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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool319 View Post
    Pretty much this. I'm just confused cuz i thought it was long established that only humans and elves can become forsaken?
    That's still the case. These aren't Forsaken, they're just the kind of skeleton minions Sylvanas had in WC3, which elapse after a certain point. They're mindless as you can tell from their lack of lines.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    I am saddened to see that Baine stayed loyal, but I don't want another "Revolution against the warchief" expansion.
    why would he go revolt? trying to recapture saurfang might have been their downfall.. he might be disappointed but it was the right call.

  3. #43
    so .. Sylvanas learned Army of the Dead ? from Koltira maybe ?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiav View Post
    why would he go revolt? trying to recapture saurfang might have been their downfall.. he might be disappointed but it was the right call.
    Baine's entire complaint is disingenuous. Sylvanas told Saurfang that he can come with them or he can bail and he bailed. She didn't force him to do anything and in fact she's never attacked or threatened any of her fellow leaders while Warchief, though she has threatened Lor'themar before.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    It is pure common sense! If you were a soldier and you are seeing how your superior is literally killing your comrades! You should at least defect for fear of being the next one to kill in this way!

    Garrosh sent his troops to fight suicidal battles, but he did not kill them personally
    ya totally agree!

  6. #46
    Also i was kinda on the fence since i'm still not feeling that good about the whole tree burning, but this line from scenario kinda made me side with Sylvanas rather then Saurfang

    Maybe you don't care if your people die so long as it is Honorable. But to me, this Horde is worth saving. Anyone who disagrees does not deserve to stand among us.
    It doesn't even matter whether she really believes in that, i couldn't care less about Sylvanas.
    I just don't want to be in the same faction with anyone who places ideals above victory and survival. We already have Alliance for that. And unlike Teldrassil i have zero problems with what Horde did during siege of Lorderon.

    Also Lol at Baine going "You've left him to die!"
    Erm, nope. He decided to stay there and die on his own. Because he is suicidal veteran overwhelmed with self loathing. Was she supposed to tie him up and carry on her back?
    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    if you play horde after elegy, you literally do not have a soul.

  7. #47
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  8. #48
    Forsaken do what it takes #undeadforlife and FOR THE HORDE!!!!

  9. #49
    This move is the part that can't be rationally defended, let alone ethically defended, especially when she has the nerve to suggest she cares more about the lives of the Horde than Saurfang. I can't using shitty writing to defend her, shitty writing is still canon.

    Here's the argument nobody can counter -- if you read "Tides of War" and I think it's represented in game, when it was time for the mana-bomb, Garrosh ordered a retreat from Theramore's walls to lull the Alliance into complacency and to, oh for instance, not evaporate his own people. Same tactic could have worked here, the soldiers could have been called into false retreat into the walls, then let loose the blight on the Alliance when they close in, THEN send out the masked fighters to finish them off. Raise the Alliance if you like. But there was simply no reason to do it the way she did it other than if she simply DNGAF about the lives of her troops, and there's really only two paths to concluding otherwise -- lazy and stupid.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcin14 View Post
    What happened to Lor'themar's threat back in SoO when he said that if Sylvanas did not leave their corpses alone that he'd deal with her?
    at least blizz did not put blood elves troops in the battle

  11. #51
    Since it's mostly orcs and tauren, and to a lesser extend trolls, that are all about honor. They needed a reason why the other races will eventually abandon her and going full Arthas works well.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Too late, you are now a part of this.

    Prepare to be purged by the Alliance!
    Not at all, account closed. Have fun slaughtering the evil. For the record, I did not partake in the pre-launch so no I am not part of that evil garbage. I hope the Alliance wipes them out.
    Aman'ni anar! Asto're no terro - ai ri shano taleh diel shar nido dor Fandu.
    Nor alah tal dor thus ethala nor Fandu'talah lo man'ar do tal al'shar lo dor Fandu.

    O rini su turus nor shando dorini do dor Mandalas. O no do isera'duna lo su Dorados'no ethala O no o neph'o lo su Dorados'No al'shar.

    Dath diel ethala su adore do anu lo anar O alah nor nor NOR DOR FANDU!

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    This move is the part that can't be rationally defended, let alone ethically defended, especially when she has the nerve to suggest she cares more about the lives of the Horde than Saurfang. I can't using shitty writing to defend her, shitty writing is still canon.

    Here's the argument nobody can counter -- if you read "Tides of War" and I think it's represented in game, when it was time for the mana-bomb, Garrosh ordered a retreat from Theramore's walls to lull the Alliance into complacency and to, oh for instance, not evaporate his own people. Same tactic could have worked here, the soldiers could have been called into false retreat into the walls, then let loose the blight on the Alliance when they close in, THEN send out the masked fighters to finish them off. Raise the Alliance if you like. But there was simply no reason to do it the way she did it other than if she simply DNGAF about the lives of her troops, and there's really only two paths to concluding otherwise -- lazy and stupid.
    "Gee, Genn, I wonder why the woman who used the plague every other time we fought her is readying those catapults and recalling her troops?"
    "I dunno, Anduin, I guess we better stay right where we are and find out instead of say, clearing."

    This is actually one of the easiest things to defend on Sylvanas' part. Firstly because it basically works outside of other factors and secondly because had she not done it the Alliance would've broken through anyway and killed those same dying soldiers on top of those inside.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    at least blizz did not put blood elves troops in the battle
    Oh really Lor'themar himself is there and in beta you can see quite a few priests near the teleportation orb, but I dunno if it made life.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool319 View Post
    Pretty much this. I'm just confused cuz i thought it was long established that only humans and elves can become forsaken?
    Plague only affects humans. Anyone can be raised into undeath using necromancy.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Here's the argument nobody can counter -- if you read "Tides of War" and I think it's represented in game, when it was time for the mana-bomb, Garrosh ordered a retreat from Theramore's walls to lull the Alliance into complacency and to, oh for instance, not evaporate his own people. Same tactic could have worked here, the soldiers could have been called into false retreat into the walls, then let loose the blight on the Alliance when they close in, THEN send out the masked fighters to finish them off. Raise the Alliance if you like. But there was simply no reason to do it the way she did it other than if she simply DNGAF about the lives of her troops, and there's really only two paths to concluding otherwise -- lazy and stupid.
    But i'm pretty sure that was written that way specifically for the purpose of creating a rift between Saurfang and Sylvanas. If she did it like than Saurfang wouldn't leave Horde, which is not what they wanted to do.

    They first thing of several "crucial" story directions, and then just put some mediocre writing to justify it. Spending more effort on more deliberate writing would cause Blizz to either spend more time or money on it, which they obviously don't want to do. Wow story is a fast food, not a high end restaurant, unfortunately.
    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    if you play horde after elegy, you literally do not have a soul.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    "Gee, Genn, I wonder why the woman who used the plague every other time we fought her is readying those catapults and recalling her troops?"
    "I dunno, Anduin, I guess we better stay right where we are and find out instead of say, clearing."

    This is actually one of the easiest things to defend on Sylvanas' part. Firstly because it basically works outside of other factors and secondly because had she not done it the Alliance would've broken through anyway and killed those same dying soldiers on top of those inside.
    Um, if readying the use of the plague was something they were going to notice, they were going to notice it at any stage of the battle. They didn't, so it's moot. Indeed, it's apparent that Anduin and his military brain trust forgot it was even a thing since they had absolutely no plan for it -- Anduin immediately considered the assault a failure the moment it was deployed.

    So that argument is actually not much of one at all. They expected Righteous Victory from moment one and would have acted accordingly. They'd have bitten on the fake without question.

    EDIT: Another better option would have been to fire the blight into the Alliance lines or beyond them and force them forward into the blades of her forces and under their bows atop the wall.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinistrem View Post
    But i'm pretty sure that was written that way specifically for the purpose of creating a rift between Saurfang and Sylvanas. If she did it like than Saurfang wouldn't leave Horde, which is not what they wanted to do.

    They first thing of several "crucial" story directions, and then just put some mediocre writing to justify it. Spending more effort on more deliberate writing would cause Blizz to either spend more time or money on it, which they obviously don't want to do. Wow story is a fast food, not a high end restaurant, unfortunately.
    I agree that might be the Doylist (authorial) reason for having her do it, but I'm all immersed into the Watsonian justifications, the "in story" ones, and she really didn't have one.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Oh really Lor'themar himself is there and in beta you can see quite a few priests near the teleportation orb, but I dunno if it made life.
    I only saw lorthemar

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    I only saw lorthemar
    Well, and a third to half the player characters, but they didn't get turned.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Um, if readying the use of the plague was something they were going to notice, they were going to notice it at any stage of the battle. They didn't, so it's moot. Indeed, it's apparent that Anduin and his military brain trust forgot it was even a thing since they had absolutely no plan for it -- Anduin immediately considered the assault a failure the moment it was deployed.

    So that argument is actually not much of one at all. They expected Righteous Victory from moment one and would have acted accordingly. They'd have bitten on the fake without question.
    The thing is that they react to the stimuli they see. Anduin ignores the risk of the Blight because he wants a heroic victory against the evil villain, which is the same reason he confronts her in the throne room rather than employing and stops Genn from killing her there. If Sylvanas cleared the place and withdrew her troops, she'd have tipped the Alliance off and her plan would have failed and those same people would've died anyway. Instead, she pushes the Alliance hard enough that they're reliant on Jaina to save them and those inside the keep survive and evacuate.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

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