I don't understand people who place their hope in BFA level 120 lock?

[CuchuCachu]

IDK why people are pretending pvp doesnt matter. If our CLASS is struggling in pvp it will show itself in pve too, it just wont result in you getting stunned and killed right away. You'll likely just be sluggish by comparison, in terms of moving but also adapting to situations and getting your damage rolling. This is decidedly not fun and a blindspot Blizzard does have since it's harder to test and sim.

I agree that warlock is not ok right now, which is that due to the way the class IS, which is without mobility (exclusive exception is the portal and the circle), low survivablity (I can survive by exploiting Astral Healing Potion which is literally Lay on Hands on a 1 minute cooldown), almost no utility (is Fear the single most expensive CC in the entire game?) and low damage.


What I personally don't understand, is those people saying WARLOCK WILL BE GOOD AT 120.

Can anyone, anyone at all logically explain to me this specific claim?

Can anyone logically explain to me, how is it possible in any way, shape or form that warlock will be better at level 120, when I'm heavily exploiting stats right now at level 110 to do decent damage?

Only a few answered this. Not good.

I am underwhelmed with this situation simply because I recall thinking Aff in particular seemed pretty weak in Legion pre-patch and Beta but people telling me I would be wrong when we went live.

Even realID friends who are more experienced raiders than me dismissed my concerns when I pointed out that Aff only seemed fine in the Legion prepatch due to us having a ton of haste and in some cases the Archimonde trinket (if you did timewalking you could not keep up at all, even if Draenor dungeons were fine which is how I knew)

Of course when we went live the whole class was in a terrible state and had to complain until Blizzard broke the game for everyone else just so we'd shut up.

May as well start the complaint train early since Blizz has incentive to give the squeaky wheel its grease

The "legitimate complaint", bois...

Honestly - I am not even bloody sure how can you say that with a straight face looking how locks pretty much dominated Legion, first 2 months notwithstanding.

But the preamble to Legion was people assuring others that Warlocks were fine, and this only resolved itself by whining. Obviously Blizzard cant repeat Legion but we seem to either be OP or mediocre as hell

It was called Doomsaying then too to say we feel underwhelming. If I didnt know better people are neglecting that aspect of Legion.

[Baconeggcheese]

Of course when we went live the whole class was in a terrible state and had to complain until Blizzard broke the game for everyone else just so we'd shut up.

May as well start the complaint train early since Blizz has incentive to give the squeaky wheel its grease

Class was a tiny bit under tuned at launch, I was still doing competitive damage and pulling my weight at the time.

It especially didn't hurt that I had magistrike restraints, as any time there was 2 targets it was outright OP.

[Gaidax]

Magistrike Destruction was pretty ridiculous at launch, that's for sure.

Maybe not as ridiculous as Spriests who were outright broken, but it was some massive cheese there.

[Baconeggcheese]

Magistrike Destruction was pretty ridiculous at launch, that's for sure.

Maybe not as ridiculous as Spriests who were outright broken, but it was some massive cheese there.

Ah surrender spriest, the "carry me until the last minute of the fight" spec

[Backtobasics]

Demonic cirkel needs to be redisigned to work like voidelf teleport thats what we need

[Lucrece]

Demonic cirkel needs to be redisigned to work like voidelf teleport thats what we need

No it doesn't. The void elf racial sucks ass;what are you even talking about?

[Deleted]

So...

Stating my legitimate concerns is doomsaying?

I played on the beta PvP server with ilvl 366, I didn't see any improvement in fact chaos bolt was hitting for 19k on people that had 130k HP? On live I hit for 5-6k on people with 20k hp?

DMG scales more than HP.

At the beginning of Legion people did 200k dps, at the end 3 million dps.

HP did not increase by 15 fold.

[Xorn]

I have been playing the game too long to take doomsaying seriously anymore.

I've yet to play an xpac where warlock didn't have at least 1 top tier spec. I've no reason to believe this xpac will be any different. I could really care less about prepatch numbers.

This, so hard.

Every xpac (except for MAYBE Wrath) lock has had at least one top level spec every tier. It might not be the same spec every tier, but at least we don't have an artifact locking us into a spec for the entire expansion

[Aydinx2]

>Permanently swap over to Warlock from Priest
>No longer a lame drain on affliction but shadowbolt back (the OG warlock spell)
>Demonology is cool with summoning an entire army of imps to attack your target
>Even destruction is finally playable and fun and no longer just a fire-mage copy
>I'm really enjoying the entire class and every spec feels fun to play
>See this thread

What did I step into?

[Xorn]

What did I step into?

The right class.

[Baconeggcheese]

>Even destruction is finally playable and fun and no longer just a fire-mage copy

What changed to make you feel that way?

>See this thread

What did I step into?

Typical doomsaying you see with every class, locks are especially adept at it.

[Beet]

i thought we were going to have a good conversation then I realize we are talking about PVP. Thats like complaining about the blitzball minigame in final fantasy 10

Man that blitzball shit is fucked. The first match for story is extremely difficult unless you have Jecht Shot or cheat the game. Then the other games are all piss easy. It’s like wow thanks Square for making the only match that matters near impossible for first time players. Then you gotta do all the easy matches for Wakkas weapon. Oh jeez that isn’t what this topic is about is it?

Oh yeah PVP, something no ones given a fuck about since sometime around Cata.

[CuchuCachu]

Class was a tiny bit under tuned at launch, I was still doing competitive damage and pulling my weight at the time.

It especially didn't hurt that I had magistrike restraints, as any time there was 2 targets it was outright OP.

more than a tiny bit undertuned. Destro was only half-way viable and that was the best one for most content thanks to the exceptional cleave you describe.

I mean, if wanting one spec that's viable is the standard then yea, we had no real issues. But this isnt Classic WoW and other classes dont have to make that choice any longer unless they want to be on the cutting edge. Now it's far closer to the reverse, there will be 1 spec which isnt viable.

But the point stands that people said we'd be totally fine at max level then, called people having issues Doomsayers, and ended up being spectacularly wrong only to be bailed out by those same doomsayers making Blizzard's life a headache.

Now I dont think Locks are in a bad state now like I feared during the Legion pre-patch, but I will always remain unmoved by "wait until max level" due to the above experience or "this is just pvp" since Sub Rogues and Frost Mages are in demand for Mythic Plus... especially when it's the same people as last time lol

>Permanently swap over to Warlock from Priest
>No longer a lame drain on affliction but shadowbolt back (the OG warlock spell)
>Demonology is cool with summoning an entire army of imps to attack your target
>Even destruction is finally playable and fun and no longer just a fire-mage copy
>I'm really enjoying the entire class and every spec feels fun to play
>See this thread

What did I step into?

Drain Soul baseline was better, unpopular opinion I guess. Best filler was Pandaland Malefic Grasp w/ Drain Soul sniping low health mobs

Shadow Bolt coming back is like an omen that we are returning to being a spec which thrives pretty much in ST and Sustained Multidotting (neither being that common compared to "nuke the add or adds" fights).

Legion had a good system by allowing us to get passive and not-so-passive benefits from killing mobs. They went overboard with the modifiers but that design was great.

[Baconeggcheese]

more than a tiny bit undertuned. Destro was only half-way viable and that was the best one for most content thanks to the exceptional cleave you describe.

This isn't true at all, all 3 specs were pulling good numbers. Yes even aff when it was supposed to be hot garbage, there were still players pulling solid numbers with the spec doing more than your average player playing the FOTM specs (it just took a lot of effort).

Destro was strong any time there was a 2nd target, and outright OP easily meter topping if magistrikes were involved. That's a far cry from "half way viable". The only time I felt weak as a destro lock was in patchwerk encounters, and the only time that was relevant was on guarm... and I still did the fight as destro because the mechanics were still more important and I was able to pull enough dps.

I mean, if wanting one spec that's viable is the standard then yea, we had no real issues. But this isnt Classic WoW and other classes dont have to make that choice any longer unless they want to be on the cutting edge. Now it's far closer to the reverse, there will be 1 spec which isnt viable.

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me, as you're using the word viable and then saying others only worry about this on the cutting edge.

There's a massive gaping chasm between what is "viable" and what is "cutting edge". Every spec in the game is "viable" when you exclude cutting edge content. Frankly every spec in the game is viable for mythic progression as well, and "viability" really only comes into question when you're pushing mythic very early and you aren't out gearing content. And even then the content isn't that unforgiving that you can't bring things that are technically sub-optimal a lot of the time.

So what is "viable" to you? Cause the way you say this doesn't make much sense to me.

But the point stands that people said we'd be totally fine at max level then, called people having issues Doomsayers, and ended up being spectacularly wrong only to be bailed out by those same doomsayers making Blizzard's life a headache.

Considering what content I was doing and what I was achieving at the time all that doomsaying was going on, I never exactly felt bailed out. I and my peers were doing just fine.

My concerns were (and still are) more mechanical, and came down to fun as opposed to numbers. Most of the community is more concerned with numbers than anything else.

I mean, have you been paying attention to the posts surrounding demo since the beta? The spec was beloved on there while it was overtuned, people were drooling all over it and it was poised to be super FOTM. Blizzard nerfs it (probably to prevent excessive fotm rerolling for 1 spec forcing them back into the legion aff position) and all of a sudden people are saying how awful the spec is and plays.

The community is fickle and cares more about overall meters than healthy / fun mechanics. Something being "good" or "viable" to the community at large tends to be synonymous with "overpowered" otherwise its not "viable".

Now I dont think Locks are in a bad state now like I feared during the Legion pre-patch, but I will always remain unmoved by "wait until max level" due to the above experience or "this is just pvp" since Sub Rogues and Frost Mages are in demand for Mythic Plus... especially when it's the same people as last time lol

Personally its not a "wait till max level" thing for me, its a "they've literally never left the class in a state that didn't allow me to be competitive during high end mythic progression so I am not concerned" kind of thing.

They always do a tuning pass for prepatch coupled with under tuned bosses and maxed out gear and you always see really awkward balance. They then continue to do more tuning as we head into the raids. Its just never made sense to me how anyone who's been playing the game for more than 1 xpac has any real concerns at this stage.


I get people voicing concerns, its the people who think the class isn't going to be competitive that I call "doomsayers".

[pahbi]

World of Warcraft is about 14 years old.

After 14 years of doing working on WoW, and considering the budget and talent they have working for them, Blizz should have stuff working pretty much right out of the box.

At this point, you'd think Blizzes tracking tools and data analysis tools would be so sophisticated that they could have every spec comparable to every other spec to within 1-2%, and we wouldn't be seeing these wide shifts in tuning. People shouldn't have to wait 6 months after an expansion releases just to have their class fixed.

Given how long it takes Blizz to balance the classes, Blizz should advertise BFA as, 'Release Date: Aug 14th. Balance Date Dec 14th'.

Anyways, the OP's original question was (to paraphase) "Why bet on level 120"

The answer is... I have no idea.

Certainly the game changes at level 120. Raids kick in, gear gets better, stats get higher, but I think what people are really saying is Blizz is unable to get classes balanced and working until lots people play the classes in raids and mythics and stuff.

- P

[Noxinator]

No it doesn't. The void elf racial sucks ass;what are you even talking about?

Exactly how does it suck ass? I use it often in both pve and pvp to great effect. I love having a rather unique movement ability. The only change I would like to see is a shorter cooldown


And BaconEggCheese - thank you for being a voice of reason on these forums amongst all the people claiming the sky is falling

[Gaidax]

Exactly how does it suck ass? I use it often in both pve and pvp to great effect. I love having a rather unique movement ability. The only change I would like to see is a shorter cooldown

It does not suck ass yes, but it is definitely inferior to Demonic Circle in just about every way imaginable except for one - if you were not prepared at all.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, have you been paying attention to the posts surrounding demo since the beta? The spec was beloved on there while it was overtuned, people were drooling all over it and it was poised to be super FOTM. Blizzard nerfs it (probably to prevent excessive fotm rerolling for 1 spec forcing them back into the legion aff position) and all of a sudden people are saying how awful the spec is and plays.

Yes, the usual. Every single fucking time really.

[Noxinator]

It does not suck ass yes, but it is definitely inferior to Demonic Circle in just about every way imaginable except for one - if you were not prepared at all.

Oh yea it is not even close to Demonic Circle, but it is great in combination with that and our Gateway. I was not comparing it to Demonic Circle, just pointing out that it is a quite nice ability

- - - Updated - - -

[iggyMG]

>Permanently swap over to Warlock from Priest
>No longer a lame drain on affliction but shadowbolt back (the OG warlock spell)
>Demonology is cool with summoning an entire army of imps to attack your target
>Even destruction is finally playable and fun and no longer just a fire-mage copy
>I'm really enjoying the entire class and every spec feels fun to play
>See this thread

What did I step into?

mmo-champion- where everyone is an expect and every class sucks.

[Deleted]

Hope dies hard