Christie Golden Can't Write Powerful Women

[Cyram]

It's a problem I see in a lot of literature unfortunately; where an author has trouble writing a powerful woman, they either write them like a man or like a petulant child. Thinking back on the three powerful women Christie Golden has had the honor of writing for, they all behave relatively the same and it's all pretty unbecoming. And now that she's working for Blizzard as a writer for the game and not just the novels, a lot of the characters have gone downhill.

#1: Tyrande Whisperwind
She was a main character in War Crimes, acting as the Alliance's prosecution against Garrosh Hellscream in his trial. She lost her temper easily, over-reacted to not getting her way, and did not at all come off as a thousands-of-years-old priestess. I'm surprised she didn't stomp her feet and slam doors, to be honest.

#2: Jaina
Jaina's had it rough for a long time, but she's always taken her duties with the Kirin Tor and Dalaran very seriously. Up until she didn't get her way in Legion and the other council members out-voted her. So she threw a fit and ran away. Can't get what I want? Then I don't want anything at all!

#3: Sylvanas
Arguably one of the most intelligent leaders (devious too!) She's also undead, and the undead have trouble feeling emotions, Sylvanas included if you read her bits in War Crimes. But suddenly she can be angered to the point of burning down her political advantage? It just seems too out-of-character for her.


Are there any other characters that have been turned into emotion-fueled children that lash out when they don't get their way? Or am I seeing patterns where there aren't any?

#1 - Tyrande's always been emotional and way too attached to two things: Elune and Malfurion, ever since Warcraft 3 she's been like that... and I actually like it better than the weird pacifist, almost passive ways she and the nelves had during most of WoW.

#2 - I agree to an extent. You gotta put it into context - Jaina'd been holding a grudge against the Horde, and all of a sudden Dalaran switches and allows the people who killed her family and Theramore to be back there. It would've been bad if she put her hatred aside... she's endured quite a lot of bad shit. The other route would've been becoming an enemy of the Horde and the Alliance.

#3 - She wasn't angered, she was cornered because she underestimated the strength of the Night Elves and she thought that Malfurion's fall alone would break their spirit. The burning of Teldrassil was her winging the situation... and it worked, at least judging by the cries and the run make up of Delaryn on that short.

I think the problem here is that people still see women as emotional wrecks but fail to see that emotions have also been part of most men's narratives in Warcraft, as well. Arthas got his unholy pants on a twist because a woman was stalling his conquest of Silvermoon so he tortured her and turned her into his personal ghostly slave, for example... but no one says he's an emotion-fueled children lashing out.

[Toppy]

Why do woman have to be written as emotionless to be strong? If a male character shows emotion, is he weak?

The whole premise of this thread seems to be something that attempts to call out allegations of sexism, but in reality perpetuates sexists ideas itself.

Golden always writes their females as overwhelmingly emotional is the thing; its not they are emotional, its that they are slaves to their emotions.

[Life-Binder]

Don't forget having Sylvanas slaughter her own people for the first time all for wanting to be with their living families.

traitors .

[Deleted]

#1: Tyrande Whisperwind
She was a main character in War Crimes, acting as the Alliance's prosecution against Garrosh Hellscream in his trial. She lost her temper easily, over-reacted to not getting her way, and did not at all come off as a thousands-of-years-old priestess. I'm surprised she didn't stomp her feet and slam doors, to be honest.

#2: Jaina
Jaina's had it rough for a long time, but she's always taken her duties with the Kirin Tor and Dalaran very seriously. Up until she didn't get her way in Legion and the other council members out-voted her. So she threw a fit and ran away. Can't get what I want? Then I don't want anything at all!

#3: Sylvanas
Arguably one of the most intelligent leaders (devious too!) She's also undead, and the undead have trouble feeling emotions, Sylvanas included if you read her bits in War Crimes. But suddenly she can be angered to the point of burning down her political advantage? It just seems too out-of-character for her.

#1: Tyrande Whisperwind
Haven't read it so i wont pretend to know anything about it.

#2: Jaina
Golden didn't have anything to do with that bit tho.

#3: Sylvanas
Golden said on twitter during all the outrage over this that she hadn't had anything to do with this decision or any of the Warbringers.
Also remember Sylvanas has done the same before in Gilneas so it isn't really out of character.

[Voidism]

And again guys.

Golden DIDN'T write the Teldrassil thing.

[Toppy]

And again guys.

Golden DIDN'T write the Teldrassil thing.

This is criticism being leveled at stuff prior to Teld, so dont know what you're going on about.

[omarxz11]

they are emotional thats a fact no sexist kid , otherwise you hypocrite

[Powerogue]

Are there any other characters that have been turned into emotion-fueled children that lash out when they don't get their way? Or am I seeing patterns where there aren't any?

I can think of a few. It's not a "female character writing" problem, it's a "characters that provoke conflict as a means to make the story interesting" "problem".



The World of Warcraft would be extremely boring if everyone chilled out, went to a therapist, and talked about their problems.

[Ventrexian]

And again guys.

Golden DIDN'T write the Teldrassil thing.

She did write cycle of hatred though so lets not pretend this hasn't been a problem before... I still cringe whenever I recall how much of the book was just listening to how women can be amazing mages just like men.

[tacoloco]

No. Just not being a typical front line cannon fodder. Stop with your PC shit in games. Smart and powerful leaders will be in the back doing their higher level work. So what's wrong with that? It would make her into a great and powerful hero and most of all very believable. Don't you get it already? The forced way doesn't work.

There's nothing wrong with her being a front line hero.

[WoWGoneBad]

This is the same Christie golden who killed off Mara Jade in Star Wars Legends without even consulting Timothy Zhan about it. After reading about 5 of her books I have decided not to follow this writer anymore.

[Geeky]

It's a problem I see in a lot of literature unfortunately; where an author has trouble writing a powerful woman, they either write them like a man or like a petulant child. Thinking back on the three powerful women Christie Golden has had the honor of writing for, they all behave relatively the same and it's all pretty unbecoming. And now that she's working for Blizzard as a writer for the game and not just the novels, a lot of the characters have gone downhill.

#1: Tyrande Whisperwind
She was a main character in War Crimes, acting as the Alliance's prosecution against Garrosh Hellscream in his trial. She lost her temper easily, over-reacted to not getting her way, and did not at all come off as a thousands-of-years-old priestess. I'm surprised she didn't stomp her feet and slam doors, to be honest.

#2: Jaina
Jaina's had it rough for a long time, but she's always taken her duties with the Kirin Tor and Dalaran very seriously. Up until she didn't get her way in Legion and the other council members out-voted her. So she threw a fit and ran away. Can't get what I want? Then I don't want anything at all!

#3: Sylvanas
Arguably one of the most intelligent leaders (devious too!) She's also undead, and the undead have trouble feeling emotions, Sylvanas included if you read her bits in War Crimes. But suddenly she can be angered to the point of burning down her political advantage? It just seems too out-of-character for her.


Are there any other characters that have been turned into emotion-fueled children that lash out when they don't get their way? Or am I seeing patterns where there aren't any?

So you are a literary expert that has penned several stories with strong female characters?

[Logwyn]

I'm well aware of the flaws of Tolkien, even in his more obscure and scholarly works (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc.) but I just find it unbelievably cringe-worthy that you people are making these threads. Christie Golden can't write powerful female characters? She can't write at all. There shouldn't be discussions about WoW writing because it's just too bad. It's a non-issue. Trying to have an earnest conversation about what is essentially stories for 12 year olds is just sad.

Really? I guess we have to throw out the following then too: Arabian Nights, Robinson Crusoe, Gulliver's Travels, Ivanhoe, The Three Musketeers, David Copperfield, A Tale of Two Cities, Great Expectations, Through the Looking-Glass, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, The Jungle Book, White Fang, Anne of Green Gables among others!

[gobio]

I'm not sure I even agree that a powerful women who "just behaves like a man" is a problem. It's hard to give a specifically feminine order in the military, for instance. Orders are orders, military decisions are military decisions. I don't think of Angela Merkel as especially "feminine" and I certainly didn't think of Margaret Thatcher that way. Their feminine sides are probably sedate, not seen in public very often. And on the compassionate side: what, men can't be compassionate?

I certainly agree that you can't argue that a character in a shared universe represents a failure on the part of an individual writer; the problem is having a shared universe at all, which is always going to lead to wild creative inconsistencies.

I'm somewhat resistant to calls that "this goes against such and such's character" as well--going against character might make us upset in a book but in fact it is very common in real life. Mood is extremely hard to reflect well in fiction but it often leads to wildly different actions in real life.

I agree 100% for real world novel or battlefield games etc... but this is a fantasy game setting. Which they could borrow real life setting, OR, they could go full fantasy, like baulder's gate (forgotten realm) dark elves...

Especially if you are talking a bout a strong women EVIL character.

- you don't have to be physically strong. dark elfs in forgotten realm are blessed by spider god to cast powerful spells.
- the negative emotional trait by women can be used to make the character strong, no less than the negative emotional trait by men. Like the dark elf matriarchy, which worship physical / emotional torture, cunning, deception, etc... You can easily write strong female evil characters that way.

[Sastank]

99% of MMOC can't write meaningful discussion threads nor constructive criticism.

[Zyky]

It's a problem I see in a lot of literature unfortunately; where an author has trouble writing a powerful woman, they either write them like a man or like a petulant child. Thinking back on the three powerful women Christie Golden has had the honor of writing for, they all behave relatively the same and it's all pretty unbecoming. And now that she's working for Blizzard as a writer for the game and not just the novels, a lot of the characters have gone downhill.

#1: Tyrande Whisperwind
She was a main character in War Crimes, acting as the Alliance's prosecution against Garrosh Hellscream in his trial. She lost her temper easily, over-reacted to not getting her way, and did not at all come off as a thousands-of-years-old priestess. I'm surprised she didn't stomp her feet and slam doors, to be honest.

#2: Jaina
Jaina's had it rough for a long time, but she's always taken her duties with the Kirin Tor and Dalaran very seriously. Up until she didn't get her way in Legion and the other council members out-voted her. So she threw a fit and ran away. Can't get what I want? Then I don't want anything at all!

#3: Sylvanas
Arguably one of the most intelligent leaders (devious too!) She's also undead, and the undead have trouble feeling emotions, Sylvanas included if you read her bits in War Crimes. But suddenly she can be angered to the point of burning down her political advantage? It just seems too out-of-character for her.


Are there any other characters that have been turned into emotion-fueled children that lash out when they don't get their way? Or am I seeing patterns where there aren't any?

You realize Golden wasn't responsible for anything you're claiming right?

Tyrande in War Crimes she wrote, but she didn't act in any manner that you're claiming in the book. She had no part in the Legion portrayal of Tyrande.

Jaina, she wasn't on the writing team at all for Legion.

Sylvanas, in terms of burning the tree, Golden has come out and said she had nothing to do with the writing of the Burning of Teldrassil, just the Alliance novella and Before the Storm. She worked on parts of the story in BFA, but she didn't touch the Burning of Teldrasil or the cinematics/animatics(Warbringers).

[Kyphael]

More like Christie Gold can't write ANY characters, unless she has a very specific outline from Blizzard.

[gobio]

99% of MMOC can't write meaningful discussion threads nor constructive criticism.

Imagine if blizzard stop paying money for writer and ask community for stories, they will get 99% shit too. What is your point?

[Tome]

No, it's not. Also, it wasn't because she was angry. But because she realized capturing tree is not enough to broke NE spirit.

But gives an enough anger boost from the rest of the Alliance. It was rather stupid to burn it down. No “tactical master plan” behind it.

It just makes the Alliance bond even stronger, and attack twice as hard.

[Necroxis]

Everything is Christie Golden's fault because the team of people, who write the story, wrote a story, of which she had no involvement in (Warbringers), is something I subjectively dislike.

What a constructive thread.

And people wonder why random criticism from people online are ignored by writers.

Get a new scapegoat.