Why is it wrong to be afraid of mentally ill people?

[Huulo]

They are both also more heavily represented in violence statistics. Correlation, perhaps

Nope, the statistics don't support that assertion:

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...ess-crime.aspx

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1389236/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...or-blacks.html

Mentally ill people are not significantly more likely to commit crimes, but are more likely to be the victims of crimes. Black people are much more likely to be the recipients of violent force even when racial disparities of crime are taken into account. Also, black people statistically receieve longer sentences for the same crimes as white people.

[Freighter]

The OP mentions "mentally ill" as a whole multiple times so that's what I'm referencing to. I'm simply against OP's messed up argument.

Maybe you should try reading the posts you respond to then. Safol and me both were talking about schizophrenia and psychosis, the OP is quoting data about schizophrenia and psychosis as well.

[Wiltrold]

It's bad to generalize on basis of physical characteristics, yes. It's not bad to generalize people who have a common illness that disturbs their thought process, because, their thought processes are disturbed. One is not like the other. One affects behavior, one does not.

If you pulled statistics on black violence, lets say homicide in USA, you would find that 0.0102% of the black population is arrested for murder while the number is 0.0014% for whites. But this doesn't mean that you should be afraid of black people if you meet one, just like in the case of mentally ill people. Wasn't this his argument or am I missing something?

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._United_States

[Huulo]

It's not just a 'perhaps' it's a fact. They are correlated. Not the strongest correlation, but still a correlation!

Not sure which relationship you are refferring to, but there is definitely a strong correlation between being mentally ill and being the victim of a crime. Not so much between being mentally ill and committing a crime.

[Deleted]

Nope, the statistics don't support that assertion:

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...ess-crime.aspx

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1389236/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...or-blacks.html

Mentally ill people are not significantly more likely to commit crimes, but are more likely to be the victims of crimes. Black people are much more likely to be the recipients of violent force even when racial disparities of crime are taken into account. Also, black people statistically receieve longer sentences for the same crimes as white people.

Well this went in an odd direction. Let's just leave it at this, because it is moving in a direction away from the topic at hand.

[Freighter]

If you pulled statistics on black violence, lets say homicide in USA, you would find that 0.0102% of the black population is arrested for murder while the number is 0.0014% for whites. But this doesn't mean that you should be afraid of black people if you meet one, just like in the case of mentally ill people. Wasn't this his argument or am I missing something?

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._United_States

Where did the OP quote data on all mentally ill people? When did I say all mentally ill people? It is specifically schizophrenia and psychosis that there was quoted data on and that me and Safol were talking about yet both you and him spin this into all mentally ill people.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Not sure which relationship you are refferring to, but there is definitely a strong correlation between being mentally ill and being the victim of a crime. Not so much between being mentally ill and committing a crime.

Do you have a source for this information?

[Huulo]

Maybe you should try reading the posts you respond to then. Safol and me both were talking about schizophrenia and psychosis, the OP is quoting data about schizophrenia and psychosis as well.

The title of the thread is mentally ill. So OP is taking taking about schizophrenia and psychosis and applying it to all mental illness. If you read his replies, he's lumping it in with depression and even social akwardness.

[Wiltrold]

Where did the OP quote data on all mentally ill people? When did I say all mentally ill people? It is specifically schizophrenia and psychosis that there was quoted data on and that me and Safol were talking about yet both you and him spin this into all mentally ill people.

Well okay, then lets say schizophrenic people. The comparison is still valid no? Even though schizophrenic people statistically are more violent shouldn't mean that you should be afraid of them. Or am I still not getting something?

[Huulo]

Do you have a source for this information?

Right here:

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...ess-crime.aspx

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1389236/

[Freighter]

Well okay, then lets say schizophrenic people. The comparison is still valid no? Even though schizophrenic people statistically are more violent shouldn't mean that you should be afraid of them. Or am I still not getting something?

Not really, schizophrenia affects your thought process and as a consequence it affects your behavior, being black does not. Enough of them are dangerous enough to warrant practicing caution around them due to their disturbed thought process, hallucinations and delusions.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Right here:

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...ess-crime.aspx

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1389236/

In the United States, more than 1.2 million people with mental illness are incarcerated in jails or prisons, according to the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics. People with mental illnesses also are on probation or parole at two to four times the rate for the general population.

I mean yeah just because the mental illness isn't the cause doesn't mean it's not correlated. That's how statistics work.

[Dr Assbandit]

A dysfunctional brain in control of a 150 pound murder machine is dangerous no matter how you spin it.

I work with said "150 pound murder machines" and I'd honestly spend any of my given time with said individuals than someone like yourself who is so grossly ignorant and misinformed on mental health.

[Wiltrold]

Not really, schizophrenia affects your thought process and as a consequence it affects your behavior, being black does not.

But nobody is arguing that? The argument is: Should you be afraid of schizophrenic people because they statistically are more violent than "normal" people? Of course not, because it is still only a small part of them that are violent. That would be AS absurd as asking if you should be afraid of black people because they statistically are more violent than white people. No, of course not, because this violent group is an extreme minority.
I don't see why you can't make this comparison?

It is an argument about interpreting statistics, not who or what the statistics are investigating.

[Huulo]

I mean yeah just because the mental illness isn't the cause doesn't mean it's not correlated. That's how statistics work.

My whole point was that it's not the cause, and that the statistics back up that point.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Who's more likely to be a school shooter? An outgoing jock who parties with his friends or a depressed loner who contemplates suicide every day?

The outgoing jock. Someone who contemplates suicide every day is considering ending THEIR life. Personal experience tells me this, because I remember clearly never thinking how I wanted someone else to suffer with me, just that oh boy, I want the pain for me to end.

To even ask something like that means you have zero knowledge and are way more of a threat than a suicidal person.

[Huulo]

if they are a danger to people they should be locked up even if they haven't caused any damage yet

their rights should be taken away if they are likely to harm innocent people

innocent people should not have their rights taken away for the sake of virtue signalling about people with a mental illness

That reasoning makes it really easy to lock up innocent people who haven't done anything. Just label them as "potentially dangerous" and you're done.

[Freighter]

if they are a danger to people they should be locked up even if they haven't caused any damage yet

their rights should be taken away if they are likely to harm innocent people

innocent people should not have their rights taken away for the sake of virtue signalling about people with a mental illness

Even when they're in a facility they can still pose a danger to other people. I should know, I was being assessed when I was suicidal whether I would need to be admitted or not and I had to stay in a place where such people were for a few hours. Those few hours I was there I was punched in the face for supposedly talking behind someones back, same woman attacked me later in the day as well, pulled me by the hair and tried to scratch my face with her nails.

[Chinese Bootlickers]

It's not a great metaphor. But I can think of one thing black people and mentally ill people have in common: they're both more likely to be targeted by authorities.

They're also something you don't really have any choice over.

[Dr Assbandit]

if they are a danger to people they should be locked up even if they haven't caused any damage yet

their rights should be taken away if they are likely to harm innocent people

innocent people should not have their rights taken away for the sake of virtue signalling about people with a mental illness

Those people with mental illness are innocent as well and are far more likely to be at the receiving end of mistreatment than the other way around.

Of course I expected nothing less of a reprehensible comment from someone like yourself . Keep being classy mate, grow up.