Who could be a new Forsaken Leader?

[Magnagarde]

Calia will work only as an Alliance allied race undead offshoot. Undead lightforged Faol and Uther could join her.

Nathanos is the obvious pick here. It looked like he genuinely regretted having to plaguebomb the entirety of Lordaeron's Capital City.

[ZazuuPriest]

dont need a new leader the dark lady has everything under control

[Hitei]

The few that went to the meeting were a minority, freaks among their kin to begin with. The light did not save the Forsaken. Furthermore, the best paladin of royal blood was the one to kill and curse them all. And then, guess what - the light pains and burns the undead. Faol is an exception, again, he is a freak.

You don't know the Forsaken. They are grim, cynical, pragmatic people, unburdened by morality, forsaken by humans and light. And you want to shove a goody two-shoes priest onto the throne? Well... That could work. She could become a perfect oblivious marionette for the real rulers, like Nathanos, Belmont, Lydon, and Faranell.

Yeah man, "T-those are the exception to the Forsaken! Just look at all these people that report directly to Sylvanas!"

You do realize how the Desolate Council was founded in the first place right? It was Vellcinda meeting a regular Forsaken who was concerned about if it's really the right choice to keep pursuing more ways to stay alive, and then continuing to meet others who felt the same. From the regular population of the Forsaken. The Desolate Council's most important group are the people who go out every day and meet with anyone from the Forsaken who has questions, comments or criticisms. It is made very clear during the service for the Forsaken who died in the war against the Legion that she and the council are fairly well liked. She makes jokes and they laugh.

The handful of top commanders, Nathanos (lol, why would you even look at Nathanos to gauge the Forsaken, they guy spent most of his time alone in the Plaguelands not interacting with them prior to Cata), and the top end of the Apothecaries are not the regular citizens of the forsaken, who are a lot more likely to follow their princess than a guy who doesn't give a shit about anything but what Sylvanas says, the leader of the Forsaken assassin's guild, the leader of the RAS, and an apothecary who spent the majority of his time in Hillsbrad.

[Skirdus]

Lilian would make a better leader than Sylvanas solely because she's an actual forsaken and not some elven barbie doll pretending she knows what it's like to suffer from rot and decay.

[Leyre]

Voss as a Forsaken leader would be as stupid as having the alliance being lead by a child.... oh wait

[Jastall]

What do you expect? The Alliance and the "nice Horde" have been drinking each others kool-aid. All of them think this is MoP 2.0, not one would even consider there's something else going on or much less, consider that there might not be need to change the Forsaken leader.

I mean the alternative to Mists 2.0 is either the Horde keeping a Warchief portrayed as a villain for a long duration (fuck that) or a Kerrigan-esque redemption story (and fuck THAT even more).

There's really no other option, unless they just allow the Alliance to kill her, and I'd be astonished if that happens.

[Deleted]

Zappi Boi will be the new zombie president.

[Hawkknight97]

Probably ether Darian or Calia.

Those are just my two guesses.

[bufferunderrun]

Arthas, without the full LK king power coming back as the ruler of lordaeron and forsaken leader, for the horde. Hahahaha something like that would be just a notch less epic than having Kael back as the ruler of the Belfs.

[Tydrane]

To say that Nathanos is doubting Sylvanas is misreading the character. I think a lot of people are getting this primarily from the BfL cinematic, and misinterpreting his reaction when Sylvanas hands him her bow and instructs him to do "what must be done". In that moment, he didn't want to defy her orders (not just because he's loyal, but because he desperately does not want to displease her) but he feared her gambit would not play off, and that she would either be killed/captured by the Alliance leaders or die by her own hand when the blight canisters exploded. That moment was his fear of losing her conflicted with his fear of disappointing her.

If Sylvanas dies, Nathanos will throw himself at whatever kills her until he dies as well. I suppose it's ironic, that the character with the purest, strongest form of love and devotion in the Warcraft universe is one of the Forsaken. Malfurion and Tyrande look like a Tinder hookup by comparison.

[ChronoSul]

Nobody really cares, as long as it's not Sylvanas, right?

Voss is not a leader she's a lone assassin hunting down necromancers. She has nothing to do with the Forsaken. Keep trying.

Sorry to tell you this but... Voss has sided herself with the Forsaken in Bfa and has gotten pass the whole hunting down necromancers and looking her condition as a curse. She even helps the forsaken to raise more.

[Haven]

Yeah man, "T-those are the exception to the Forsaken! Just look at all these people that report directly to Sylvanas!"

You do realize how the Desolate Council was founded in the first place right? It was Vellcinda meeting a regular Forsaken who was concerned about if it's really the right choice to keep pursuing more ways to stay alive, and then continuing to meet others who felt the same. From the regular population of the Forsaken. The Desolate Council's most important group are the people who go out every day and meet with anyone from the Forsaken who has questions, comments or criticisms. It is made very clear during the service for the Forsaken who died in the war against the Legion that she and the council are fairly well liked. She makes jokes and they laugh.

The handful of top commanders, Nathanos (lol, why would you even look at Nathanos to gauge the Forsaken, they guy spent most of his time alone in the Plaguelands not interacting with them prior to Cata), and the top end of the Apothecaries are not the regular citizens of the forsaken, who are a lot more likely to follow their princess than a guy who doesn't give a shit about anything but what Sylvanas says, the leader of the Forsaken assassin's guild, the leader of the RAS, and an apothecary who spent the majority of his time in Hillsbrad.

During the incident with Calia, only a few followed her. The rest, even from the council, those who had some faint hope of reconnection, chose to go back to Sylvanas. Just saying.

On a hilarious note: what you said about Desolate Council applies perfectly to the Twilight's Hammer. They, too, come from common like-minded folks, who questioned whether they should stay alive (or usher in apocalypse). They formed a big group that proves they were fairly well-liked. They made jokes and laughed.

And you're still missing the whole point about the racial identity. Night elves love nature. Goblins are greedy industrialists. Orcs value strength and honor. And Forsaken are amoral and cynical. They prefer light as part of "blight".

Also, you say that Nathanos spent most of his time in plaguelands... Well, Calia just became an undead yesterday.

Though you're free to disregard over ten years of lore that's been shaping their identity in favor of one side of one scene from one latest novel.

[Hitei]

During the incident with Calia, only a few followed her. The rest, even from the council, those who had some faint hope of reconnection, chose to go back to Sylvanas. Just saying.

On a hilarious note: what you said about Desolate Council applies perfectly to the Twilight's Hammer. They, too, come from common like-minded folks, who questioned whether they should stay alive (or usher in apocalypse). They formed a big group that proves they were fairly well-liked. They made jokes and laughed.

And you're still missing the whole point about the racial identity. Night elves love nature. Goblins are greedy industrialists. Orcs value strength and honor. And Forsaken are amoral and cynical. They prefer light as part of "blight".

Though you're free to disregard over ten years of lore that's been shaping their identity in favor of one side of one scene from one latest novel.

What are you even talking about guy?

There are literally only two people who recognize her before Sylvanas starts killing people 1) Parqual, who asks for her help to defect, and 2) Vellcinda who is loyal to Sylvanas as her queen, but still respects Calia and addresses her as "your majesty". There are 12 Desolate Council members on the field when Calia rallies them to go to Stromgarde. When Sylvanas blows the horn, "Some" are heading back towards the keep, "Some" are standing paralyzed in the field, and "some" are heading to the wall. We know at least 5 of them were defecting (Thomas, the Three Felstone boys, and Parqual). At least two were standing in the field either unsure or confused, and then presumably any others were following Vellcinda back to the wall.

So no, it wasn't "a few" it was literally half of the Forsaken there, and even the one most loyal to Sylvanas still respects Calia.

I don't know why you'd bring up the Twilight's Hammer, what a ridiculous non-sequitur that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

"I don't want the book to be canon so it isn't!" Okay, good luck with that buddy.

[Deleted]

Why not let Sylvanas be their leader?

I dont like her as Warchief, she shouldn't be one, but as Faction Leader, she is okay. Well as much as she possible can be rolf

[Pete]

I think they're setting Nathanos up for horde forsaken, while maybe Calia raises the Desolate council as lightforged undead and makes an ally allied race.
I wish there was a way for Calia to just lead them all, she showed real care for the forsaken and she was really empathetic. But I don't see her being horde.
Nathanos, I like his snarkiness and his voice actor is great, but I'd be a tiny bit irked because it annoys me that Forsaken don't get forsaken leaders that look like them. They always get beautified leaders. An undead high elf that doesnt look dead. An undead freshly baked human that uses the human model rather than the forsaken one. Meh. I want a forsaken, with a forsaken model, with unique custom armor.

Now they've started working some on customization again I'm hoping they poke China's wow team and borrow their undead skins... they've always used slightly different ones (cultural/legal reasons).. make them look a bit less generic at least if they were mixed in (barber shop?)

[Haven]

What are you even talking about guy?

There are literally only two people who recognize her before Sylvanas starts killing people 1) Parqual, who asks for her help to defect, and 2) Vellcinda who is loyal to Sylvanas as her queen, but still respects Calia and addresses her as "your majesty". There are 12 Desolate Council members on the field when Calia rallies them to go to Stromgarde. When Sylvanas blows the horn, "Some" are heading back towards the keep, "Some" are standing paralyzed in the field, and "some" are heading to the wall. We know at least 5 of them were defecting (Thomas, the Three Felstone boys, and Parqual). At least two were standing in the field either unsure or confused, and then presumably any others were following Vellcinda back to the wall.

So no, it wasn't "a few" it was literally half of the Forsaken there, and even the one most loyal to Sylvanas still respects Calia.

I don't know why you'd bring up the Twilight's Hammer, what a ridiculous non-sequitur that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

"I don't want the book to be canon so it isn't!" Okay, good luck with that buddy.

So Calia had five followers. All of whom are dead. This much is canon. The rest of Undercity didn't even go there.

The point with Twilight's Hammer is that you can make out any group to "represent the will of the people". The problem is that it contradicts what Forsaken are. They're not light-worshippers who value honor and wish to die. They're the types that conduct experiments on live subjects, love poisons and sabotage, and hate light-worshipping fanatics.

[Hitei]

So Calia had five followers. All of whom are dead. This much is canon. The rest of Undercity didn't even go there.

The point with Twilight's Hammer is that you can make out any group to "represent the will of the people". The problem is that it contradicts what Forsaken are. They're not light-worshippers who value honor and wish to die. They're the types that conduct experiments on live subjects, love poisons and sabotage, and hate light-worshipping fanatics.

What "Forsaken are" is the Undead citizens of Lordaeron. They don't need to fucking worship the light to follow the Undead heir to the throne of Lordaeron. Just like they didn't need to worship Scourge death magic to follow Sylvanas, the person raised by that.Seriously, what are you on about, and what world of delusion do you live in where Calia is a light-worshiping fanatic?

Just because you roleplay as some edgelord undead character doesn't change the fact that the canon novel clearly depicts the average citizens of the Forsaken as fairly regular people just trying to get by, not as "crawling in my skin" Deathstalkers and Apothecaries. Just like the average human isn't a hardened SI:7 spy.

[Haven]

What "Forsaken are" is the Undead citizens of Lordaeron. They don't need to fucking worship the light to follow the Undead heir to the throne of Lordaeron. Just like they didn't need to worship Scourge death magic to follow Sylvanas, the person raised by that.Seriously, what are you on about, and what world of delusion do you live in where Calia is a light-worshiping fanatic?

Just because you roleplay as some edgelord undead character doesn't change the fact that the canon novel clearly depicts the average citizens of the Forsaken as fairly regular people just trying to get by, not as "crawling in my skin" Deathstalkers and Apothecaries. Just like the average human isn't a hardened SI:7 spy.

Maybe because she's a priest of light, she preaches about light and hope, there's "an ocean of light" inside her, and because she's literally a new kind of lightforged undead?

All ordinary peopke of all races just want to get by. Orc peons just want to get by. Calia for orc warchief! All Forsaken that you meet in game are "crawling in my skin" "edgelords". Seriously, you should try playing the game. Visit Undercity. Watch the live test subjects in Apothecary Quarter. Teresa the mindslave. Click on ordinary Forsaken and hear the voice lines, "beware the living", "trust no one", "dark lady watch over you". Do a couple of zones. Feed a poisoned pumpkin to a man and watch him rot alive.

And speaking realistically, common folk decide nothing. The military, clergy, and police force do.

[Deleted]

I think those regular common folk are going to be real important. Especially now that they've lost their home and are stuck as refugees in Orgrimmar. That kind of situation breeds discontent.

[EbaumsTipster]

Pretty sure it's going to be Nathanos, hence them pushing him since Legion and giving him a unique and detailed model. The kind that other champions like Saurfang (well he USED to have a default model) and Rokhan didn't get.

- - - Updated - - -

To say that Nathanos is doubting Sylvanas is misreading the character. I think a lot of people are getting this primarily from the BfL cinematic, and misinterpreting his reaction when Sylvanas hands him her bow and instructs him to do "what must be done".

He also doubts her momentarily in Before the Storm, feels regret for his new body in his short story and is hesitant to follow her in the Burning of Teldrassil.

Every time he's appeared in a major lore event for BFA (not counting his short story) he's showed some kind of hesitancy around Sylvanas.