Vengeance boring? what happened?

[Kvistor]

A soul cleave without several souls feels like a total waste of time.

I'd rather have more expensive soul cleaves that do significant healing and damage than this current overload of pain where you're casting multiple soul cleaves without souls.

What about when using the talent Void Reaver? Makes Soul Cleave a little more meningfull to use?

[Lucrece]

What about when using the talent Void Reaver? Makes Soul Cleave a little more meningfull to use?

A talent should be a complement, not something that actually makes the ability feel good.

Even then, on higher keys I fully expect Last Resort to be the go to choice.

[Zorachus]

I like Vengeance so far and BFA I'm only level 111 2 starting off and the new expansion but I just cannot die I could take on 30 creatures at once and not worry about dying it's the best feeling.

I'll never go back to Havoc spec after this

[pay928]

I like Vengeance so far and BFA I'm only level 111 2 starting off and the new expansion but I just cannot die I could take on 30 creatures at once and not worry about dying it's the best feeling.

I'll never go back to Havoc spec after this

If your ilvl is high, you can do the same as havoc as demonic. Mythic raid gear lasts until 116, LFR/Darkshore gear lasts until 113/114 so nothing should be hard the first level or 2.

[JaoStar]

I tanked my first dungeon yesterday and it did feel a bit gutted. I’m not sure why thoughts it’s been awhile since I last tanked with vengeance.

[Schmilblick]

don't worry, most classes are extremely boring and stale, not only Dh.

[Saverem]

I find it about the same as in Legion. I got SB and Fracture.

Abilities I use on rotation: SB, Fracture, Immo, SC, Infernal Strike, Sigil and sometimes Throw Glaive.

I find it less boring than my BrM that is basically just BoS/TP/KS/BoF and sometimes RJW if I have talent.

[Blightrose]

I like my DH tank, I dont feel bored at all.

[Rufio]

I really like the azerite traits, Essence Sever & Cycle of Binding are great.

[MookieRah]

After playing more Vengeance I simply don’t understand how Vengeance could feel more boring than Legion. The biggest changes come in the form of how fracture and spirit bomb work, in that fracture is a builder and sb costs pain. Asside from that the rotation feels similar enough, and I actually use throw glaive and soul cleave now unlike before. I also have to think a bit more about survival than before due to tank sustain being nerfed, but that isn’t a fault with Vengeance as every tank was hit with that.

Overall I press more buttons and make more decisions between doing more dps or being more defensive than in Legion. The crazy aoe dps is still there too.

[funf]

Fracture having charges feels wrong to me. I have adapted my playstyle to that, but it bothers me. I don't find the other talent on that row attractive.
We don't have any proc in our spec, so the rotation is really predictable. I have time to use throw glave.
Pain is easy to generate, but is also easily spend. Soul fragment are more a resource than pain.

I like some of the effect on azerite armor, but they don't really change anything gameplay wise.

[Rufio]

Fracture having charges feels wrong to me. I have adapted my playstyle to that, but it bothers me. I don't find the other talent on that row attractive.
We don't have any proc in our spec, so the rotation is really predictable. I have time to use throw glave.
Pain is easy to generate, but is also easily spend. Soul fragment are more a resource than pain.

I like some of the effect on azerite armor, but they don't really change anything gameplay wise.

Fracture having charges is actually great since it gives you more control over souls and souls are not only dmg via sb they are also health. So you can time your healing much better than before.
Reducing your sigl cd doesn't dramatically change your gameplay but it adds a layer.

I've to agree on SC it's to weak and devalues pain by a lot.

[Melsiren]

Fracture having charges is actually great since it gives you more control over souls and souls are not only dmg via sb they are also health. So you can time your healing much better than before.
Reducing your sigl cd doesn't dramatically change your gameplay but it adds a layer.

I've to agree on SC it's to weak and devalues pain by a lot.

Pretty much, Pain feels like it has minimum at best value at the moment. I actually like the new fracture more than the old one, but now that we have no offensive move that spends pain with out consuming souls it feels like there is a massive void in our tool kit. Warriors have Revenge, and Druids have Maul it would be nice if VDH got a fire based move to continue our class fantasy of incinerating our foes.

I can't imagine how it feels to play with out SB or fracture and only having SC as the -only- way to spend pain in the baseline toolkit. I guess I question the point of a resource that only has one thing you can spend it on.

[MookieRah]

I actually like the new fracture more than the old one, but now that we have no offensive move that spends pain with out consuming souls it feels like there is a massive void in our tool kit. Warriors have Revenge, and Druids have Maul it would be nice if VDH got a fire based move to continue our class fantasy of incinerating our foes.

Not to mention having a fire based offensive move would make Charred Flesh a better option. Right now it's extremely devalued. Personally they should combine that talent with Burning Alive. As it stands the only reason you would ever take Charred Flesh is if you are taking it, and you'd only do that if you didn't care about your survival at all.

Honestly, I think the 108 row sucks hard too. It'd be nice to have usable talents in place of Fel Devastation and Gluttony. Perhaps a talent that modifies Soul Cleave to do fire damage and/or increase the damage/healing and/or add an absorb shield, making it the go to single target talent that this spec needs.

It'd also be great if gluttony worked off of procs; however, you choose when to use the proc. Suddenly the talent would be pretty strong, as you could bank the proc and use it when you need it. It would be far, far more reliable.

[notawizard]

I might be the only one, but i really like the VDH playstyle when NOT taking Spirit Bomb. Of course i still take it now because of the insane DPS but yeah personally i'd love to see SB nerfed to the ground.

The reason i don't like spirit bomb is because sometimes you have to move and accidentally walk over one of your souls essentially wasting tons of DPS, whereas walking over souls when not talented into spirit bomb does nothing but heal you for a small amount. This leaves more room for movement, kiting, sigils, pain-pooling for damage spikes, etc. Youknow, tanking stuff instead of being a durable DPS stuff.

P.S: I don't think gluttony is all that bad though, even though it performs way worse than SB it procs quite often, makes you a lot tankier during it and overall has cool visuals

[Deleted]

The way pain is currently used is really poorly thought it, I think it's by far the worst designed aspect of the spec. What's funny is when you pop meta and get even more pain generated, oh yeah cool I will just spam soul cleave and not heal for much OR do much damage yeah that sounds good...

I don't think I've ever played a spec where having to dump resources on a weak filler feels in any way rewarding.

[notawizard]

I don't think I've ever played a spec where having to dump resources on a weak filler feels in any way rewarding.

Maybe they should make spirit bomb a passive talent that reads something like

"Soul fragments you consume explode in a AoE around you dealing x fire damage and applying frailty to any target(s) hit"

and then buff Soul Cleave damage and healing and pain-cost so it feels like a finisher / spender move.

[Deleted]

Sounds exactly how it played in legion.

I prefer it now actually. Fracture change is great. Fast paced tank is a good playstyle for the demon hunter theme.

It really isn't that different at all except for the fracture change which is objectively better because of its consistent soul generation

[Shinrayz]

I totally like that idea.

As long as Soul Cleave is consuming only 2 souls per cast it's not a good idea.

[Zorachus]

I find vengeance to be very fun and active always spells ready to go you want boring try a rogue any three specs you could watch paint dry waiting for spells and cool Downs and crap