Play of the Game: Arthas

[Hubbl3]

It wasn't, but BC was schizophrenic at times, and everything that's come since has been bad.

In my opinion the part of the story where Blizz shines is the little stories. With characters we don't know (and thus cannot be destroyed). The questlines which are only a few quests long have the best story in the game. The overarching expansion or even multiple expansion arcs are lackluster.

Which is why I hope they don't bring back anymore characters from the past (like Arthas, Uther, and so on).

[KSM899]

What wasn't proper about his ending?

Everything.

[Hubbl3]

Everything.

Yeah, he should've won!

[KSM899]

He had one of the best endings we could've imagined in the game. Let him die already...

Arthas never wanted to become a death knight or the Lich King, while Illdian did everything he did knowingly.
Why does Illidan get a redemption story and Arthas doesn't?

I really want a story (a short one) about him where he becomes a ghost or something and does something to save a close one or end a war and then peacefully goes away.

He deserves a "redemption" moment, I don't want him back but at least his ending should reflect on how he started as a beloved prince who wanted only to save his people.

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Yeah, he should've won!

No he should not.

[Hubbl3]

Arthas never wanted to become a death knight or the Lich King, while Illdian did everything he did knowingly.

Arthas took Frostmorune willingly (it even came with a neat warning text). He was willing to give up everything for the revenge on Mal'ganis. Even before that he becomes more and more ruthless. Unless that was retconned in the chronicles or the Arthas book, which I haven't read.

[MikeBogina]

He's coming back, they gave him a whole new model... for just a few seconds?


Anduin talks about him nonstop, Jaina's haunted by her decision to abandon him and Sylvanas is acting just like Death Knight Arthas(cares for his undead but wants to live forever). His sister is also introduced into the current lore.

At this point, I don't think someone in the alliance or Horde is going to stop Sylvanas. I think it's going to be Scourge related and possibly either them putting her down or she leaves the Horde and leads the Scourge... and I think Arthas could possibly be involved.

It's pretty clear that the conflict with Old Gods is coming to an end soon, possibly in BFA or the expansion after it... but will transition into the Voids arrival. When that comes, the Void is going to need people to sell the expansion. I think that Arthas is 99% likely to be one of these characters in that expansion, as a hero or a herald of the Void. I have this theory that the Void is going to have 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse and my guesses are... Archimonde, Ner'zhul, Arthas and... i don't know about the last one to be honest.

[Kyphael]

Arthas took Frostmorune willingly (it even came with a neat warning text). He was willing to give up everything for the revenge on Mal'ganis. Even before that he becomes more and more ruthless. Unless that was retconned in the chronicles or the Arthas book, which I haven't read.

It's been years since I read it but I still recall him picking up the sword willingly despite the warning it would claim his soul, and I also recall him burning down the ships so the mercenaries wouldn't leave. The book didn't change that. I want Arthas back in the game as much as anyone, but yeah... it's not like he was 100% good. Misguided due to all his pressure? Yeah, but that's when you expose someone's real character, when under pressure. Arthas was a good person growing up and was coddled, but when trouble came brewing, he couldn't handle it and flew off the handle. He was always brash and very emotional, and spoiled as hell. There were so many times he could have just walked away to fight another day.

That shouldn't stop Blizzard from writing a new chapter for him though if they want to, as it was said, Illidan was retconned to ALL hell to turn him into an anti-hero, good or bad (I didn't find it too bad.) They literally twisted everything around to make him look like he was doing something good, but the truth is, he was even more power hungry than Arthas. If they can do it for Illidan, eh, Arthas is popular, people will go with whatever sob story they come up with. It's even easier with Arthas.

"...when Jaina and Uther left me... I broke, I lost myself, I did terrible things, exchanged my soul out of bitterness believing it would grant me the power to avenge my people. How wrong was I? Ma'ganis and the Lich King played me to become the monster I became... nothing can ever erase the terrible things I did, and I'm not asking you to forgive me, I just want you to understand."

Cue the blue Wrath melody.

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He's coming back, they gave him a whole new model... for just a few seconds?


Anduin talks about him nonstop, Jaina's haunted by her decision to abandon him and Sylvanas is acting just like Death Knight Arthas(cares for his undead but wants to live forever). His sister is also introduced into the current lore.

At this point, I don't think someone in the alliance or Horde is going to stop Sylvanas. I think it's going to be Scourge related and possibly either them putting her down or she leaves the Horde and leads the Scourge... and I think Arthas could possibly be involved.

It's pretty clear that the conflict with Old Gods is coming to an end soon, possibly in BFA or the expansion after it... but will transition into the Voids arrival. When that comes, the Void is going to need people to sell the expansion. I think that Arthas is 99% likely to be one of these characters in that expansion, as a hero or a herald of the Void. I have this theory that the Void is going to have 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse and my guesses are... Archimonde, Ner'zhul, Arthas and... i don't know about the last one to be honest.

Ooh, if they do a 4 Horsemen scenario, I want them to be Arthas, Ner'zhul, Kael'thas and Zul'jin.

[Captain Kennedy]

He's an important part of Jaina's regrets, and there are now heavy parallels between him and Sylvanas. He had the biggest impact on those two specifically. And both of them are heavily featured characters this expansion.

As for Arthas and King Rastakhan, here are the lines:

You no longer need to sacrifice for you people. You no longer need to bare the weight of your crown. I've taken care... if everything

Do not worry my daughter. I have taken care of everything.

Arthas never said "Don't worry about it". So the lines aren't as close as you made them out to be. And the similarity in the final line I'm going to say it purely coincidence because it's a "cool" line. You see this line used TV and Movies as well.

So far all of the Arthas stuff in BFA has been relevant, whether it be obvious like him appearing as one of Jaina's regrets, or the more subtle parallels in the Lordaeron throne room cinematic.

[SirCowdog]

Don't forget about the comparisons between Azerite and Saronite. Blood of Yogg vs Blood of Azeroth being a magically powerful material pfor building war machines and structures like Arthas did with Saronite.

We're gathering up all this "azerite" when in truth it turns out to be blood of some old god instead of Azeroth. We're actually freeing it instead of helping anyone.

Nobody wonders why suddenly everyone seems to be going so batshit crazy all of the sudden? Who gives people constant visions? Nothing suspicious here...move along.

[Deleted]

Rastakhan and Bwomsandi deal. Rastakhan says "Don't worry about it. I taken care about everything" to his daughter. The same exact line Arthas says before killing his father

From what i recall it was LK wispering to Arthas from the blade frostmourne. Arthas word was something like ,,succeeding you father''

[Zandalariprelate]

Rastakhan and Bwomsandi deal. Rastakhan says "Don't worry about it. I taken care about everything" to his daughter. The same exact line Arthas says before killing his father

From what i recall it was LK wispering to Arthas from the blade frostmourne. Arthas word was something like ,,succeeding you father''

It was more like an inner monologue

[Eazy]

Arthas never wanted to become a death knight or the Lich King, while Illdian did everything he did knowingly.
Why does Illidan get a redemption story and Arthas doesn't?

Because this isn't World of Redemptionscraft.

And yes, he wanted. He knew about the curse. He killed Ner'zhul spirit. It was him all along. It were his motives, he wasn't controlled.

I really want a story (a short one) about him where he becomes a ghost or something and does something to save a close one or end a war and then peacefully goes away.

He deserves a "redemption" moment, I don't want him back but at least his ending should reflect on how he started as a beloved prince who wanted only to save his people.

Maybe Anduin freeing himself from the WoW hell and letting him become his teacher, just like Obi-wan was a ghost-teacher for Luke.


But as I said, there are plenty of characters that need development I'd rather stay away from well written heroes that had better ending than 90% of the other characters in this game.

Rastakhan and Bwomsandi deal. Rastakhan says "Don't worry about it. I taken care about everything" to his daughter. The same exact line Arthas says before killing his father

From what i recall it was LK wispering to Arthas from the blade frostmourne. Arthas word was something like ,,succeeding you father''

It's been many years and people still didn't see that Blizzard reuse their quotes almost every second expack?

[Lane]

Unless it's hardcore retconned (wouldn't be surprised), I will argue forever that Arthas was never good even when he was still human before taking up Frostmourne. I not only don't believe he deserves redemption, I don't want to see it. Not every villain deserves redemption just because at one point in their existence they were an okay person.

[Zandalariprelate]

Unless it's hardcore retconned (wouldn't be surprised), I will argue forever that Arthas was never good even when he was still human before taking up Frostmourne. I not only don't believe he deserves redemption, I don't want to see it. Not every villain deserves redemption just because at one point in their existence they were an okay person.

As far I know he is described as a very kind and noble person who despite being a brat, he is still charismatic enough to get the good side of the people(rise of the lk and chronicles) but he is very brash in the time to take decisions and only got worse when the orcs started to pillage villages but the turning point was straholme so basically nothing was changed about him, just his motivation of conquering the world in wotlk because he though a divided azeroth wouldn't stand a chance against the others old gods and the legion

[Ripsnarl]

Unless it's hardcore retconned (wouldn't be surprised), I will argue forever that Arthas was never good even when he was still human before taking up Frostmourne. I not only don't believe he deserves redemption, I don't want to see it. Not every villain deserves redemption just because at one point in their existence they were an okay person.

Arthas wasn't villain until WoTLK. In W3 he was more like tragic anti hero. WoW reduced him to straight villian for epic raid boss sake.

Because this isn't World of Redemptionscraft.

And yes, he wanted. He knew about the curse. He killed Ner'zhul spirit. It was him all along. It were his motives, he wasn't controlled.

You forget one tiny important detail - Arthas lost his soul the moment he touched Frostmourne. And he did "killed" Ner'zhul for what he (NZ) tricked him to become.

[Vaelorian]

so because the expansion is taking place in Azeroth - (Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom = where the story about Arthas was about) - and we visit places that began tickling our interest in the game that coincidentally was at the time about Arthas and his story...... It is now all about Arthas? And the re-using of this story?

I am not saying there aren't similarities... and yes that alliance cinematic with Anduin opening the door and stepping forward (with 3 guards) is almost exactly like Arthas walking in there killing his father. And yes that probably could be considered an homage to WC III..... And yes Azerite is very much the same as that old god stuff.... But then again... we have had new materials every expansion...

I do not get the "old soldier" cinematic as a reference to Arthas though.
Also "Don't worry about it. I taken care of everything." - Arthas never says Don't worry about it. And that he then uses a line that Arthas said...
Have you ever noticed a pattern about "Unbridled power, unbridled fury, empty husk, by fire be purged and many other sentences.... being reused by other characters? Do you think it is a pattern then as well? Or do you think Blizzard ran out of original sentences to use?

Again... you might be right. But you might also be wrong.
1. Blizzard being lazy (and perhaps indeed uses a few things from Arthas)
2. It being a coincidence

I haven't seen the raising of the ship yet. But not everything that is raised and big = arthas and sindragosa.
I have not seen Jaina and Katherine either. But Arthas is a big part of Jaina's history. Not only were they lovers but also childhood friends.

Edit: Now I have seen the cinematics. And honestly - I cannot see the pattern. Yes with Jaina and Katherine Arthas is there. But as I already explained... this is not that surprising.
Raising the ship... is also as I explained... not that weird...

[Deleted]

Arthas story is finished.

And it had awesome ending. Stop with him.

Yeah I hope blizzard realises this. Turn Anduin or Sylvanas into the new Lich King sure, but don't bring Arthas back. His story arc was wrapped up well.

[Vaelorian]

Unless it's hardcore retconned (wouldn't be surprised), I will argue forever that Arthas was never good even when he was still human before taking up Frostmourne. I not only don't believe he deserves redemption, I don't want to see it. Not every villain deserves redemption just because at one point in their existence they were an okay person.

I don't know if you read the book about him. But it is very clear he is just a kid growing up preparing to be a king and before that must earn some prestige by joining Uther and his paladins (I think that was ordered by his father). What is clear to me is that Arthas is being either a teenager (which he was) or that he was not that fit to have the "steadiness of mind" (I am not saying he was crazy.... I am saying Arthas did not come off to me as steadfast) to be a paladin. He became one anyway and went on one of his first missions.... that lead to him becoming the Lich King.

Arthas loved his horse Invincible (the story is pretty great imo) and mourned heavily when it died. (by his own hand to end his suffering)
Arthas loved Jaina too. And she him. Meanwhile Mr Kael'thas was jealous of Arthas.

But for the rest in no way does the book conclude that Arthas is a bad egg nor a very good one. Irrc Arthas was also very relieved the light deemed him worthy at the ceremony to become a paladin. He was full of doubt. Atleast this to me means he wanted to be/do good and earn the prestige he was told to go get.

[Lane]

Arthas wasn't villain until WoTLK. In W3 he was more like tragic anti hero. WoW reduced him to straight villian for epic raid boss sake.

I understand that's how some view him. I was genuinely surprised the first time I started reading people's love and admiration for pre-LK Arthas because, to me, he always came across as self-centered, self-righteous, disrespectful, etc. I never found anything likeable about his character and the choices he made were not ones I'd associate with a 'good' person either, in fact, I felt they were largely made in his own self interest. His whole pursuit of Mal'ganis for vengeance seemed more about his wounded ego than anything else. Even his death scene in ICC, absolutely no regret expressed, "is it over" made it sound like it was still all about him.

Arthas loved his horse Invincible (the story is pretty great imo) and mourned heavily when it died.

I swear I read somewhere he was cautioned against riding Invincible in the snowstorm and did it anyway, but I can't find the source (if it exists).

[Vaelorian]

I swear I read somewhere he was cautioned against riding Invincible in the snowstorm and did it anyway, but I can't find the source (if it exists).

He was.... and taking your fathers car when you are not allowed when you are a teenager is rather similar...
Would you make the same decision? Probably not. Would I? Probably not. Does that shit happen? Yes. Does it happen to kids who feel constricted by their parents (or station in this case) yes a little more then it does with others.

Also: he was plagued with guilt about his horse dying. Guilt can be a terrible thing.

So I am not saying that Arthas is perfect. Instead I found Arthas to be quite "human" and as the book progresses becomes more capable - until he does not and falls to Frostmourne. He is just a kid in a position of power, not being able to fight the scourge/plague situation due to his inexperience. He becomes desperate for a solution as he cares deeply about his people.

I will to this day defend the decision Arthas made with Stratholme. Factoring in that we all do not know if there was more time to investigate more options... The game itself is inconclusive aswell.... storywise (as the game shows us) the villagers turn rather quickly and thus make Arthas's decision a good one.
But we also need to "built a base". And this stuff does not happen in mere seconds in real life. So... would we have had time? Or was Arthas's his force large enough already to deal with Stratholme aswell as Mal'Ganis?

We do not know. So I chose to accept the fact that there was not enough time (even though Arthas could not have known beforehand that there was not).