes in this war as of yet, and will most likely follow the lead of the blood elves. I'm actually quite curious to see how the blood elf story will play out, if it plays out at all, because they've never had strong ties to the traditional tribal Horde elements. They are also the most closely allied with the Forsaken, though apart from their shared tragedy at the hands of the Scourge and their past pact as members of the Alliance of Lordaeron, they don't seem to get along especially well.

Generally, I think it's very unlikely that the blood elves as a whole will support Sylvanas; Lor'themar already distrusted her, despite their history, and he was even on the verge of defecting from the Horde before the purge of Dalaran. If Lor'themar wasn't willing to support Garrosh, I don't know why he'd support Sylvanas.

That being said, there are certainly a number of blood elves who bear grudges towards the night elves and the Alliance due to their uneasy history. The exile of the void elves certainly wouldn't have helped mend those fences. Garrosh always seemed to be able to find hardline blood elf supporters like Thalen Songweaver and Fanlyr Silverthorn.

I was more referring to the consternation concerning material support, and whether or not Tyrande's matched that of the Sin'dorei represented by Liadrin and Rommath. In terms of diplomacy and overall friendliness the Sin'dorei were head and shoulders above the Kaldorei - with Tyrande being very belittling toward the Shal'dorei in general and Thalyssra in specific. Material support was pretty equal, all in all. Diplomacy, on the other hand, has the Blood Elves as being friendly and underscoring a similarity between the Shal'dorei plight and that of the Sin'dorei, where Tyrande compared Thalyssra to Azshara and called the Nightborne "mana addicts" in relative privacy.

[Wolfie of Medivh]

And what do you have to support these claims?

It took 3 expansions to get any new Draenei lore, 4 to get any new BElf lore, 3 expansions in and we've gotten no new Pandaren lore. Until Legion we didn't get any new DK or Monk lore (And let's face it, Legion is a lore dump.)

Blizzard's track record is... not good.

[Powerogue]

They've still got night elf refugees in Shal'aran.

It would not surprise me in the slightest if they volunteered to take a few more, even against Sylvanas's wishes.

Sylvanas: What are you doing? These are members of the alliance!
Thalyssra: They are refugees who lost their home. It was that compassion from the horde in our time of need that is why we stand with you at all.
Sylvanas: Well, what if they turn on you? Could you withstand an attack from the inside of your precious sanctum? Think of the damage they could deal to your people!
Thalyssra: Like what? Burning our tree?
Sylvanas: ...
Thalyssra: That's what I thought. We are done here. Farewell, warchief.

It took 3 expansions to get any new Draenei lore, 4 to get any new BElf lore, 3 expansions in and we've gotten no new Pandaren lore. Until Legion we didn't get any new DK or Monk lore (And let's face it, Legion is a lore dump.)

Blizzard's track record is... not good.

They put in new stories with certain characters when it makes sense. Last expansion was focused on classes, so we got DK and monk lore. This upcoming expansion seems to focus on faction conflict, so we can expect more race lore as faction leaders become our main cast.

[ausoin]

Here's where we try to apply our own morals on a question regarding a fictional people, in a fictional world... but please continue to argue with everyone who doesn't see it your way.

Lol, we had a book called "War crimes".

There in no moral in genocide.

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Hiroshima and nagasaki dont agree with you.

Allies warned the citizens to evacuate.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Probably "They deserved it, they slept in their dens during important wars, scorned blood elves and were mean to us"

Or they could be horrified at the thought of children being burned alive like the rest of us? Regardless of politics?

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Its war, and they dont really care for the night elves.

Decent people care about children being burned alive, regardless of politics, even in war time.

[Deleted]

"We will not join the world as conquerors." : )))))

You should never trust an elf. It's literally the solution to every post in this thread, once you get that into your head, your life will get better.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Don’t think they care. Won’t spoil anything but on beta it was very obvious they don’t care, especially Thalyssra

Thalyssra also is on board to immediately start a war against people that helped her and her people. While I'll argue that the way they forshadowed nightborne becoming horde was sufficient, Thalyssra immedately being on board for a war for shit and giggles and not saying a word soured me on her character alot. I mean when they are introduced to the Horde as allied factions, I personally would've run for the hills after witnessing Sylvanas making her speech. Only saving grace for nightborne currently is Occuleth, just love the guy.

The question is if this is a deliberate choice for their story or just the side-effect of blizzard's writing and arranging of ingame set pieces being complete and utter dog-shit. She might also just be another character hit with the [The Stick of Retardation], to make the current plot work.

[Makabreska]

You should never trust an elf. It's literally the solution to every post in this thread, once you get that into your head, your life will get better.

Avatar checks out

The question is if this is a deliberate choice for their story or just the side-effect of blizzard's writing and arranging of ingame set pieces being complete and utter dog-shit. She might also just be another character hit with the [The Stick of Retardation], to make the current plot work.

I think (hope) it will be like with Saurfang. Silent during the burning, but will have it's moment later. The conflict of interests there is just too big.

[mickybrighteyes]

They've still got night elf refugees in Shal'aran.

aren't those night elves who have been on the broken isles rather than those affiliated with teldrassil?