Metzen Interview about Fandom and Toxicity

[Lilija]

I wasn't questioning Metzen's message. I agree with you that he is a fairly intelligent guy and I don't think would ever question constructive criticism. The point I was making was the podcast didn't give that impression. Clearly just looking through this thread I can see that point is largely over-looked by people. It was reinforced to not be a jerk in your fanaticism, but the podcast did very little to address the toxicity of the community directed at the people that just want to express their opinion and talk about it.

My criticism wasn't of Metzen and his message, but the part that was left out and people arn't thinking about.

What you have written made me realize that for not liking the current storytelling of WoW I have experienced quite a lot of toxicity from the other side as well. It's not something I cannot deal with cause I have been on the internet long enough but the toxicity isn't such a simple matter. People are toxic when they cannot deal with their emotions and it doesn't matter what is their opinion cause it happens to all sides.

The matter of fact is that people who have criticism weren't given the fair share to fully explore their worries without being ridiculed. And unfortunately Blizzard acts a bit offended that people dislike the current story which worries me as well due to the special snowflake culture that is currently invading silicon valley which includes game companies. Them saying to me that I shouldn't worry because I do not know the whole story somehow doesn't make me calmer... in fact I am even more worried. A good story should not require anyone to do this artificial calming down of critics. A good story does it on its own.

[Eggroll]

I suspect there might be. Tho I would just like to point out that when you want to cause huge emotions that might be on the negative side within your fandom you really, really should know what you are doing because it is like playing with fire. When people are angry it's not their fault they feel that way. And they should look into their own anger before they lash out. But that is what emotionally mature people do. In every fandom there will be immature people and if you are not careful while creating outrage you will get burned by those unfortunate souls. If you want to create outrage you need to ready to disarm it soon enough for it to not cause any serious damage. I am not sure Blizzard is prepared for that if that was their intention. And if it wasn't their intention then it was simply a very bad decision.

WoW is a PG13 video game title. People are not emotionally mature at that age. It is just idiotic to blame them. Or calling them names for not being emotionally mature.

[OreoLover]

When people are angry it's not their fault they feel that way. And they should look into their own anger before they lash out. But that is what emotionally mature people do.

If you want to create outrage you need to ready to disarm it soon enough for it to not cause any serious damage. I am not sure Blizzard is prepared for that if that was their intention. And if it wasn't their intention then it was simply a very bad decision.

I also have to assume marketing considerations went into it (I don't think this is anything like a conspiracy theory).

There had to be some part of "creating outrage" that they wanted to play on***, for more posts/articles/discussion...visibility/marketing, really. Could definitely be a very bad decision if it just turns people off, just from the marketing side. It will be a major letdown if it's also a bad story call with little payoff.

[yjmark]

Unfortunately, there's a big subsection of the players who go "not in the game it doesn't exist, therefore the story sucks because it doesn't make sense because if it's not in the game Blizz is bad for not putting it in the game."

Those folks miss a ton of every story. This is not the first time. Kind of a shame...

[Adamas102]

Well, that’s what you get when you double down on “faction pride”.

[OreoLover]

That's why they spent thousands of dollars on "Old Soldier".

Pretty sure that was like a bucket of water on Teldrassil.

If they repeated that 3+ more times, that would probably have been enough extra story/game scenes for most people. :P

[Lilija]

That's why they spent thousands of dollars on "Old Soldier".

Which didn't really answer the most important question: why Horde players follow Sylvanas' orders? I understand why we are part of the Horde but for me a huge plot hole exists and not filling it before the expansion goes live means the story here and now is greatly incomplete because we are part of this story yet we do not really have a say in it. And yes, I know, it's the limitation of an mmorpg but then is WoW really ready for such a story? For me it will create a huge disconnect and I am not even that much of a lore nerd because I do not RP. But I like to feel like my main character is the part of the story. Well, my main character should follow Saurfang... not in a year or 2 years but NOW. And I just cannot justify it even after listening and reading to countless people defending this story. I am really giving this one a chance but I cannot stop feeling the disconnect. That never ever happened to me before in WoW and at this point the game is losing a lot of value for me. Not enough to quit but I am really considering changing faction (then again it feels a bit like being cheated right before the expansion hit as it's too late for that for a raider)

[Cel]

Having an opinion makes me toxic? Is that not the very problem that our culture faces right now, that anyone with an opinion can be 'labelled' toxic do have their opinion dismissed?

Please elaborate as to how I was 'white-knighting' - I wasn't defending anyone's opinions, as I don't care about anyone's opinions save my own.

How am I turning this into a 'witch hunt' exactly? You claim that 'no real conversations take place' but you replied to my post. Is that not a conversation? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around any of what you said.

Let me try and summarize my point a bit better: the community is becoming 'toxic' because people aren't getting their way. That's fine that people don't get what they want, but the problem stems from them screaming at the top of their lungs about something they don't like and the expectation is that we must listen to them. You're free to have an opinion. Do I have to listen? Certainly not. Dev's don't have to even acknowledge people's tweets or Facebook posts. If they do, they should be taking on the responsibility of engaging in conversation.

I guess in the end I'm a little ashamed of 'Nerd Culture' now too, since people now behave like Blizzard's storylines or Rian Johnson's writing is worse and more damaging than the Holocaust. Good grief.

I don't think you understood my post at all, considering you came away with the opposite point I was trying to make. I was actually speaking out how having a opinion does not make you toxic. Maybe I was a little unclear and forgive me for that, but I was responding to your original post because it gave the impression of lumping every player that spoke out against how the story progressed was put into the category of 'not getting your way' (essentially stating 'your opinion is invalid' and was the entire reason for my post, as well as giving background on ideas and such to prove I wasn't just another person essentially stating "waaaahhhhh, the story isn't to my liking! Blizzard is messing up the story line!").

And if I took the impression of your post wrong, once again sorry, but it was the impression it gave me. It appeared you were lumping people together. We have a community here at MMO to discuss this game. Thats the entire point. But some people act like we can't discuss anything outside of what they personally want to hear. But thats not how discussions go... We don't gain anything from each other in that sort of mindset.

And you shouldn't be embarrassed by yourself or people being passionate about the things they enjoy. That isn't even being a nerd. Thats being a person.

[Deleted]

For anybody looking for a tl,dw: Metzen is embarrassed by nerd culture and its inability to differentiate between reality and fiction.

Can't say I blame him. Just look at the Teldrassill thread. Grown ass men calling each other out like children because they... play Horde. It's pathetic.

And there we go again, an alliance player blaming hordes, Cant we just agree that both sides has its share of bad fans.

If only people could respect other people's opinion more, its nice that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but its NOT nice if you try to force your opinion to everyone else

[OreoLover]

Unfortunately, there's a big subsection of the players who go "not in the game it doesn't exist, therefore the story sucks because it doesn't make sense because if it's not in the game Blizz is bad for not putting it in the game."

To be fair, I'm along the lines of "please put that stuff in the game regardless, in case I don't bother leaving the game to hunt it."

I do think it would be great to double dip into that writing.

[Lilija]

WoW is a PG13 video game title. People are not emotionally mature at that age. It is just idiotic to blame them. Or calling them names for not being emotionally mature.

I am not sure what exactly you mean by your comment but I would say if it is what I think I agree 100%

[Relapses]

I also have to assume marketing considerations went into it (I don't think this is anything like a conspiracy theory).

There had to be some part of "creating outrage" that they wanted to play one, for more posts/articles/discussion...visibility/marketing, really. Could definitely be a very bad decision if it just turns people off, just from the marketing side. It will be a major letdown if it's also a bad story call with little payoff.

This is a marketing team's wet dream. There's no such thing as bad publicity and this is keeping the game relevant in ways that it hasn't been in nearly a decade.

- - - Updated - - -

And there we go again, an alliance player blaming hordes, Cant we just agree that both sides has its share of bad fans.

If only people could respect other people's opinion more, its nice that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but its NOT nice if you try to force your opinion to everyone else

For a dude named MrLogic, you really missed the mark there.

[Socialhealer]

the WoW community is a bunch of morons anyway, they refuse to play expansions or even see the lore/story because OMG PANDAS.

why would i even give a shit what such people spew from their dribbling mouths?

it's like they've seen 3 minutes of a film and because they have to wait months maybe years to see how it unfolds they can't do anything but rage like little children throwing a tantrum because they didn't get ice cream.

To anyone who's sent threats to the devs or Christie grow the fuck up get out the house and go learn to socialise with others.

[The Stormbringer]

Hm. -snip- I'm still waiting for my girl, Yrel's story.

Sadly, they murdered her character arc by turning her into a Light-obsessed tyrant.

[Pull My Finger]

Yes it does.

No it doesn't. Folks like you pick up all kinds of words and concepts on the internet and use them interchangeably, and generally erroneously, all the time.

[OreoLover]

This is a marketing team's wet dream. There's no such thing as bad publicity and this is keeping the game relevant in ways that it hasn't been in nearly a decade.

It would be interesting to see their metrics on how many mentions/hashtags/site visits/fan site posts, they've managed to spark.

I'm sure marketing earned a bonus, whether or not they gain players from it.

[Cel]

What you have written made me realize that for not liking the current storytelling of WoW I have experienced quite a lot of toxicity from the other side as well. It's not something I cannot deal with cause I have been on the internet long enough but the toxicity isn't such a simple matter. People are toxic when they cannot deal with their emotions and it doesn't matter what is their opinion cause it happens to all sides.

The matter of fact is that people who have criticism weren't given the fair share to fully explore their worries without being ridiculed. And unfortunately Blizzard acts a bit offended that people dislike the current story which worries me as well due to the special snowflake culture that is currently invading silicon valley which includes game companies. Them saying to me that I shouldn't worry because I do not know the whole story somehow doesn't make me calmer... in fact I am even more worried. A good story should not require anyone to do this artificial calming down of critics. A good story does it on its own.

I agree with you completely.

[Arainie]

customers have full rights to complain if product is subpar.

and wow is lately old outdated shitty cash grab - a shade of its former self.

so its natural that customers are complaining.

Metzen is just bitter he got fired and they hired Christie.

You act pretty much like the pure embodiment of what's wrong with the gaming community. In every single thread to be clear.

[Eggroll]

Those folks miss a ton of every story. This is not the first time. Kind of a shame...

Actually, I feel they are right. They bought a video game and pay a subscription. The game should have a functioning fiction in it's own right without you needing
to read the books.

[Detheavn]

I like it to, but you have to balance it carefully. Because if the audience gets the feeling they are deliberatly deceived for the point of a huge reveal, they will feel 'mistreated'.

Yeah, people are used to Blizzard having a more all inclusive approach, most of the time we had a birds-eye view of the story, but the fact that a lot of people reacted emotionally to what was told (rather than how), it proved succesful. I'm ready for more of this.

Perhaps they should have been a bit more clear about their new way of storytelling way before War of Thorns