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  1. #321
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    Icy veins feels really underwhelming to use without the artifact and thermal void not being taken anymore. Is it even a 1% dps increase?


    It was never a bursty spec before Legion. But yeah, IV's not that great a cooldown in general. BC/RoP/EB/CmS/GS, for what it's worth.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2018-07-26 at 10:50 PM.

  2. #322
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post


    It was never a bursty spec before Legion. But yeah, IV's not that great a cooldown in general. BC/RoP/EB/CmS/GS, for what it's worth.
    I disagree about Frost not being a burst spec before Legion. It was always about the burst in PvP and for what? Two expansions it was all about the huge Deep Freeze damage in PvE? I know they toned it down later, but the newest iteration feels like the worst of both worlds to me.

    Comet Storm for single target? Is it really better than Splitting Ice with Glacial Spike? Does the 5% increased Icicle damage not translate to a larger GS? Or does the comet damage make up for the difference?
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  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    I disagree about Frost not being a burst spec before Legion. It was always about the burst in PvP and for what? Two expansions it was all about the huge Deep Freeze damage in PvE? I know they toned it down later, but the newest iteration feels like the worst of both worlds to me.

    Comet Storm for single target? Is it really better than Splitting Ice with Glacial Spike? Does the 5% increased Icicle damage not translate to a larger GS? Or does the comet damage make up for the difference?
    Fair about double DF openers, I had forgotten about that. Still, the overall damage profile of most other versions of Frost through the years has never been nearly as spiky as most other specs, and Legion's version was a bit of an outlier with CttC.

    Comet Storm is ridiculously powerful right now. Also, GS lost all the double dip effects it had in Legion, like power modifiers applying both to Frostbolt damage generating larger Icicle and then again to GS itself as a total. So yes, SI produces larger GSes, but it's no longer multiple multipliers on it. CmS is about 2% ahead of SI on single target GS right now.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Comet Storm is ridiculously powerful right now. Also, GS lost all the double dip effects it had in Legion, like power modifiers applying both to Frostbolt damage generating larger Icicle and then again to GS itself as a total. So yes, SI produces larger GSes, but it's no longer multiple multipliers on it. CmS is about 2% ahead of SI on single target GS right now.
    Yeah I went and compared them on live on my Mage. With SI, my GS crit for 18.7k and without it it crit for only 17.2k, so a whopping 1.5k damage added. Then I cast a Comet Storm and it alone did 7.7k damage on a single target.

    So CS comes out to 257 DPS for me if cast on CD and dealing the same damage (just for argument's sake). My Mage can cast a FrB every 1.6 seconds and a GS in 2.4 so I can get a GS out every 10.4 seconds which means I can get three in during the same time frame which means SI would net me roughly 150 DPS during the same time frame right?

    So CS is roughly 100 DPS more than SI unless I'm mistaken? Yeah, I guess they really buffed up the shit out of that talent. Also this just makes me realize how big of a loss the artifacts are. So many little bonuses that made specs function...gone.
    BfA Beta Time

  5. #325
    I think Frost turned out very well post-artifacts at least. Having comet storm and glacial spike feels REALLY good to play in all game modes.

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    So CS is roughly 100 DPS more than SI unless I'm mistaken? Yeah, I guess they really buffed up the shit out of that talent. Also this just makes me realize how big of a loss the artifacts are. So many little bonuses that made specs function...gone.
    Roughly 100, yeah. It's also that it's no longer a L100 talent fighting against huge playstyle defining abilities. Pretty damned good in M+ as burst AoE when paired with Freeze too.

    I also don't think Blizz quite realized just how propped up Ice Lance was, in relation to traits. There were multiple times it got buffed because it was in danger of going lanceless again. Hell, it's still got about 20-30% headroom for further buffs if we hit that point, although it's pretty safe at the moment.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    I think Frost turned out very well post-artifacts at least. Having comet storm and glacial spike feels REALLY good to play in all game modes.
    The rotation for GS feels clean but I want to see what it looks like at 120 because as it stands TV is simming higher with less room for error. At least personally

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Roughly 100, yeah. It's also that it's no longer a L100 talent fighting against huge playstyle defining abilities. Pretty damned good in M+ as burst AoE when paired with Freeze too.

    I also don't think Blizz quite realized just how propped up Ice Lance was, in relation to traits. There were multiple times it got buffed because it was in danger of going lanceless again. Hell, it's still got about 20-30% headroom for further buffs if we hit that point, although it's pretty safe at the moment.
    I also don't think they realized how outdated IV is without TV or any of the boosting traits in the artifact. I think it's the only DPS CD we have that has been unchanged baseline since it's introduction. We're on what? The fifth or sixth iteration of Combustion and the third AP? I feel they can make Thermal Void baseline and add in another 120 talent to compete with GC and RoF, since TV is the only max level talent for Frost that has no animation to it.
    BfA Beta Time

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    I also don't think they realized how outdated IV is without TV or any of the boosting traits in the artifact. I think it's the only DPS CD we have that has been unchanged baseline since it's introduction. We're on what? The fifth or sixth iteration of Combustion and the third AP? I feel they can make Thermal Void baseline and add in another 120 talent to compete with GC and RoF, since TV is the only max level talent for Frost that has no animation to it.
    IV also incurs the GCD now. At 3 minutes, it's really not an exciting cool down to use.

    Ray has an enormous cool down at 75 secs. I don't know how that ever competes with TV/GS in a M+/raid environment. It is fun while leveling.

    The other thing that hurts currently w/o artifact is 3rd charge of FoF, honestly that should be baseline to spec. That 3rd charge really reduces FoF munching caused by more procs than you can spam. Two charges also works against using Ray because you need no generators going/in air before casting Ray as it awards 2 FoF procs.

    Further I believe GS play would be greatly improved if we could hold 2 BF procs. I am constantly concerned going to munch a BF proc because casting another FB to get GS and thus be able to go GS/Flurry/IL.

    And I dearly wish they would fix BF procs munching FoF procs. Cry a little every time I have to use a FoF proc after Flurry.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    IV also incurs the GCD now. At 3 minutes, it's really not an exciting cool down to use.

    Ray has an enormous cool down at 75 secs. I don't know how that ever competes with TV/GS in a M+/raid environment. It is fun while leveling.

    The other thing that hurts currently w/o artifact is 3rd charge of FoF, honestly that should be baseline to spec. That 3rd charge really reduces FoF munching caused by more procs than you can spam. Two charges also works against using Ray because you need no generators going/in air before casting Ray as it awards 2 FoF procs.

    Further I believe GS play would be greatly improved if we could hold 2 BF procs. I am constantly concerned going to munch a BF proc because casting another FB to get GS and thus be able to go GS/Flurry/IL.

    And I dearly wish they would fix BF procs munching FoF procs. Cry a little every time I have to use a FoF proc after Flurry.
    They could easily fix the issue with BF consuming FoF (I've played other classes that have similar mechanics of procs buffing similar abilities and they don't double dip on consumption) but they fear it might make Frost too powerful if they have TOO many Shattered Ice Lances.

    Also, I do agree that all of our DPS CDs being on the GCD sucks, especially for Frost that has nothing like Fire Blast to power through it. Want to hit a burst phase? Frozen Orb, Icy Veins, Comet Storm...all on the GCD. Enjoy waiting 4.5 seconds before casting a spell, whereas half the raid just has DoTs ticking.


    In that vein...how are Frost and Arcane the only two DPS specs without a single DoT in their kit? I guess Nether Tempest counts, but does anyone ever take it?

    Personally I would love to see the trait that increases Frost damage dealt during IV along with TV being baked baseline and some other talent introduced at the 100 tier. TV just doesn't feel spec or role defining, just a boring boost to a weak CD. I feel the same way about Kindling for Fire.


    That, along with two charges of both FoF and BF would smooth out gameplay a great deal and I wouldn't feel so bad about using BF on something other than GS right now. And for the love of god, just make Blizzard during FO instant already.
    BfA Beta Time

  11. #331
    Well said Swizzle, agree on all points.

  12. #332
    I want the PvP talent "Concentrated coolness" target frozen orb effect to be baseline in the ability. It's so awful to use without this PvP talent after getting used to it ;/

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    I want the PvP talent "Concentrated coolness" target frozen orb effect to be baseline in the ability. It's so awful to use without this PvP talent after getting used to it ;/
    It should be the default. Yesterday in Antorus I was reminded how fucking annoying 1cm high ledges can be as frost -.-.

  14. #334
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Anyone able to find anything about Dalaran Brilliance? I miss my purple int!
    BfA Beta Time

  15. #335
    I thought they removed it from the game?

  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    I thought they removed it from the game?
    They did, but they also removed Arcane Int and we got that back. I was just wondering if anyone had found a way to get it on beta since I completely forgot to look for it.
    BfA Beta Time

  17. #337
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    They did, but they also removed Arcane Int and we got that back. I was just wondering if anyone had found a way to get it on beta since I completely forgot to look for it.
    Sadly missing. Book was never returned to the vendor and the item is still grey.

  18. #338
    Anyone can tell me what's the rotation for Arcane?

    Once I get 4 charges, do I just sit there and spam Arcane Missiles? How do I proceed after that?

    Thanks in advance!

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Velvet View Post
    Anyone can tell me what's the rotation for Arcane?

    Once I get 4 charges, do I just sit there and spam Arcane Missiles? How do I proceed after that?

    Thanks in advance!
    Usually you get four charges, use your missiles, then abarr to clear the charges. During burn phases with list up you just spam ab and missiles until you reach some percent of mana then evocate and return to the conservative rotation.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Usually you get four charges, use your missiles, then abarr to clear the charges. During burn phases with list up you just spam ab and missiles until you reach some percent of mana then evocate and return to the conservative rotation.
    Thanks! But is there any kind of data or something where I can see which mage spec is doing best? Because right now I don't know which spec's doing the best at single target...

    Also, I don't know what you mean by "With list up", did you mean Bloodlust?

    Thanks in advance!

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