Restoration hitting harder than Elemental is just... sad.

[Nyel]

Title says it all.

As a Restoration Shaman I am dealing a ton of damage. In the last dungeon runs (leveling) I could outdps two damage dealers. Sure they weren't the best but damage for Resto is totally overtuned (imho).

Lava Surge crit for 6.5k whereas as Elemental it's 5k, Lightning Bolt for 3k where it's 1.5-2k as Elemental... Flame Shock dealing twice as much damage as Resto. It's really funny to see this big numbers popping up and then switching back to Elemental where's it's just: meh.

[unbound]

Part of the problem is that many dps specs have heavy requirements on secondary stats (e.g. Frost mage still wants to be heavy on crit, ideally to 33.33%), but those secondary stats drop considerable with each level gained using the same gear.

I've been watching my Frost mage drop from 30%+ crit, choosing crit gear specifically as I leveled, and still watching it go down to under 20% now (not quite 120 yet, I take my time leveling)...and, with that, my damage goes down as well.

[shaunika123]

isnt being depressingly garbage part of elemental's class fantasy though?

[mkultra55]

Well Resto DPS spells can't Overload and Resto also doesn't have Elemental Fury as a Passive. Both of those contribute to the damage of Lava Burst and Lightning Bolt in ways that don't show up in one big number so it's deceiving.

Also remember that Resto doesn't have Earth Shock which is a significant part of Ele Damage.

That doesn't mean Elemental doesn't need help. It does but I think it's more about Maelstrom generation than anything else.

[meowfurion]

That's......depressing. I love the way ELemental plays, its mechanics, etc, but that is disheartening as fuck.

[Triptych]

How interesting.

I leveled up a shaman a few weeks ago, from 100-110, shortly after the 8.0 pre-patch was released, and noticed the exact same thing. I hadn't updated any of my add-ons at the time, so I didn't have any real data to back it up, but that was definitely my gut feeling. Restoration spec just seemed to kill the enemies in far fewer casts.

I've only progressed an hour or two into the BFA content, and luckily the 2 legendaries I ended up with are spec neutral (Roots and Sephuz), so I think I'll switch back over to Resto when I get home and continue leveling tonight.

[Constraint]

Mm it's a bit depressing, tbh.


Details results:
Elemental
Lightning Bolt, 21 casts, 3 crits (just for #s comparisons, crit rate irrelevant)
Normal hits: Average 2566
Critical hits: Average 6575
Total: Regular - 68.5k, Overload - 25.2k (just for rough overload %) (2k dps)

Restoration
Lightning Bolt, 21 casts, 2 crits
Normal hits: Average 5733
Critical hits: Average 11736
Total: 132k (3k dps)

So as you can see, just from LB alone, even factoring in overload, and with Ele critting once more, Resto's ones are hitting WAY, WAY, wayyyyy harder.

I'm very well aware that there's much more to Ele than just LB, but it honestly feels so bad for it to be designed like this. It really shouldn't be faster to quest as Resto than as Ele, and for our main filler to come very close to healing the mobs.. My iLvl's 329 atm which is pretty low but Ele's scaling doesn't seem very good at present anyway.

[Deleted]

Mm it's a bit depressing, tbh.


Details results:
Elemental
Lightning Bolt, 21 casts, 3 crits (just for #s comparisons, crit rate irrelevant)
Normal hits: Average 2566
Critical hits: Average 6575
Total: Regular - 68.5k, Overload - 25.2k (just for rough overload %) (2k dps)

Restoration
Lightning Bolt, 21 casts, 2 crits
Normal hits: Average 5733
Critical hits: Average 11736
Total: 132k (3k dps)

So as you can see, just from LB alone, even factoring in overload, and with Ele critting once more, Resto's ones are hitting WAY, WAY, wayyyyy harder.

I'm very well aware that there's much more to Ele than just LB, but it honestly feels so bad for it to be designed like this. It really shouldn't be faster to quest as Resto than as Ele, and for our main filler to come very close to healing the mobs.. My iLvl's 329 atm which is pretty low but Ele's scaling doesn't seem very good at present anyway.

Are you playing without any talent or spell or anything?

[Constraint]

Are you playing without any talent or spell or anything?

Huh? I guess you missed the part where I clearly wrote "I'm very well aware that there's much more to Ele than just LB"

[dexx]

So as you can see, just from LB alone, even factoring in overload, and with Ele critting once more, Resto's ones are hitting WAY, WAY, wayyyyy harder.

Which would be great if Resto dps compared favorably with other classes (dps). But its meh, as it should be, for healer dps. That Ele dps is worse shows just how bad Shamans have it in this patch.

[Ozrik]

isnt being depressingly garbage part of elemental's class fantasy though?

This all over.

- - - Updated - - -

Mm it's a bit depressing, tbh.


Details results:
Elemental
Lightning Bolt, 21 casts, 3 crits (just for #s comparisons, crit rate irrelevant)
Normal hits: Average 2566
Critical hits: Average 6575
Total: Regular - 68.5k, Overload - 25.2k (just for rough overload %) (2k dps)

Restoration
Lightning Bolt, 21 casts, 2 crits
Normal hits: Average 5733
Critical hits: Average 11736
Total: 132k (3k dps)

So as you can see, just from LB alone, even factoring in overload, and with Ele critting once more, Resto's ones are hitting WAY, WAY, wayyyyy harder.

I'm very well aware that there's much more to Ele than just LB, but it honestly feels so bad for it to be designed like this. It really shouldn't be faster to quest as Resto than as Ele, and for our main filler to come very close to healing the mobs.. My iLvl's 329 atm which is pretty low but Ele's scaling doesn't seem very good at present anyway.

This is just a test of LB, where as there are obviously other factors to Ele than LB, which you do state. However, you state that it is faster to quest as Resto > Ele, is this a proven to be effective? Is tagging multiple mobs and Chain Lighting/Overload not more effective than single target LB?

[Puupi]

This is just a test of LB, where as there are obviously other factors to Ele than LB, which you do state. However, you state that it is faster to quest as Resto > Ele, is this a proven to be effective? Is tagging multiple mobs and Chain Lighting/Overload not more effective than single target LB?

I haven't been testing either, but just want to comment that resto has chain lightning, too.

[Odintdk]

This is a repeat of legion launch, where resto was outdamaging Elemental (especially during leveling), to the point where they buffed Elemental by about 20% across the board to fix it a, took a couple of months though.

[HCLM]

Ele has too much build in RNG. That is the main reason why blizzard is scared to give us some bigger numbers.

[Nyel]

Ele has too much build in RNG. That is the main reason why blizzard is scared to give us some bigger numbers.

Too much rng and the basic spells are hitting way too low. Lightning Bolt could see a 50% damage buff and would still be weak compared to other classes "builders". Earth Shock has the same problem.

[Segus1992]

Is everyone here new to the game? Healer spells have hit harder than their DPS counterparts for ages, because the DPS specs have other spells to complement them with. Compare the overall DPS, not the numbers of specific abilities, ya dummies.

Not saying Elemental is great by any means, but the same goes for Feral and Balance - Resto's abilities with the appropriate affinities (pre-mastery) hit harder. Yes, pre-mastery obviously, because mastery only affects some abilities, and since you guys are comparing two abilities that aren't affected by mastery, that's how it goes.

[Nyel]

Is everyone here new to the game? Healer spells have hit harder than their DPS counterparts for ages, because the DPS specs have other spells to complement them with. Compare the overall DPS, not the numbers of specific abilities, ya dummies.

Not saying Elemental is great by any means, but the same goes for Feral and Balance - Resto's abilities with the appropriate affinities (pre-mastery) hit harder. Yes, pre-mastery obviously, because mastery only affects some abilities, and since you guys are comparing two abilities that aren't affected by mastery, that's how it goes.

I compare the overall DPS and Resto is not that far behind Elemental at least when it comes to the leveling phase. The last test I did on 116 the difference was like 300 DPS with Resto being almost immortal compared to Elemental. AoE is a lot better as Elemental though.

[Segus1992]

I compare the overall DPS and Resto is not that far behind Elemental at least when it comes to the leveling phase. The last test I did on 116 the difference was like 300 DPS with Resto being almost immortal compared to Elemental. AoE is a lot better as Elemental though.

Right. As is burst, CC, and overall pressure.

It's not just an Elemental/Resto thing, all healers have high sustained damage on single target, but poor burst, little CC & interrupts, and of course super high healing. I dunno if this is the intention, but it's not isolated to Shaman.

[Aquinan]

I hate the CD on flameshock again

[Nyel]

Right. As is burst, CC, and overall pressure.

It's not just an Elemental/Resto thing, all healers have high sustained damage on single target, but poor burst, little CC & interrupts, and of course super high healing. I dunno if this is the intention, but it's not isolated to Shaman.

Burst as Elemental is not really higher. Lava Surge seems to proc a lot more often (this could be just a feeling though) for Resto and I'm chaining a ton of LvB casts as Resto that hit a lot harder than Elemental. Earth Shock damage is quite negligible unless you can chain several casts with Aftershock. Flame Shock ticking almost twice as hard is not that bad either.

- - - Updated - - -

I hate the CD on flameshock again

Me too. I really don't know why this is even the case, it feels absolutely horrible.