Horde lost in the Battle for the Undercity

[Ielenia]

We were talking about War of Thorns, so yeah, I was talking about wars.

Funny, because I thought this thread was about the battle in Undercity. But ok.

[Kwento]

Funny, because I thought this thread was about the battle in Undercity. But ok.

Look at my post that you initially commented on. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.

[Ielenia]

Look at my post that you initially commented on. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Your original post:

Horde has done nothing but losing for quiet some time now.

Then when confronted with the events of Teldrassil, you responded with:

First “win” since the First War, and even that one left us worce then we were before.

Teldrassil was not a war, but a battle. One that started this whole war.

[Kwento]

Your original post:

Then when confronted with the events of Teldrassil, you responded with:

Teldrassil was not a war, but a battle. One that started this whole war.

It’s called War of Thorns for a reason.

[Deleted]

Pretty much. Sylvanas knew she was losing Undercity b4 the battle started.
It's laid out in the scenario to be as tolling as possible for the Alliance, after the initial push out from the City fails.
The Horde keeps running away, blighting what they leave ...
Her plan B all along was to blow it, if the trivial force she quickly mustered in UC's defense didn't hold.


Playing from the Alliance POV ... I would say a very limited number of people were evacuated from Teldrassil successfully.
I was able to get 50/950+ civilians out safely (final bit of the scenario), but you're not meant to even be able to save 1/4th of them, given the lack of time you have. It's totally fucked. Hell, those 50 I saved were only from Darnassus too. What about the thousands stranded in the small villages, groves & forests. Like, damn.
Note: based on lore, Teldrassil has a population of 23,000. I merely think Blizzard overlooked this, and posted a civilian number closer to in-game NPC representation.


QFTT

It depend of how many people you got in your party, you can save more or less.

There is no oficial population recount in wow. Population must be much bigger than we think, or directly we would not have enough soldiers to kill each other.
In wikias said gnomes got a population of 3000-5000, but if that was true, and we kill 1000 in undum with that fire ball, the race whould be almost extincted and would not participate in wars, so add some 0000 after the population numbers that mark you in the wikis.

[Eazy]

Compared to what? "Admit you did lose !1!!1!" regardless of circumstances? You people want an acknowledgement for a "victory" that clearly wasn't, something quite easy to determine once you weighed the losses compared to the gains.

"you people" wtf? Did you ever read the thread? The amount of people that has problem with reading compehension on this site is just too many.

No one said anything about Alliance winning. It's thread about Horde losing battle for the Undercity. They retreated, they left their city. Why? Because they lost the battle, they couldn't handle Alliance overwhelming power. That's the point of this thread. Horde used blight because they knew they have no chances in toe-to-toe, so they decided that if they can't win, then no one will get the city.

"Sylvanas wanted to lose the battle" is nothing but your strawman. I've already pointed that out several times, yet you keep arguing against your own strawman.

So, not gonna answer for my last question? Keep avoiding uncomfortable questions that could prove you wrong. Fine.

According to him it makes as much sense as sacrificing all your soldiers and territory to kill one enemy soldier.

According to me, your arguments don't have any sense.

[Ielenia]

So, not gonna answer for my last question? Keep avoiding uncomfortable questions that could prove you wrong. Fine.

Your "last question" was nonsensical and, quite frankly, irrelevant. "Why would the city fall into Alliance's hands?" Seriously? Is that your "oh-so-uncomfortable" question? Do you have the cognitive skill of rotten tomato?

Infracted.

[Eazy]

Your "last question" was nonsensical and, quite frankly, irrelevant. "Why would the city fall into Alliance's hands?" Seriously? Is that your "oh-so-uncomfortable" question? Do you have the cognitive skill of rotten tomato?

Going personal because can't answet a simple question? Seriously? What's wrong with you?

[steelballfc]

"you people" wtf?

it's easier for some people to put everyone in the same "package" instead of addressing every individual on his own ideas

[Skulltaker]

Your original post:

Then when confronted with the events of Teldrassil, you responded with:

Teldrassil was not a war, but a battle. One that started this whole war.

You know you've been quoting different people, right?

[steelballfc]

You know you've been quoting different people, right?

shhhhhh. we don't tell him that here

[Jastall]

Anduin showed complete incompetence in leadership during the battle for Undercity, getting saved not once, but twice by two OP powerhouses. Gotta love deus ex machinas. Yet Alliance fanboys still want to mental gymnastics their way into thinking the Alliance showed any form of upper hand lmaooo

Maybe if the battle was written better the Alliance would have unequivocally won, but it wasn't. The battle between the Alliance and Horde is like one side being full of badass OP fucks and the other side is just a bit smarter so they can avoid being wrecked every time the two meet.

That was really my bigger issue with it. This battle wasn't about strategy. It was about pulling out one superweapon after another. Oh Sylvanas can glide through dudes and melt them. Oh hey Anduin can heal an entire battlefield. Oh hey the Horde has a massive Azerite tank that SI:7 somehow didn't find despite the city being full of them. Oh hey Anduin can destroy the tank with his sword. Oh hey we have enough blight not only to bathe the battlefield, but to make a big bomb as well. Oh hey Sylvanas can now raise an entire army by herself, who the fuck even needs Val'kyr amirite. Oh hey Jaina comes and saves the Alliance. Oh hey now Alleria comes and saves the Alliance. Oh hey Sylvanas can fly like Team Rocket now.

The Horde's array of superweapons were at least the product of planning (minus Sylvanas's major power-up) which lessens the blow, while the Alliance pulled out one Deus Ex Machine after the other which makes the entire affair really unsatisfying if you ask me. I'm not asking for Anduin to pull a Robb Stark and be a tactical genius that can hide a surprise Gnomish mecha behind a tree near Lordaeron's gate, but more planning and foreshadowing all around would have made this a lot more satisfying and a lot less seem like a bad cartoon where the heroes thoughtlessly rush in and thwart the scheming villain's nefarious team-killing schemes through the powers of plot and friendship.

[Ielenia]

Going personal because can't answet a simple question? Seriously? What's wrong with you?

I don't have to answer that question for two reasons: one, it goes on a tangent; and two, it is irrelevant to the subject. And if you disagree, it's up to you to prove its relevance.

[Eazy]

I don't have to answer that question for two reasons: one, it goes on a tangent; and two, it is irrelevant to the subject. And if you disagree, it's up to you to prove its relevance.

You don't have to, because it would make all your arguments wrong. Simple as that.

[Ielenia]

You don't have to, because it would make all your arguments wrong. Simple as that.

It's funny how you complain that I'm "dodging" your question, yet you see no problem in dodging mine.

The question here isn't why the city would fall into Alliance's hands. The question here is if the Horde won or lost the battle. Which they won. They thwarted the every single Alliance's objectives in that battle. The city is out of Alliance's hands, and Sylvanas is still "alive" and free.

[Deleted]

the horde wasn't fighting to keep the undercity. Watching the events unfold it looks more like the ultimate plan was to make that fight cost the alliance as many bodies as possible.

if this is the case then losing the city isn't a "loss" as it was according to plan.

This. It seemed very clear from the cinematics that Sylvanas was planning to concede the city, trap the leaders inside and kill them all, and it would have worked if the alliance didn't have Rey I mean Jaina with them.

[nerv234]

So many pages in this thread... So be it if you want you can treat this battle as won and end this topic.

[Bigby]

Lordaeron as a land mass is far, far more important than the capital city, which was already blighted to begin with.

The biggest security thorn in the Alliance's side is now gone.

Literally half the continent - minus the easily contained Quel'thalas - is under Alliance control, presumably including Argent territory since they were pretty much wiped out at the Broken Shore. Considering how important land appears to be on the relatively small - even in-universe scale - that's pretty important.

Gilneas is as good as Genn's again.

The Blight bombing at the end didn't do much but shake the leaders a bit since Anduin had the troops withdraw to Brill anyway.

The Horde lost it's greatest tactician who looks set to possibly turn traitor.

The Horde's leadership is falling apart internally faster than it did under Garrosh.

[Eazy]

It's funny how you complain that I'm "dodging" your question, yet you see no problem in dodging mine.

The question here isn't why the city would fall into Alliance's hands. The question here is if the Horde won or lost the battle. Which they won. They thwarted the every single Alliance's objectives in that battle. The city is out of Alliance's hands, and Sylvanas is still "alive" and free.

I'm not dodging any question.

Windrunner retreated, she lost that battle. The Alliance forces triumphed over the Horde. That what matters.
She decided to blight that city because she knew they don't have any chances with Alliance army.

That's a fact.

[Ielenia]

I'm not dodging any question.

Windrunner retreated, she lost that battle. The Alliance forces triumphed over the Horde. That what matters.
She decided to blight that city because she knew they don't have any chances with Alliance army.

That's a fact.

The only fact you stated up there was Sylvanas blighting her own city.

"Sylvanas losing the battle" is not a fact. Sylvanas did not intend to overpower the Alliance's and push them back. The trap worked to deliver a massive blow to the Alliance's forces and to keep her city from falling into Alliance's hands. She foiled every single objective the Alliance set out to do (capture Lordaeron and Sylvanas) and that means she won.