We need to have hope and be patient with blizzard

[Arrashi]

*whisper*
the art department are not just comics

Maybe...maybe...but look at Dat face, and tell me that deserved any kind of pay. Its like someone drew comic based on Gmod videos from few years ago.

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Looks fine to me

Maybe if it was drawn by 5 year old it would be fine.

[The Stormbringer]

Hope? No hope.

PEEEEACE? NOOOO PEEEEACE.

[Kwento]

Looks fine to me

You cannot be serious...

[Aeula]

And yet here you are posting on the lore section on the website about the game that will never have a good story, seems to me that if something had a bad story I wouldn't bother wasting my energy talking about it

Story is a big part of gaming for me. I'm invested in WoW and thus I'm invested in the story. Not because of how good the story is but because playing the game without caring about lore feels pretty horrible.

[Malikath]

No you don't. You can quit playing, life will be just fine. Blizzard doesn't deserve your loyalty for anything. If you don't enjoy the game or story anymore just quit.

this, for the past 3 years i did.
yet my stupid ass is here because BfA might be interesting, class design still looks like the gutted WoD set-up.

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*whisper*
the art department are not just comics

yeah, they're also the shaman class lead.
>no changes from wrath to mop other then cosmetic spell effects

[JacobusRex]

#Hazzikostas_Isn't_An_Arrogant_Corporate_Tool_!








... #sarcasm

[bash the fash]

is this post the lore version of 'it's beta, they'll fix it!!' when they never do? lol

[JacobusRex]

is this post the lore version of 'it's beta, they'll fix it!!' when they never do? lol

or make it worse... At the end of Legion, they had one real job... transfer the stuff we've gotten used to into abilities/talents that are comfortable. They couldn't even do that under Hazzikostas, the arrogant bastard.

[Wildberry]

Horde has lost Garrosh, Nazgrim, Saurfang Jr., and Varimathras (which is kind of a stretch).

Yeah, real funny leaving out WCII characters there. Especially when we have cities and landmarks named after them and they're referenced in quest text as being heroes of the Horde.

You're not biased at all!

It's happened once why are you so dramatic

"It's happened once." Wew lad, remember that time you said I was biased? You mind explaining all those Horde heroes we've killing since Vanilla then?

I really liked it, just because you don't like the narrative doesn't make it an objectively bad piece of art

>Not an objectively bad piece of art:

Looks fine to me

Hilarious.

or make it worse... At the end of Legion, they had one real job... transfer the stuff we've gotten used to into abilities/talents that are comfortable. They couldn't even do that under Hazzikostas, the arrogant bastard.

The worst part of all of this is that Legion class design wasn't even good and felt mechanically lackluster compared to prior iterations of classes. But because it's sandwiched WoD and BfA (Which I can tell you from beta feels "meh" as far as class design goes), people will likely think Legion was good.

[Brubear]

Yeah, real funny leaving out WCII characters there. Especially when we have cities and landmarks named after them and they're referenced in quest text as being heroes of the Horde.

Because the fel-corrupted horde is hardly the same thing as the WoW-era Horde?

But if you want to go that far back, then fine, lets go with the PC games.

WC III

Horde.
Cairne - Killed off-screen by Garrosh.
Drek'thar - Was killable in AV but lore-wise he has survived and is still living as of Legion.
Rexxar - Still alive.
Rokhan - Still alive.
Samuro - Assumed to still be alive.
Chen Stormstout - Now a neutral hero.
Thrall - Still alive, last operating as a neutral hero.
Sylvanas - Still alive, killing Alliance.

Alliance.
Arthas - Killed in WotLK (you wanted to count the PC heroes).
Antonidas - Killed in WCIII
Muradin - Thought dead until WotLK, now alive.
Baelgun Flamebeard - Killed in WCIII and again in Legion.
Gavinrad the Dire - Killed in WCIII and again in Legion.
Halahk the Lifebringer- Killed in WCIII and again in Legion.
Magroth the Defender - Killed in WCIII and again in Legion.
Sylvanas - Killed in WCIII, now killing Alliance as a Horde Undead (by your metric would still count).
Cenarius - Slain by the Horde in WCIII, brought back in Cata, then almost killed again in Legion.
Maiev - Still alive, acted as a somewhat neutral party in Legion.
Illidan - Killed in BC, brought back then basically died again in Legion
Malfurion - Almost died in Legion, still alive supposedly.
Tyrande - Still alive.
Jania - Still alive.

WC II

Horde:
Grom - Died in WCIII.
Kargath - Was part of the Fel horde and killed in BC so hard to count.
Zul'jin - Killed in BC, hasn't been a Horde hero sine WCII
Cho'Gall - Hasn't been a Horde hero since WCII and even counting him as a hero is debatable, killed in Cata and WoD.
Dentarg - Killed in WCII
Gul'dan - Killed in WCIII, and you would be hard-pressed to call him a Horde hero seeing as how he's responsible for the fel corruption and the destruction of Draenor in the first place.
Teron Gorefiend - Again, not a horde hero like Gul'dan, killed in BC
Deathwing - Not a Horde hero.
Doomhammer - Dies in WCIII.
Blackhand - Killed in WCI/WCII.
Garona - Still alive, not really a horde hero.
Ner'zhul - Killed in WCII, Arthas has taken over by the time he dies in WotLK so not counting that death.
Kilrog Deadeye - Died in WCII.
Dal'rend - Killed in Vanilla.
Maim - Killed off-screen in WoW by the Dark Iron dwarves.

Alliance.
Lothar - Killed in WCII
Uther - Killed in WCIII
Turalyon - Was MiA until literally a year ago and was a neutral hero up until the very tail-end of the expansion.
Alleria - Same was Turalyon.
Danath - Thought dead until BC.
Khadgar - Has been a neutral hero since he was found alive in BC.
Kurdran - Same as Danath.

So I'll give you Kargath (which is still kind of a stretch), Dal'rend, and Zul'jin, as Cho'Gall, Gul'dan, Gorefiend, and Deathwing are not Horde heroes and the rest died pre-WoW/by non-Alliance causes. So Horde had it worse with their WCII heroes, but as you can clearly see the Alliance had it a lot worse with their WCIII heroes as the vast majority of them either died in WCIII/were brought back just to be killed in Legion. I'm not counting any of the AU heroes for either side for obvious reasons.

So yeah, still not a glaring imbalance. Plus none of this is counting major heroes/lore characters that died/basically died in WoW without being a dungeon/raid boss (Rhonin, Bolvar, Tyrion, Varian, Vol'jin, Maraad, etc). So it's been 6 major lore characters (not counting Varimathras) that were turned into loot pinatas vs the Alliance which had 4 major lore characters (5 counting Cenarius) not counting Cordanna. But the Horde are the ones who've really suffered, man. They've lost an entire 1 major city to date! Why the Alliance has only lost.....3.......how DOES the Horde put up with such a bias!?

[Detheavn]

>Not an objectively bad piece of art:

Yeah, I couldn't make my way through it because it looked horrible.

Should have stuck with Ludo Lullabi:

[Wildberry]

@Brubear Alright it's time to take a look at this flaming garbage of a post and tell you why you're wrong, being disingenuous and outright dishonest all at the same time.

First, I noticed you're using the typical Alliance tactic of "Muh neutral heroes." Stop it. They're still largely yours, we're just forced to interact with them. More over the original discussion here centered on Horde characters getting turned into Villains. You're adding in this arbitrary nonsense about "dying in RTS games," "going neutral," "being MIA," "Dying elsewhere," etc.

Because the fel-corrupted horde is hardly the same thing as the WoW-era Horde?

Too bad the WoW-era Horde has towns, and terrain named after them in addition to referring to certain ones as "Heroes" in our quest text to kill them.

Either way, let's get into this atrocity you call a list:

Cairne - Killed off-screen by Garrosh.

Irrelevant

Drek'thar - Was killable in AV but lore-wise he has survived and is still living as of Legion.
Rexxar - Still alive.
Rokhan - Still alive.
Samuro - Assumed to still be alive.
Chen Stormstout - Now a neutral hero.
Thrall - Still alive, last operating as a neutral hero.
Sylvanas - Still alive, killing Alliance.

Great but irrelevant. Also, Grom was a WCIII hero as well. Don't think I don't know why you did this.

Arthas - Killed in WotLK (you wanted to count the PC heroes).

Oh look, you got one. An Alliance character that went bad. Wow, you guys sure do have it so tough!

Antonidas - Killed in WCIII
Muradin - Thought dead until WotLK, now alive.

Irrelevant

Baelgun Flamebeard - Killed in WCIII and again in Legion.
Gavinrad the Dire - Killed in WCIII and again in Legion.
Halahk the Lifebringer- Killed in WCIII and again in Legion.
Magroth the Defender - Killed in WCIII and again in Legion.

Look at how disingenuous this is. You're trying to force the focus onto WCIII "Heroes" and include characters that you never controlled as a Human player. If you want to go for "Notable Characters," that's far more honest, consistent and it's something where it would quickly become apparent that you have no point. I wonder why you didn't do that? Oh well, aside from that, can we just take a moment to laugh at how you're apparently under the impression that "freeing a tortured soul of a deceased character" is somehow remotely equivalent to "Killing a living character that was formerly in your faction." Please walk me through that logic there.

Sylvanas - Killed in WCIII, now killing Alliance as a Horde Undead (by your metric would still count).

You know what, since I'm generous and this isn't as mind-blowingly idiotic as some of the other things you've listed, I'll give it to you.

Cenarius - Slain by the Horde in WCIII, brought back in Cata, then almost killed again in Legion.

Are we really pointing out 'Almosts' now? Are you doing this with a straight face?

Maiev - Still alive, acted as a somewhat neutral party in Legion.

Irrelevant

Illidan - Killed in BC, brought back then basically died again in Legion

Are you really going to hassle me about Old Horde characters while counting Illidan for the Alliance? You know, the guy who was exiled by Malfurion and formed his own faction off-planet before the Night Elves even joined the Alliance? You're totally arguing in good faith, I see.

Malfurion - Almost died in Legion, still alive supposedly.

Lol @ "Almost" and "Supposedly" here.

Tyrande - Still alive.
Jania - Still alive.
Grom - Died in WCIII.

Irrelevant

Kargath - Was part of the Fel horde and killed in BC so hard to count.

Not hard to count at all, considering you'll stoop low enough to count Illidan on the Alliance side. He counts.

Zul'jin - Killed in BC, hasn't been a Horde hero sine WCII

Still counts.

Cho'Gall - Hasn't been a Horde hero since WCII and even counting him as a hero is debatable, killed in Cata and WoD.

"Horde heroes that die aren't real Horde heroes!" We won't count him though, it doesn't change anything.

Gul'dan - Killed in WCIII, and you would be hard-pressed to call him a Horde hero seeing as how he's responsible for the fel corruption and the destruction of Draenor in the first place.

Not a Horde hero considering we had a mission to kill him in WCII, but he died in WCII, not III. There was a flashback in WCIII. Don't get snarky and screw up something like this, it's a bad look.

Teron Gorefiend - Again, not a horde hero like Gul'dan, killed in BC

Considering Gorefiend didn't betray the Horde alongside Gul'dan, and was actually one of the most important characters in securing the continuation of the Horde (Rallying Bleeding Hollow, Warsong, Shattered Hand and Shadowmoon to Ner'zhul, as well as convincing Ner'zhul to step up and be Warchief) yeah, we're counting him.

Deathwing - Not a Horde hero.

Still affiliated with the Horde.

Doomhammer - Dies in WCIII.

"Lord of the Clans" not WCIII

Blackhand - Killed in WCI/WCII

WCI, not II

Garona - Still alive, not really a horde hero.

She actually is, appearing for us in Cataclysm and BfA

Ner'zhul - Killed in WCII, Arthas has taken over by the time he dies in WotLK so not counting that death.

Again, this seems to reflect some double standards here.

Dal'rend - Killed in Vanilla.

Didn't betray the Horde with Gul'dan so it counts.

Maim - Killed off-screen in WoW by the Dark Iron dwarves.

Irrelevant.

Lothar - Killed in WCII
Uther - Killed in WCIII

Irrelevant

Turalyon - Was MiA until literally a year ago and was a neutral hero up until the very tail-end of the expansion.
Alleria - Same was Turalyon.

Oh no, they were temporarily neutral!

Danath - Thought dead until BC.
Kurdran - Same as Danath.

Wow, you had to wait until the first expansion to get them!

Khadgar - Has been a neutral hero since he was found alive in BC.

There have been breaks in his neutrality. He was a member of the Council of Six when Dalaran sent help to Theramore. Mickey Neilson also named him as the "likely suspect," when asked who it was that asked A'dal to send a general and some troops to Theramore.

So Horde had it worse with their WCII heroes, but as you can clearly see the Alliance had it a lot worse with their WCIII heroes as the vast majority of them either died in WCIII/were brought back just to be killed in Legion.

Yeah, we were again talking about "getting hit with the villain bat." Not "dying in general," or having to free tortured souls. Real weird how you have special specifications for the Horde ("Died pre-WoW/by non-Alliance causes") but will stretch to the ends of the Earth for Alliance heroes.

I'm not counting any of the AU heroes for either side for obvious reasons.

Oh it's very obvious. It turns out mentioning an expansion where we travel back in time just to kill Horde heroes isn't going to reflect well on your argument, even if you were to try and get "creative" and start counting the Draenei characters that died.

So yeah, still not a glaring imbalance.

Because you approached this in the most disingenuous way I have ever seen. I've seen a lot of fallacious nonsense and goalpost moving when this gets brought up, but you take the cake.

Plus none of this is counting major heroes/lore characters that died/basically died in WoW without being a dungeon/raid boss (Rhonin, Bolvar, Tyrion, Varian, Vol'jin, Maraad, etc).

Funny how you pretend you're being generous somehow by not counting neutral character deaths like Tirion. Really activates my almonds as they say.

But the Horde are the ones who've really suffered, man.

We are and if you weren't all-but-lying about this, you'd realize it.

They've lost an entire 1 major city to date! Why the Alliance has only lost.....3.......how DOES the Horde put up with such a bias!?

This is hilarious. You want to stretch, and sloppily attempt to reframe the discussion when it comes to heroes, but when you talk about cities you neglect to mention that one of ours turned into a raid instance.

This entire post is a joke, and the fact that you posted this nonsense, presumably, in sincerity tells me everything I need to know here.

[steelballfc]

Maybe...maybe...but look at Dat face, and tell me that deserved any kind of pay. Its like someone drew comic based on Gmod videos from few years ago.

i believe the comic are free lancer agents not someone who work exclusive for blizzard

[Arrashi]

i believe the comic are free lancer agents not someone who work exclusive for blizzard

Which still puts bad light on blizzard. Look at quality some manga adaptations of light novels. And thats not super profitable business. You gonna tell me that blizz, multi-bilion company couldn't hire one proffesional artist to draw 15 panel comic ?

[steelballfc]

@Detheavn
when the comics is published by proper comic-book company ( dc / darkhorse ) it's really good
when Blizzard just hire someone to do it, it's not that good.

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Which still puts bad light on blizzard. Look at quality some manga adaptations of light novels. And thats not super profitable business. You gonna tell me that blizz, multi-bilion company couldn't hire one proffesional artist to draw 15 panel comic ?

isn't blizzard have a deal with darkhorse ?
and they had a deal with DC comic ?

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@Wildberry
i will take a drink every time you say the word Irrelevant

[Combatbutler]

The whole premise of this xpack is a rehash and I can't believe blizzard delivers the faction conflict so incredibly bland and bad. My expectations were already very low and still I am disappointed.

[Detheavn]

@Detheavn
when the comics is published by proper comic-book company ( dc / darkhorse ) it's really good
when Blizzard just hire someone to do it, it's not that good.

Yep. The old Ashbringer and World of Warcraft: The Comic were amazing, both DC. Ludo Lullabi did work for both comics

And I do agree with @Arrashi. If you shell out money, at least make sure it's decent stuff.

There's fans which shit out art which is 100 times better than this, half of which would probably have done this for a fraction of the price.
Shit, both the art and colouring make me sad...

[Wildberry]

@Wildberry
i will take a drink every time you say the word Irrelevant

Considering how far that list was stretched, you'll likely be dead once I respond to his impending counter argument.

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Which still puts bad light on blizzard. Look at quality some manga adaptations of light novels. And thats not super profitable business. You gonna tell me that blizz, multi-bilion company couldn't hire one proffesional artist to draw 15 panel comic ?

Given how the usual suspects are still defending that abysmal comic, I almost can't blame them for cutting costs. It's bad, but they got away with it.

[Powerogue]

Look to the land for answers.



Find your roots, and live another day.

[Brubear]

[MENTION=752838]
This entire post is a joke, and the fact that you posted this nonsense, presumably, in sincerity tells me everything I need to know here.

Now you get it, because the amount of Horde heroes that became loot pinatas is almost the exact same amount as the Alliance (again, 6 to 4, 7 to 5 if you count Varimathras and Cordanna). But you wanted to stretch it back to pre-WoW, so that means you have to include the heroes from all of the games for both factions. Yes, it's ridiculous to include all of those people but, guess what, you're the one who wanted them to be included. You want to discount the guys like Galvinrad and Baelgun (who have places named after them, which is apparently important to you) because we didn't control them, yet how many times did you actually control Kargath or Blackhand? Hell, they weren't even dungeon bosses but quest objectives. Deathwing counts as a Horde hero because WCII > cannon?

Yes, the list was ridiculous. Yes, I dug deep and went through every single hero from all three PC games. It's absurd to count guys like Kargath, Ner'zhul, Blackhand, and Gorefiend as heroes of the modern-day Horde. The fel-corrupted Horde is something that the modern-day Horde views as a shameful part of their past, and the people that helped with that aren't heroes. Hell, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that anyone who didn't have the demons blood cleansed from them (or never corrupted to begin with) have even been heroes for the entirety of Warcrafts existence. The only way you get any sort of bias against the horde is if you count the AU Warlords.

Oh no, one of your cities was a raid instance. What was the lasting in-game impact of that, some of the NPCs changed? Yeah, I remember when they changed the NPCs in Netherguard, and Theramore, and Darnassus.

However, if Sylvanas does end up being a raid boss then I'll actually have some sympathy for you, as that is pretty stupid of Blizzard to rehash the Garrosh storyline (though her turning bad isn't a surprise to anyone that's actually followed her since basically Wrath).