Chris Metzen Interview, New Battle.Net Avatars, Fan Art - Anduin: The Little Lion

[Hinastorm]

No I wouldn't excuse that. though I haven't actually seen those death threats myself and others have said they trailed though the tweeter messages and not seen them.
Got a link or pic showing those threats, would like to analysis them.

Thats fair, luckily I don't hate myself enough to use/view twitter, but know of many documented cases of threats for equal or lesser "offenses".

[Absintheminded]

Always liked Metzen, regardless of the flack he got for oversaturating the game with Thrall.

[Trassk]

Ever since people like Bashiok and Metzen left the wow development and community, its begun to just feel like theres a growing distance between the fans/players and the devs. People like Bashiok were very hands on about everything, it just doesn't feel like current leads and mods for warcraft have the same connection.

And yeah, the wow community has always had that shit to it, people and people, and gamers are some of the worst people online sometimes in packs. but years before it at least felt like things gelled together, the community did listen and talk to the devs/mods.

These days, it just doesn't feel like it has that connection between the devs and players anymore. The problem this creates is the devs now are riding purely on their own sense of self, that they have all the best ideas and know whats best for the game and its players, so don't come down to earth with the community to talk to them more about what would make it better.
This presents the problem in that they could make something enjoyable for the players, but their running a gambit if it fails completely, the players hate it, and the devs then get pissed off because they thought they had the best ideas, and even claims the community doesn't know what it wants.

[AllSeeingFries]

Thrall's Balls.

hehe.


Great listen all around though, Love me some Metzen!

[Yarathir]

Surely you are not excusing threats of death and violence because of bad writing?

Yet to see any.

[Trassk]

Yet to see any.

yeah, I actually want to see this.

I want to trust goldens word on this. The problem today with social media is people over react to things so seriously even when its tongue in cheek. Taking examples like count dankula and his pug joke, or boris johnson saying women in burqas look like mail boxes, people take things said so seriously, that you need to analyse things properly to get context to if it was serious or not.

[Sapphire35]

It’s not the community it’s the general climate that is on the internet right now. It is extremely toxic and I’ve never felt it has been like this before and I’ve been on the internet for like 20 years or so. There is this thing going on that you get swarmed by people as soon as someone dislike what you say or do. It is pretty terrifying if you think about it.

This is exactly how I feel.

Ever since people like Bashiok and Metzen left the wow development and community, its begun to just feel like theres a growing distance between the fans/players and the devs.

Yeah I mean what does anyone expect, right? If I'm a passionate developer working on content and everything I do just gets shit on it how long before it just wears you down? I don't care how tough you think you are, constant negativity is gonna take it's toll on you unless you're some kind of egomaniac.

[Onikaroshi]

Yet to see any.

Anyone like Golden, who has a lot of mentions in tweets, specially during times like this, is going to have people moderating her twitter and hiding/deleting and escalating that type of tweet, you're not GOING to see it unless you see it as it is posted.

[Puddlejumper]

The framing of the discussion as being about the behavior of content-consumers is frustrating to me, because I don't want to talk about that. I want to be able to frankly discuss the problems with the game's lore, and the quality issues they imply, with the creators.

As a result of whatever number of people who couldn't trouble themselves to behave themselves online, we instead get *this* conversation, which is a stupid conversation. There are a thousand percent more people out there who want to complain about the lore than want to threaten the writers, but somehow everyone gets lumped together because the writers don't have (or don't want to have) a good way of splitting the two conversations.

So I guess the only "acceptable" response is to say the story is fine because if you don't, then suddenly you're all for internet threats. Even though the story does have major problems that players don't deserve to be subjected to. You can have an environment that fosters creativity without having an environment that lauds mediocrity, and it comes by way of artists engaging with feedback.

I like WoW in theory. In practice, I don't think much of the game. The writing is consistently poor and uncreative. The UI is deliberately obtuse. The quests are boring Kill X Things or Click on X Sparkles on the Ground 90% of the time. Bosses tend to have very little buildup, most of which is in quest text nobody reads. The game has huge, endemic problems. But one thing the game actually has going for it is an interesting cast of characters, so when they manage to screw that up on top of all the truly disappointing flaws the game already has, it's no wonder people riot. It's human nature. That doesn't make it fine, but it does mean it's a stupid thing to complain about, since the complaining won't (can't!) actually fix anything.

[KajiSagara]

when i saw "new avatars" i was exited, then it was just CoD turds.... disappointing

[morph4037]

The main difference between when Metzen came under fire vs some of the other people, he wasn't afraid to admit he messed up when he was called out iirc. And even if he may have been telling half truths about it, he came off more empathetically (sp?) than some of the drones that just say "this is fine, you are wrong". Just my two cents.

[vinceded]

The framing of the discussion as being about the behavior of content-consumers is frustrating to me, because I don't want to talk about that. I want to be able to frankly discuss the problems with the game's lore, and the quality issues they imply, with the creators.

As a result of whatever number of people who couldn't trouble themselves to behave themselves online, we instead get *this* conversation, which is a stupid conversation. There are a thousand percent more people out there who want to complain about the lore than want to threaten the writers, but somehow everyone gets lumped together because the writers don't have (or don't want to have) a good way of splitting the two conversations.

So I guess the only "acceptable" response is to say the story is fine because if you don't, then suddenly you're all for internet threats. Even though the story does have major problems that players don't deserve to be subjected to. You can have an environment that fosters creativity without having an environment that lauds mediocrity, and it comes by way of artists engaging with feedback.

I like WoW in theory. In practice, I don't think much of the game. The writing is consistently poor and uncreative. The UI is deliberately obtuse. The quests are boring Kill X Things or Click on X Sparkles on the Ground 90% of the time. Bosses tend to have very little buildup, most of which is in quest text nobody reads. The game has huge, endemic problems. But one thing the game actually has going for it is an interesting cast of characters, so when they manage to screw that up on top of all the truly disappointing flaws the game already has, it's no wonder people riot. It's human nature. That doesn't make it fine, but it does mean it's a stupid thing to complain about, since the complaining won't (can't!) actually fix anything.

Wow, a reasonable voice with well thought out, non-biased arguments. You must surely be in the wrong place, not brandishing pro this or that fanboy or hater weapons.

Read this person's reply and the discussion is pretty much over for anyone with half a brain. Well done!

[korijenkins]

I wish what he said was true in regards to player complaints about the state of the game.

It feels like all the RPG elements have been sucked out of the game in an effort to make it more mainstream, but WoW was never popular for being some refined game. I feel like the reason WoW was popular was sort of the same reason Runescape still exists. Your character felt moldable, it felt like, as you played, your character improved. Leveling a profession was an actual journey instead of just crafting the same item over and over again to get +10 on its level. Dual talent spec only made it feel like you really had to commit to 2 specs, but with swapping being like it is now, it feels like you're pretty much all 3 at the same time.

A lot of abilities got removed as well for simply being considered "bad" or "useless". Things like weapon skills, ammo, even ability training and ranks may have felt like a hassle, but they were part of what made the game feel larger. Something as simple as having to take a boat somewhere rather than a portal is huge in my eyes.

The devs just assume complaints are always story based, but what WoW has lost is its mechanics, its gameplay, its features. It may have been clunky, things may have been annoying, but without them the game feels boring.

Bring boats back at the very least. I'd rather get on a boat at a harbor with 10 fellow players than just right click a portal and look at a loading screen.

[Deleted]

There's a fine line to walk. Players have a right to highlight elements of the game and story with them dislike but at the same time need to be respectfully and dignified people while doing it.

[Kallisto]

It amazes me that some people cannot understand that nerfing 2 classes to bring them on par with 10, is the exact same as just buffing the 10, also the community is exactly as it has always been, with small changess that follows the overall trend of the internet.
It is also not the whole community in anyway that is part of the problem, many can easily look at the current story and understand that maybe we don't have all the pieces yet, and even if we do, we don't start yelling at the story tellers. If you don't like this story, then go listen to another one, or hell, make your own.

There's a subtle reason why it isn't the same (and nerfing over performing is better than buffing the rest that are just right). It's that if you buff the classes to the point of the over performers then the pve bosses will drop over and everyone is disatisfied.

[Feroxxy]

The headlines of the interview feel very generic. Don't hate X, don't question Y.

[Socialhealer]

"During Diablo 3 when there was a lot of controversy over decisions, the community really raked Jay Wilson over the coals. He just happened to be the public face at the time."

Actually i think a lot of the reason was Jay Wilson saying "fuck that guy" to a Diablo 2 dev.

and since Diablo 2 had far more heart soul passion and thought put into it than Diablo 3 ever did, the community returned the favour by saying Jay Wilson? Fuck that guy!

[KainneAbsolute]

The people became more demanding over time and they mix with nostalgia. What Metzen loved a lot was when the developers and community can build up the game together. However, each side wasnt able to communicate it clearly.

You can say anything about Blizzard, but i think at least they try. The Sylvanas stuff caused lots of reactions but it isnt compared to the rage and debate about the no flying in Draenor haha

[Torto]

Agreed with everything Metzen said right up to the part of the Last Jedi, then he lost me. The fan backlash against Disney Star Wars is well deserved, and the only toxicity on the Internet was from people like JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson trolling the fans.

[Psygon]

Metzen whining. Yeah, I really want to hear that.

Glad he threw in the towel since he obviously can’t handle it. Sad!