Territories changes

[Magnagarde]

Problem is Alliance basically has no stronghold on Kalimdor anymore (except Theramore). There are just small outposts left. They possibly could claim Feralas but is it worth it?

Feralas is definitely worth it for them in my opinion. Not only is that the base of their sentinel army, but it's a pretty much untamed wildland that would be hard to fight in. On top of that, it has a major Shen'dralar city - Dire Maul - and contains one of the gateways into the Emerald Dream.

Feralas is basically the only zone left in Kalimdor in which the past, present and future of the night elves collide, from every single aspect of their society at that(ie Shen'dralar mages, the base of the sentinel army, the Emerald Dream's gateway which druids are no doubt interested in).

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The locations the Horde is keeping are all (or can be) heavily fortified. SFK, the Sepulcher, Alterac, Andorhal will be hard for the Alliance to reclaim. Meanwhile the Alliance in Kalimdor is mostly guerillas and towns with no fortifications at all. If the Forsaken manage to rebuilt Alterac, they can hold there forever; they cannot be starved in a siege and if the Alliance focuses too much on Alterac, the Forsaken can flank them from Andorhal.

They have send Paladins to cleanse Southshore (can they do that) but replacing the port and building fortifications while the Horde holds Tarren Mill sounds hopeless. And not all of Gilneas was plagued; the black flight-aligned Worgen were holding the city without much care for the plague.
Tiragarde can be rebuilt with enough effort. It was folly for Garrosh and later warchiefs to not tear down that keep or otherwise rebuilt and staff it. Theramore is the most crucial battle for the Alliance in Kalimdor, the natural port there can be rebuilt while guerillas are harassing the Horde in North Kalimdor.

All in all I think the Horde is in a better position. The Alliance will have a much harder time getting rid of them in EK. Yes, they will keep suffering losses to the guerillas in Ashenvale and Darkshore but they can slowly extract resources there and slowly move north while deforesting..

Are we certain that the Forsaken hold Shadowfang Keep? I believe that the Bloodfang pack was the last force to enter and claim Shadowfang through force.

[Magnagarde]

Yes, as per one of the war campaign missions the Apothecaries hold SFK and are working on a new plague in there.

Oh, I didn't bother checking the table missions at all. I know people mentioned Gilneas, but that's about it.

Is Alterac brought up too?

[Magnagarde]

If you can get rid of the ogres and hold Eldre'thalas, it is a fortress. The Alliance already is allied with the Shen'dralar post Cata with Tolthedrin dead but the Horde would find easy allies among the Ogres and THEY hold Dire Maul now.

Yeah, definitely. I hope the ogres' allegiance to the Horde expands beyond the Stonemaul clan. The Feralas' ogres have taken a good beating over the course of WoW. Depends on what kind of story direction Blizzard has in store I guess, but one with them still having a lot of power and one where they've all already been killed make equal sense in the end.

[vertigo12]

Isn't Southshore still a wasteland? Can it really be considered Alliance territory?

Isn't that part of Arathi Highlands? If so it is a contested zone aka Wintergrasp in BfA sans VoA.

edit: Right it was in Hillbrad as to the brawl system so yeah I think still contested zone.

[Magnagarde]

Yes, the Forsaken are in Alterac and Strahnband. The Mission Table for once is actually giving worthwhile info.

Yeah, they were always there in Strahnbrad, except for the human thieves and what not back in classic. Alterac is an imperative fortification from a story point of view. The Hinterlands and Hillsbrad are all at an easy reach through it, not to mention how it then also leads into Arathi and Lordaeron through adjacency.

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Isn't that part of Arathi Highlands? If so it is a contested zone aka Wintergrasp in BfA sans VoA.

It's part of Hillsbrad and is pretty much Horde controlled. Well, give or take controlled because it's a plagued wasteland.

[vertigo12]

Yeah, they were always there in Strahnbrad, except for the human thieves and what not back in classic. Alterac is an imperative fortification from a story point of view. The Hinterlands and Hillsbrad are all at an easy reach through it, not to mention how it then also leads into Arathi and Lordaeron through adjacency.

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It's part of Hillsbrad and is pretty much Horde controlled. Well, give or take controlled because it's a plagued wasteland.

It seems from the history of WoW they planned on making the entire Lordaeron aka Northern EK an undead exclusive area or mostly Forsaken's and looking at it they would like to keep it that way for a purpose. Perhaps a future faction splinter in the future?

[Nyel]

Feralas is definitely worth it for them in my opinion. Not only is that the base of their sentinel army, but it's a pretty much untamed wildland that would be hard to fight in. On top of that, it has a major Shen'dralar city - Dire Maul - and contains one of the gateways into the Emerald Dream.

Feralas is basically the only zone left in Kalimdor in which the past, present and future of the night elves collide, from every single aspect of their society at that(ie Shen'dralar mages, the base of the sentinel army, the Emerald Dream's gateway which druids are no doubt interested in).

I don't know. At this point it seems like Alliance should abandon Kalimdor, there's nothing left for them. And to hold against the Horde forces of Orgrimmar, Thunder Bluff etc. without any stronghold or major city (I don't consider Exodar to be anything than a broken space ship) seems impossible to me. Alliance should shift focus towards Easter Kingdoms (although Kalimdor is so much more mysterious and interesting!).

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All in all I think the Horde is in a better position. The Alliance will have a much harder time getting rid of them in EK. Yes, they will keep suffering losses to the guerillas in Ashenvale and Darkshore but they can slowly extract resources there and slowly move north while deforesting.

Well I agree on this, at least for Kalimdor. Easter Kingdoms... all of the Alliance forces lie there. Stormwind, Ironforge and even Gilneas. I think Horde has no chance to hold Eastern Kingdoms as Alliance has no chance to hold Kalimdor.

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I think the strategic move for the Alliance would be to let nelfs harry the Horde North yet focus their efforts on Theramore and Southern Barrens so they can cut off Mulgore. Do that and then offer truce to Baine and even protection if he secedes. Meanwhile they will need to do something violent (like Azerite Mana Bomb violent) to take down Alterac, Strahnband and/or Andorhal and I don't think Anduin has the stomache for that.

Don't think Alliance will do that. Genn is ruthless but no monster imho and there's no Alliance leader who would support this. Kalimdor is lost for the Alliance...

[Deleted]

Is the Alliance retarded?

If course it is! I mean it is, after all, a real-life organisation, making its strategical decisions in a rational manner. It has never been an afterthought in a 30-year long orc fanboi fapfest of a bunch of weak nerds working for Blizzard.

[Malikath]

It is nice logic that Gilneas was teleported back into the hand of the alliance or something, since they never show or do anything that tells you ingame that they somehow have taken Gilneas back from the Forsaken....

Ashenvale is stated to be lost ingame the Alliance have pulled out of the area meaning it shuld be red, and maybe there is some form of resitance there but it has no chance against the full might of the horde.

Logic heh good joke.

did you play the forsaken silverpine quest line?
she lost gilneas as quickly as she conquered it, it's been in alliance hands since the start of cata.

[Nyel]

I don't know, Alterac and SFK are very defensible. We assume Stromgarde is going to be in Alliance hands in canon, if not, then EK will fall quite easily. All it takes is for the Blood Elves to commit and reinforce the Forsaken; the Argent Dawn will stay neutral unless Sylvanas does something monumentally stupid. More importantly, the Alliance needs to stretch to hold land in EK since it's far from their power center while the Horde can move into Ashenvale directly from Azshara and Orgrimmar.

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We don't really know the state of Andorhal or who was send to Alterac. If Alterac is just military forces, why NOT bomb it? Similarly for Andorhal. The question is, to what level has Sylvanas evacuated? Tyrande based on Elegy was evacuating not just Teldrassil but all of Darkshore for days.

Why bomb anything? It's destroyed then and I'm not so sure if Alliance wants destruction.

I don't think Draenei and Blood Elves will play any major role which is a shame. I think Blizzard is just too lazy to update their zones.

[mkultra55]

I don't know, Alterac and SFK are very defensible. We assume Stromgarde is going to be in Alliance hands in canon, if not, then EK will fall quite easily. All it takes is for the Blood Elves to commit and reinforce the Forsaken; the Argent Dawn will stay neutral unless Sylvanas does something monumentally stupid. More importantly, the Alliance needs to stretch to hold land in EK since it's far from their power center while the Horde can move into Ashenvale directly from Azshara and Orgrimmar.

The Horde was decimated from the civil war and fall of Ogrimmar. The Alliance is currently much stronger so I don't see how you can think the Horde could come close to taking the EK in light of them losing Undercity. The Belfs aren't really a factor either since 90% of the population of Quel'Thalas was killed by the Scourge.

[InfiniteCharger]

Come on now. If the Alliance could send fleets to Outland and defeat the legion TWICE, why can't they defeat the horde in Kalimdor?

This is an absurd question. The only reason they can't is because Blizzard wants it that way.

It would be nice if there was some strategic and logical reason behind why they couldn't but there isn't. If they could go to AU Draenor, build whole new fleets, garrisons, and bases from nothing in a few months then they could do the same anywhere on azeroth they want. All you need is the resources and manpower. The problem is this would mean updating old zones to reflect changes to the world over time, which blizzard will not do.

With the way the story has been in WOW for the last 14 years, logistics and resources have never been a problem before in any of these massive campaigns both Alliance and Horde have been involved in. They went to Draenor in TBC and built new bases and beat the enemies there. They went to Northrend and built new bases, fortifications and outposts there and defeated the lich king. They went to Pandara and did the same and so forth and so on. So in all these cases they had near infinite resources against all these powerful enemies yet all of a sudden on Azeroth their own home turf, not some other planet or alternate dimension, they are limited..... Right.

The changes to territory are in name only and lore. Otherwise anybody leveling up from scratch will see the same zones and towns as they were from before BFA. Blizzard is not gong to spend money to rework old zones to make them reflect the story.

If Blizzard was seriously following logic and realistic strains resulting from wars and battles, then both the Horde and Alliance should be severely depleted from the war on the Legion to even have all these wars with each other all over Azeroth. How many men and material were lost in the Battle against the Legion? Doesn't matter does it? Yet suddenly in Darkshore, somehow it is hard to get troops there, when this has never been a problem before. Same for the Horde in Lordaeron.

[Thundering]

The Horde was decimated from the civil war and fall of Ogrimmar. The Alliance is currently much stronger so I don't see how you can think the Horde could come close to taking the EK in light of them losing Undercity. The Belfs aren't really a factor either since 90% of the population of Quel'Thalas was killed by the Scourge.

Please, The Alliance aint that clearly much stronger. Seeing how the Horde can take down all night elfs Territories all the way up to Darnasus and defeat Darnasus.... It clearly show they are not weaker than the Alliance.

It shows how weak the Alliance is being spread out as much as they are.

[Nyel]

Please, The Alliance aint that clearly much stronger. Seeing how the Horde can take down all night elfs Territories all the way up to Darnasus and defeat Darnasus.... It clearly show they are not weaker than the Alliance.

It shows how weak the Alliance is being spread out as much as they are.

It clearly shows how bad Blizzard is at writing, that's it. Malfurion acted like a dumbass - again. After his ridiculous presence in Valsharah this is another low for the most powerful Druid and one of the strongest friendly characters in Warcraft.

I mean burning Teldrassil with catapults from Darkshore? LOL it's so so bad writing.

[Lahis]

How does Azuremyst factor in at all? Is the Horde trying to take it? Thought the blood elf / draenei zones were basically dead content wise cause Blizzard’s too lazy to update them.

Yeah, they don't factor in. I suppose Blizzard could mention them on Mission Table, since that is not actual content that would require world updates, but Azyremyst and Quel'Thalas are dead zones as long as gameplay is concerned.

[mkultra55]

Please, The Alliance aint that clearly much stronger. Seeing how the Horde can take down all night elfs Territories all the way up to Darnasus and defeat Darnasus.... It clearly show they are not weaker than the Alliance.

It shows how weak the Alliance is being spread out as much as they are.

LMAO you're using the same crappy writing to support the crappy writing in question?

The Horde has always been the underdog in the lore. That's part of their charm.

[StationaryHawk]

But Azyremyst and Bloodmyst isles are unchanged, yet they're marked as blue, while Ghostlands/Eversong Forest are ignored.

It's not a map of in-game changes. It's based on the mission table and the scenarios the missions describe. Quel'Thalas is not mentioned, and therefore not marked on the map.

Yeah, they don't factor in. I suppose Blizzard could mention them on Mission Table, since that is not actual content that would require world updates, but Azyremyst and Quel'Thalas are dead zones as long as gameplay is concerned.

This is exactly the case.

[Akka]

The Horde was decimated from the civil war and fall of Ogrimmar. The Alliance is currently much stronger so I don't see how you can think the Horde could come close to taking the EK in light of them losing Undercity. The Belfs aren't really a factor either since 90% of the population of Quel'Thalas was killed by the Scourge.

Please, The Alliance aint that clearly much stronger. Seeing how the Horde can take down all night elfs Territories all the way up to Darnasus and defeat Darnasus.... It clearly show they are not weaker than the Alliance.

It shows how weak the Alliance is being spread out as much as they are.

You both illustrate exactly what the problem is : both sides are as strong as the plot demands, without care not consideration relative to how strong they SHOULD be.
As it was pointed in many threads, logically the whole population of Azeroth should be depleted by now considering how much of a meatgrinder the past decades have been. Especially as several races were on the brink of extinction already (and even those who were not all have suffered gruesome losses, save maybe the Dwarves).

This thread has a lot of posts that would be pretty interesting and insightful if it were a grand strategy game, but it's all null and void anyway because whatever Blizzard says will happens, regardless of logic, feasability or their own lore (like all armies teleporting everywhere all the while the war council speak big words about logistics that obviously have zero effects on what happens).

[Ielenia]

It's not a map of in-game changes. It's based on the mission table and the scenarios the missions describe. Quel'Thalas is not mentioned, and therefore not marked on the map.

It doesn't matter, they're still Horde territory, regardless if they're used in the BfA expansion or not.

[StationaryHawk]

It doesn't matter, they're still Horde territory, regardless if they're used in the BfA expansion or not.

It is a map of conflicts and changes of control as told by the mission table. As such, it only includes those locations that follower missions occur. That you didn't clue into this by the enormous amount of unshaded land on both continents is incredible.

If you want a complete map of Alliance/Horde territories, feel free to colour it in yourself.