sylvanas kills our own troops

[Super Dickmann]

Not just her, but we are given the option to literally carry the blight canister and actively participate.

I agree that it is lazy writing, because the two options given to the Horde are actively shoot the blight, or sit there while others do and do nothing. She then goes on to basically tell Saurfang he can die, he's served his purpose and doesn't have a place in the Horde, then she tells Baine he's free to join him in death.

Those are the two choices though - follow Sylvanas and use the Blight or don't follow Sylvanas and focus on saving people like Saurfang tells you. You have an actual choice on who's example you want to act on. Also, that's a load of bullshit. Saurfang chooses to leave and she tells him that if he really does care more about his honor than the long-term survival of the Horde he should leave and if he does care for the Horde he should stay. She says it in a bitchy way, but that's the gist of it. So he leaves. She didn't abandon him, he chose to go. She tells Baine to fuck off because Baine was there and knew this, but is still whining.

Baine says no because he knows he can't leave the Horde in her hands, and to go off and die would mean one less person to oppose her. What Nathanos is up to, I hope we see soon because that was some shady shit there at the end.

Baine is indeed staying for the good of what he wants the Horde to be, and also because he has no spine. Nathanos I think was just affected by beign given the weapon because he was afraid for Sylvanas' safety.

This is seriously one of the cases where the actions require very little justification. The soldiers are dying anyway and not using the Blight in that context would risk the lives of everyone inside and kill these people. More than that her action works, Anduin is pushed back and he and Genn are desperate before Jaina shows up to save their asses. This is actually morally grey, unlike genocide. It's far more justifiable than Illidan slaughtering his compatriots because he forgot to pack a mana potion and we spent a whole expansion hearing about what a great guy he was.

[Rhlor]

i understand i am an old player and played of war 1 2 and 3 the horde for me is the horde of Thrall and saurfang. i like Sylvanas and the forsaken lore, but put them in the horde was strange. and sylvanas and forsaken "way of life" becomming dominante in the horde is weird as hell for me. BUT! see it as a chance you have in the Horde political trouble, instable goverment, faction, ideology clashing. for us in the Alliance? nothing like that. as a tribal warban the horde leadership can change very quickly and now with saurfang , baine and probably the half of the Horde heroes (you)upset againt her, she is doom

you understand that the players of the horde hate this shit right?

[agentsi]

this is ridicule! it is impossible that my character after seeing how sylvanas kill my brothers and sisters from the horde and raises them as undeads still follow her orders.
This is bad writing! we overthrew Garrosh for less than this

You realize Illidan has done this numerous times, as well as other heroes(good aligned characters) throughout Warcraft's history right?

Personally, I like the way she is right now. She seems to care about the horde surviving more than honor. Sometimes things such as pride/honor can cause bad decisions to be made for the greater good as those feelings are often shortsighted.

[Gelannerai]

How frustrated do you think Golden is right now?

[Rhlor]

Thing is at this point the alliance will come for all the horde.
at this point your stck with her, and even garrosh yes he did horrible stuff but it took along time before you finally took him out. same with sylvanas.

I was working with voljin since Cata

[Life-Binder]

whats the point of not killing our own soldiers given that we are losing and they will die anyway, when we can kill those soldiers ourselfs and take as many of enemy as we can too.

bingo !

[Logwyn]

I am saddened to see that Baine stayed loyal, but I don't want another "Revolution against the warchief" expansion.

Or is he still just pretending and secretly talking to Anduin still somehow? Azerite affecting everyone?

[Doffen]

If you can't handle being baddie, the Alliance is there waiting for you. Or embrace it, and look forward to patch 8.3: The Return of Thrall Being Warchief to Karazhan.

[Niaraa]

you understand that the players of the horde hate this shit right?

i understand yep, and this is the same situation IRL when the wrong candidate win the election! Saurfang will Mak'gora her (and probably die) or she will be exiled. but i think she will leave to create somthing new

[Linkedblade]

Do you have a degree in Necromancy?

Have you been educated at Lich King High, for extraordinary Villains of Undeath?

I don't think so!

No I studied at Scholomance

[Raetary]

This is bad writing! we overthrew Garrosh for less than this

no we didn't?

[Rhlor]

You realize Illidan has done this numerous times, as well as other heroes(good aligned characters) throughout Warcraft's history right?

Personally, I like the way she is right now. She seems to care about the horde surviving more than honor. Sometimes things such as pride/honor can cause bad decisions to be made for the greater good as those feelings are often shortsighted.

survive? or that they all become undeads?

[Linkedblade]

"Oh wait, you didn't like me as a Warchief? Why wouldn't you say it earlier!"

Puts down mantle of the warchief and goes back to being leader of forsaken, doing everything she did before and during BfA all the same because nobody cares about non-warchief Sylvanas crimes.


It's not that convoluted. Nobody but Baine opposes her in the Horde, and we have Mr. Forgivness as Alliance leader.

Also Saurfang is just as stupid. Like whats the point of not killing our own soldiers given that we are losing and they will die anyway, when we can kill those soldiers ourselfs and take as many of enemy as we can too. I came to Horde to play as ruthless savages not fools led by archaic values and ideals. There's Alliance for that. Not that i enjoy playing saturday cartoon villains either, but hey, it's better than the other side.

I'm starting to think that this is part of Saurfang and Sylvanas' plan to do as much harm to the Alliance as possible that way the alliance itself dissolves. That way the Horde can stand United to pick off any incursions that may come up.

The story that came out yesterday "a good war" explains it a bit better than I can.

Saurfang is playing a double agent of sorts. He understands everything Sylvanas is doing, but he's playing dumb/moral so that any ears for the alliance can misinform on the Horde.

[Mgann-Morzz]

As ruthless as that use of the plague was if it wasn't for Jaina's intervention that would of scattered the Alliance and pretty much gauranteed a Horde victory and hold of the Undercity and a dramatically demoralized Alliance that would be pretty hesitant to challenge the Horde like that again and probably frought with internal conflict over Anduins leadership. It was evil and immoral yes but it was well planned and the smartest move in the situation that was at hand.

[Hctaz]

before that even, she saw her rangers as things to be used.
hence her "arrows in my quiver" ideology that she hollowly condemned alongside garrosh when he bombed theramore, meanwhile in legion her plan was to turn people into val'kry with an enslaved val'kyr queen and use them as 1-ups.

make note how they confirm the fact the raised undead no longer have free-will by including alliance arms equipped undead.

They could have taken her story completely differently too. It's really sad. I always envisioned the Undead as something different before Cataclysm. Maybe I was wrong, but it always just seemed like they were trying to get revenge on the Lich King for the atrocities he committed, and that they were bitter for being called abominations by the people who they once called friends and family.

This whole expansion doesn't make sense though. They really needed better story for this. Sylvanas attacks Teldressil because she's scared of Anduin using Azerite for weaponry against the horde? Bruh. Baine should know that isn't going to happen. Baine should have been able to tell Anduin why the Horde retreated on the Broken Shore. That would probably quell any complications between the two factions. Not only that, but the players fighting in this war make less than zero amount of sense. We just got done fighting a war where the entire motto was "Screw the factions. They're stupid. Let's make our own factions based around our class, then unite those to win!" Khadgar only pointed out to me, like, 47 times that the classes working faction-less was working so well. You really expect us all to just go back to some dumb war after that? Fuck off. My character would just be sitting in the order hall laughing at the stupidity, or the Armies of Legionfall would just go run up to Sylvanas and smack her dumb head in themselves.

I don't know why they didn't go with the route of trying to cure their state of undeath rather than this nonsense. "Arthas is dead, time to murder everything that ever lived cuz I hate being an undead." What? The whole story where she killed herself and went to hell could have had a completely opposite and much more reasonable outcome.

[Airlick]

Well for people who hate undeath they are awkwardly reliant on undead beings like wisps. Which was always rather weird

Wisps aren't undead, they are nelven spirits that have basically become one with nature. It's harmonous and completely different from binding a soul to a dead body, condemning it to eternal damnation with no way of escaping it.

[Sinistrem]

survive? or that they all become undeads?

She can't turn them all undead. Forsaken are Humans and Elfs only. The skellies she has risen are literally random malignant spirits bound to remains for a short time. That doesn't affect soul of the victim in any way and it only lasts for several hours at best. It's not like she is Lich King who can raise and turn anyone into undead permamently, we'll have to wait for Bolvar to return for that.

[Combatbutler]

Wisps aren't undead, they are nelven spirits that have basically become one with nature. It's harmonous and completely different from binding a soul to a dead body, condemning it to eternal damnation with no way of escaping it.

Wisps are dead elves brought back in a new form, just because they are brought back better doesn't make them any less undead. Same goes for Odyn's army etc.

[KaPe]

Also Saurfang is just as stupid. Like whats the point of not killing our own soldiers given that we are losing and they will die anyway, when we can kill those soldiers ourselfs and take as many of enemy as we can too. I came to Horde to play as ruthless savages not fools led by archaic values and ideals. There's Alliance for that. Not that i enjoy playing saturday cartoon villains either, but hey, it's better than the other side.

So what happens next time when the Warchief decides that her army was about to "lose" another battle? What's the threshold for using Blight? What if they were actually going to win or at least draw, but were killed by their own commander? Oh well, too bad, we have reserves?

Unless Horde soldiers are both completely fanatical and braindead, they'd have to start questioning this. At that point, they're not being treated like warriors, but mere tools, to be disposed of whenever Sylvanas wants to. Hell, if it weren't for game enforced plot armor our characters have, we could very well be her next victim when she decides to nuke both sides during particularily intense struggle.

This is not a road to victory, but rather getting her head smashed in by someone who finally had enough.

[Rhlor]

She can't turn them all undead. Forsaken are Humans and Elfs only. The skellies she has risen are literally random malignant spirits bound to remains for a short time. That doesn't affect soul of the victim in any way and it only lasts for several hours at best. It's not like she is Lich King who can raise and turn anyone into undead permamently, we'll have to wait for Bolvar to return for that.

she tells saurfang to raise him as undead