btw did the Ebon Blade get any comeuppance for raiding Light's Hope

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

So you ARE saying it was justified. That's insane.

They never were, not even in alpha or beta.

It's not justified.
I for one still wants retribution for this atrocious act.
But hey, that's all RP

[Super Dickmann]

Well, in alpha and i think even in beta they actually were successful in resurrecting Tirion, it was later changed due to outcry from players and was changed. So it was a viable plan

Oh, I'm not arguing the practicality of the plan. The Lich King has always been very effective. I was more arguing that the fact they failed wouldn't be a reason for the paladins to look more lightly on it, since they were stopped by an outside force.

[FelPlague]

So you ARE saying it was justified. That's insane.

They never were, not even in alpha or beta.

No it was not justified... but to them their actions were worth it, and I can see their reasoning, I dont agree with it, but i see their reasoning, and they did have only good intentions, they felt tirion could be a great death knight, return to the living and fight once again, that is very reasonable, but they knew the paladins would refuse, so they would have to kill a few, less resonable, but illidan has done much of the same thing.

it is called a "The end justify the means"
where you must do abit of bad to do good.

[OIS]

That Retri artifact quest gets mentioned a lot, is that even canon?

[Melsiren]

Yeah, and it was unsatisfying as majority of Blizzard's conflict arcs.

That Retri artifact quest gets mentioned a lot, is that even canon?

closest thing we got I guess, but to be honest the idea that the Highlord would actually try to re corrupt the Ashbringer is more than just strange.

[Lane]

I don't believe that quest was ever truly about Tirion, it was a test for Darion. Bolvar's a former paladin, he would've known the DKs stood no chance at Light's Hope after Arthas failed there.

[Budong]

I don't believe that quest was ever truly about Tirion, it was a test for Darion. Bolvar's a former paladin, he would've known the DKs stood no chance at Light's Hope after Arthas failed there.

Finally someone gets it.

[Schattenlied]

Do the ret pally hidden quest line. for the hidden artifact skin, that is your answer

I can't imagine that's canon... I cant see any logical reason the Paladins would actually go and re-corrupt their greatest weapon.

[FelPlague]

I can't imagine that's canon... I cant see any logical reason the Paladins would actually go and re-corrupt their greatest weapon.

Well we dont know, it is a quest line, so if it is not, none of the hidden chains are.

[Shelly]

Like I said in another thread: Both Deathknights and Forsaken were once living. During life both groups had relatives or friends. The first reaction to "undead" is obviously terror and aggression from the side of the living. I would be scared out of my wits. I would even go as far as to say that I would probably do all I could to "return them to their graves to find peace". But now that after so many years have passed and we both (living and the "dead") have worked so often together.... Why can't the living now just embrace their old friends, family-members back into their home or something? And the Deathknights and Forsaken to realise that when they returned as a fresh undead to their families and friends... it was fucking logical for them to shun/attempt killing them. They would have done the same.

What I am saying is: These "groups" do not need to exist as a group. Ergo the Ebon Blade is a group that serves no purpose. The Forsaken neither. They should be taken back by "the living society" as full members. And thus we all end the creation of new "undead" aswell.

Forsaken have been Retconned quite a bit from their original iteration in WoW. They were never nice guys, they were always the ones on the outside and only part of the Horde for the mutual defense that being in the Horde granted them against the Eastern Kingdoms possible aggression from the south and the Scarlet Crusade thriving throughout the plaguelands willing to kill any undead whether sentient or not.

Being Forsaken used to change you, you don't view people the same anymore. You don't view your body the same. You didn't even really worship the light as it would cause you injury. They were and for the most part still are a death cult built around Sylvannas.

Then with the Death Knights if you do the class campaign it's pretty clear that a few things are going on. For the DKs they consider themselves Azeroth's last line of defense. They know they are monsters and even being alive is painful to them. They have that Forsaken thing where they don't really view people as people. They are outside of the cycle of bodily wants for the most part and all their empathy is just an echo of the strong emotions they had while alive.

Meanwhile you have the LK who straight up tells you that you can all serve him and do as he says to stop the Legion invasion, or he can send waves after wave of undead flowing from Icecrown and Northrend all over Azeroth and into the Broken Isles with the express purpose of shutting down the Legion and in doing so he will make the world barren and not give a damn because all that matters is Azeroth is safe from the Legion.

The final mission for the DK class campaign is that test of loyalty.

As for comeuppance or retribution for the crime of assaulting Light's Hope once again, it doesn't really figure into their math. The DKs really don't care. Their purpose was the safeguarding of Azeroth from both the Scourge being unleashed and from the Legion.

A few paladins on the pyre?

Small price to pay.

[Schattenlied]

Well we dont know, it is a quest line, so if it is not, none of the hidden chains are.

True, their stance is usually "if it's in the game it's canon until we say otherwise", but that one seems... just super wrong...

Come to think of it, did they ever actually comment on whether or not any alternate artifact appearances are canon?

[Deleted]

Guess you havent done the retribution hidden skin...

Its kinda unlikely that the Paladin hidden quest is canon, especially since we see as Non-Paladins at the Sword of Sargeras Liadrin with an uncorrupted Ashbringer.

[FelPlague]

Its kinda unlikely that the Paladin hidden quest is canon, especially since we see as Non-Paladins at the Sword of Sargeras Liadrin with an uncorrupted Ashbringer.

issue with that is then all hidden skins are non cannon and that is alot of stuff not cannon.

[Deleted]

issue with that is then all hidden skins are non cannon and that is alot of stuff not cannon.

Probably they are non-canon, yeah. Most of the hidden Skins are just some random drops to begin with. And we know that not everything portrayed in quests is canon, like machine guns and shit.

[Combatbutler]

I mean, that's true, they did think that was a viable plan, but they also thought making a deal with the Lich King was a solid plan. Their attack still got a bunch of paladins killed without even counting the ghouls they raised out of the people buried there and they only failed to raise him because the Light itself intervened, not because they thought better of it. The Argents forgiving them because they beefed up a sword remains retarded.

The canon of that appearance is entirely up in the air as well, since Liadrin wields the normal Ashbringer in the cut scene at the wound in Silithus.

[Jester Joe]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Walking_in_Shadows - Read the dialogue.

I was always under the impression that was talking about how Tirion helped free the death knights from the Lich King, hence specifically calling out Darion.

[Kithelle]

Yeah, and it was unsatisfying as majority of Blizzard's conflict arcs.



closest thing we got I guess, but to be honest the idea that the Highlord would actually try to re corrupt the Ashbringer is more than just strange.

Never made sense to me why they'd do it...just some people have to be edgelords...look at me I'm a paladin and I'm wielding a sword full of skulls because I"m edge and cool!

[OIS]

The canon of that appearance is entirely up in the air as well, since Liadrin wields the normal Ashbringer in the cut scene at the wound in Silithus.

My opinion is that none of the artifact appearance business is canon, it's just added customization for the sake of gameplay.

[Vaelorian]

Forsaken have been Retconned quite a bit from their original iteration in WoW. They were never nice guys, they were always the ones on the outside and only part of the Horde for the mutual defense that being in the Horde granted them against the Eastern Kingdoms possible aggression from the south and the Scarlet Crusade thriving throughout the plaguelands willing to kill any undead whether sentient or not.

Being Forsaken used to change you, you don't view people the same anymore. You don't view your body the same. You didn't even really worship the light as it would cause you injury. They were and for the most part still are a death cult built around Sylvannas.

Then with the Death Knights if you do the class campaign it's pretty clear that a few things are going on. For the DKs they consider themselves Azeroth's last line of defense. They know they are monsters and even being alive is painful to them. They have that Forsaken thing where they don't really view people as people. They are outside of the cycle of bodily wants for the most part and all their empathy is just an echo of the strong emotions they had while alive.

Meanwhile you have the LK who straight up tells you that you can all serve him and do as he says to stop the Legion invasion, or he can send waves after wave of undead flowing from Icecrown and Northrend all over Azeroth and into the Broken Isles with the express purpose of shutting down the Legion and in doing so he will make the world barren and not give a damn because all that matters is Azeroth is safe from the Legion.

The final mission for the DK class campaign is that test of loyalty.

As for comeuppance or retribution for the crime of assaulting Light's Hope once again, it doesn't really figure into their math. The DKs really don't care. Their purpose was the safeguarding of Azeroth from both the Scourge being unleashed and from the Legion.

A few paladins on the pyre?

Small price to pay.

Oh dear me. I must thank you for the insight you have given me. To be fair I have not paid any attention to the Forsaken in Lore after Vanilla basically. And the DK's well... I still have to get my DK to level 100. Good thing that I now see to have something to look forward too.